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[UNIEL] Yuzuriha Matchups Discussion

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Welcome to the Yuzuriha Matchups Thread!
Welcome to the Yuzuriha Matchups Thread! Feel free to ask any questions or share any information you have learned about any specific matchups you've learned in UNIEL!

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vs Gordeau: The start of the match is the most dangerous, because you are in range of all his major headaches. You want to find a way to get out just out of range and force him to come to you. Your zoning beats his at max range; and if you aren't confident you can confirm from a long range battou, feel free to play it safe. Laming it out as long as you can will only help increase your chances. Once you score a knockdown and reasonable positioning, check his meter. If he has less than 100 EXS, go into whatever mixup you want. If he has 100 EXS or more, then you need to respect EX Grim Reaper. The main thing you want to avoid in this matchup his him landing a knockdown. Once he does, then you're head first into his mind games until you guess right (or wrong).

 

vs Waldenstein: Seems somewhat more manageable than Gordeau, but just barely. His assault is good, and Wald's love to use it, so throw out a 5C every now and then at midscreen. His raw 6D is hard to react to, so you just have to anticipate. Otherwise, it's a similar strategy to Gordeau, but when you have a knockdown, it's a little easier to keep pressure going. It probably goes without saying, but always be prepared to tech throws. If there's one thing about him that's more intimidating than Gordeau, it's that it requires more anticipation when using battou. His approaches will wreck you if you aren't careful.

 

vs Merkava: Just remember to respect his hit grab, and it just becomes a reading match. His pressure is better than yours, though still very manageable. The slipperiness of his backdash makes touching him occasionally annoying as well. If he gets full height flight going, you won't be able to hit him until he comes down, so be cautious. Best chance to escape pressure seems to be to look for his relatively slow overheads and AA him with 5C. Otherwise, just play an honest battou game while watching out for the hit grab. When you go in for pressure after knockdown, meaty whenever possible. His 2A and 5B are surprisