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[UNIEL] Merkava Matchups Discussion

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Welcome to the Merkava Matchups Thread!
Welcome to the Merkava Matchups Thread! Feel free to ask any questions or share any information you have learned about any specific matchups you've learned in UNIEL!

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merkava vs. hyde: 6-4 (shitty dp, cant get in, crappy normals has to play extremely patient)

 

merkava vs. linne: 5-5 (fireball is good, dashes are good, seems fair)

 

merkava vs. waldstein: 7-3 (if wald gets touched he is done. wald can throw you off with his fast assault but if you stay in the air and dont autopilot flightdashing into his antiair you shouldnt lose.  shield his assault normals.  wald literally has no chance once he is put in the corner)

 

merkava vs. carmine: 5-5 (carmine jump C is one of the only characters with better air normal than you. can force you to block forever. whoever touches first wins. pure momentum based)

 

merkava vs. orie: 5-5 (good orie's will antiair every jump in with her amazing..3b i think it is, makes you play honest and block in neutral game due to divine thrust. incredible backdash makes pressuring midscreen harder than most characters) 

 

merkava vs. gordeau: 4-6 (probably the only character with all around better normals than merkava in the game. slide is a huge problem, merkava cannot punish it without shield. gordeau mixes you up on HIS wakeup between wakeup ex grim reaper and wakeup ex command throw. have to sit and bait, wait for the startup of the animation and determine whether to jump out of the grab post flash or sit back and block. best to zone him for most of the match. once hes in range of mortal strike you are in huge trouble.)

 

merkava vs. vatista: 5-5 (she'll force you to play extremely different than most matchups. walk and block. still, once shes in the corner shes fucked as bad as the rest)

 

merkava vs. seth: 7-3 (merkava dash jump b literally destroys everything seth is supposed to do.  all merkava has to do is dash jump b divekick until seth is in the corner and then its free.)

 

merkava vs. yuzuriha: 5-5 (dash jump b is also really good against yuzu because most will be trying to confirm combos out of her jump normals for much of the game. play slowly in your approach.)

 

merkava vs. hilda: 7-3 (if you're not playing a top level hilda she is going to get fuckin MERKED. just go extra ham on her and she'll lose. assault all day, quick flydashes in, etc. once shes in the corner shes obviously dead. bait the veil off once she has 100 meter.  if she does manage to land a hit her mixup isnt even really that good. just get used to blocking until you're pushed out of range and get back to flydashing in. give her no space or time to think about which normal to press)

 

merkava vs. eltnum: 5-5 (her range is bad, her pressure is ok though once she touches you. amazing DP though so you have to be more cautious. still shouldn't have too hard a time)

 

merkava vs chaos: 7-3 (he sucks)

 

merkava vs. akatsuki: 6-4 (he cannot get in on you. his fireballs are worthless in this matchup because of 214a/b. good dp tho)

 

merkava vs. nanase: 5.5-4.5 (her mixup is pretty easy to see, she gets zoned out easily, her fireballs are useless against merkava since you just fly over them.)

 

merkava vs. byakuya: not enough matchup experience

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I'm a bit against 7-3 against Hilda, of course it might just be my inexperience. If you cant get in on her early then she can zone you from pretty much all angles. 214 series is much too slow and gets punished and any other of your long range moves get stuffed if you throw them out. I'm leaning 5-5 or 6-4, its a battle of who can get control first.

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I really don't get the Yuzuha matchup at all, from the moment it starts you are forced to guess if she's going to 236A, jump 236B or teleport behind you and come down with a crossup and with the range on her sword that seems to stay  the same all match, where are we meant to be using this "dash j.b" and what is it meant to be locking down?

 

Is there any way to cover your bases from the start and not get forced straight into pressure and guessing games from the get go?

 

Is there any point even trying to zone her or should we just rush in and try to lock her down as soon as we get a chance?

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If people disagree, why not post your own arguments?

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Because given how early it is for us, and all our experience with the game is from playing other week 2 scrubs, I'd say there's no point yet. For example, someone is recommending shielding against Wald's assault hops when Wald's toolset is almost designed to blow that up. Someone is recommending assault hopping all day against Hilda when her 3B exists, not to mention risking losing the advantage by being shielded when Merkava really doesn't want or need to take that risk.

Rather than personalising our own exact-number matchup charts based off week 2 online experiences or what we think of youtube matches, I think we should start by stating what we have found counters certain moves and tactics from certain characters, possibilities of what we can do to fight them, what we know beats what.

For example, did you know Wald can react to Merkava's 236C superflash and EX command grab you out of it before the move comes out?

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> Merkava vs. Hilda 7-3

 

wut. I think we need to play again. Hilda's AA game is great (3B/5C/B+C/Lynchpin), if you're jumping in for free then you're not playing strong Hildas. Her mixup is fine and every hitconfirm leads into orb 50/50. Blocking until you're pushed out of range doesn't make any sense, her range is like 3/4 of the screen and she has many ways of pushing you closer. 

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All I can say about byakuyaI is that he has a really stupid auto combo into CS into reka then mix up and his buttons seem fast then Merks.

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agreed. hilda can push the buttons from anywhere, and the farther away she is the more safe. sure, you may be able to get in from close range as merkava and if you do, she can die. that doesn't mean every time you approach you are going to win. and the same can be said if hilda touches you; safe, legit oki with a plethora of options.

 

hilda beats fly if she want wit her many anti airs as eshi has mentioned. on the ground, hilda has a variety of horizontal attacks that have variable timings so she can get counter hits. merkava's arm stretch can be countered by her skewer. each player is going to have to play mind games with each other in the neutral in order to get their game going, and the matchup feels about even.

 

who works harder? hilda definitely needs to work a little harder to win this matchup, but she can win this with momentum

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I'll post this here and the hilda thread for the hilda/merk match up 

 

Fly and all it's options lose to hilda's b+c

 

If you're both full screen apart hilda can just wait for to make an error and make sure you eat a skewer, also your long hand grab doesn't close the distance without chain shift so she doesn't need to worry too much except for the ex version but then again she can make you eat a skewer if you screw that up 

 

While yes you can make an argument that she is dead when she hits the corner, the only way merkava can open her up without the fireball is through unsafe means

Overhead is unsafe, dive kick is unsafe unless positioned correctly, if you try to get cute with fly you can eat a full b+c so basically if you don't want her counter attacking it's high/low/throw which throw is unsafe since she can push you back midscreen if she get's a 2a off

 

at neutral it's the only time they need to really respect each other because they're both not allowed to make an error because they'll both get punished hard

Merkava doesn't really need to respect her frame traps and she doesn't need to respect most of his

 

5/5 match up 

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divekick is never unsafe against hilda since her 2a is so slow. you should only be using his 66c or 3c with a delayed fireball after to make it safe and/or combo with 5b midscreen and 5a in the corner (5a will also frame trap her if the fireball is blocked) OR with a chainshift after which leads to a massive combo or a 2a frametrap if blocked

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divekick is never unsafe against hilda since her 2a is so slow. you should only be using his 66c or 3c with a delayed fireball after to make it safe and/or combo with 5b midscreen and 5a in the corner (5a will also frame trap her if the fireball is blocked) OR with a chainshift after which leads to a massive combo or a 2a frametrap if blocked

her 2A is 6 frames, basically the same as everyone else. it's her 5A that's slow (8 frames).

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that is not what i heard but def good to know

 

i guess waldstein is the only character where divekick is technically + on then due to the slowness of his normals (ex hands too)

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divekick is never unsafe against hilda since her 2a is so slow. you should only be using his 66c or 3c with a delayed fireball after to make it safe and/or combo with 5b midscreen and 5a in the corner (5a will also frame trap her if the fireball is blocked) OR with a chainshift after which leads to a massive combo or a 2a frametrap if blocked

 

tell that to all the merkava's i fought who kept eating her bnb cause of yolo divekick, 7 frames is more then enough time to kill a badly placed dive kick especially with guard

All i'm saying is that some point, you will make an error with your offense because fireball loses to b+c and she will get out of the corner because i've gotten out of there tons of times against merk

5a also loses to jump back 2c and if worst comes to worst i can always nail torrent in the corner to make sure i can leave it

 

it ain't as free as you think, just saying 

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tell that to all the merkava's i fought who kept eating her bnb cause of yolo divekick, 7 frames is more then enough time to kill a badly placed dive kick especially with guard

All i'm saying is that some point, you will make an error with your offense because fireball loses to b+c and she will get out of the corner because i've gotten out of there tons of times against merk

5a also loses to jump back 2c and if worst comes to worst i can always nail torrent in the corner to make sure i can leave it

 

it ain't as free as you think, just saying 

Does Hilda B+C beat Merkava 3C > fireball?

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Nope, but 3c is unsafe(i've never seen 3c into fireball tbh)

as i said before b+c beats all flight options

The stronger Merkavas use it because it's safer than 3C and can be hit confirmed on reaction with some resources

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Only character I feel like Merk might be at a disadvantage against is Gordeau since he eliminates any and all air options. On the plus side, Merk is one of the few characters who can play footsie with him and come out ahead. With shielding you can even punish a lot of his stuff from ranges other characters can't. You just can't fly like... ever. 

For me Eltnum can be really difficult if she gets in and her C button lets her fight back at mid range a bit so she's more of a threat than other rush down heavy characters like Linne. She can also steal momentum back even if you get it in your favor with DP so you have to be wary of it at all times on offense. You have the tools to keep her out though but once she gets in, she's a headache. So I'd say its probably even. Just one of the more challenging matches for merk IMO. 

Waldstein is very easy to keep out BUT, if he gets in, you're dead. Dead dead dead. Its just difficult from him at neutral. Wald will be looking to assault over 214A to get in, or full jump over 5BB with his j.[C], so you have to be very reactive with your buttons or you might get cornered into death. Neutral is very much in Merks favor though, as it is with most matches lol

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merkava vs. gordeau: 4-6 (probably the only character with all around better normals than merkava in the game. slide is a huge problem, merkava cannot punish it without shield. gordeau mixes you up on HIS wakeup between wakeup ex grim reaper and wakeup ex command throw. have to sit and bait, wait for the startup of the animation and determine whether to jump out of the grab post flash or sit back and block. best to zone him for most of the match. once hes in range of mortal strike you are in huge trouble.)

 

Merkava can just wait on Gordeau's wakeup with 100 meter, if he does ANY of his supers on wakeup, wait for the super flash and counter with 236C. Beats all of his wakeup super options, and if in corner or with CS, is a really good punish for massive damage. Free.

 

However, Gordeau can do the exact same to Merkava if you mash 236C during his blockstrings/on your wakeup, and even has OS setups during his blockstrings to auto counter mash-out 236C with his command grab super. 41236C may be a better option to challenge his blockstrings but will lose to C Grim Reaper.

 

Basically, because of the options available to counter each-others challenges, both need to respect each other at all times if they are stocked with meter.

 

Best bet if you corner Gordeau is to end corner-carry combo with 22C > CS > Fly upback above him. If he does C Grim Reaper it will whiff for a free falling j.C/dive kick punish, and if he attempts to dash out of the corner/worms, dive kick to force block/hit into worms for dmg > run it back.

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What am I supposed to do once I start blocking Hilda midscreen? Just mash out at the right time?

Block it out, get GRD, kill her later for it. Blocking Hilda really isn't that scary, she has to be really clever to even attempt a mix up. Once you get an opening or she lets herself get hit by 214C(it punishes quite a few things) just kill her.

On the topic of Gord you can fly vs him in really specific spots and the ground game is pretty alright. Merk's oki poops on his options and he can pressure him well. Gord's pressure really poops on Merkava's options though. Like Mynus said, it's a MU of respect once something happens and meter is involved. Dunno how I feel about it overall, but I don't feel bad about it until I block something :T

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hilda feels sorta like carmine but a bit easier once it comes to blocking.  just keep shielding at the right times and wait. blocking between charge 5c and 22a/b is really not that hard.

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the matchup for merk vs atasuki is pretty strange, from my recent matches with some good atasuki players it seems to me his counter beats out the following:

1. overheads, (which he can punish merk every time if close enough)

2. fly hit ( this move shouldnt be use against atasuki at all, the punish from the counter is too real)

3. 5B and 5C

4. 236A

it makes me nervous to throw certain strings out sometimes but this only goes for good ( not basic,not advantage) atasuki players  

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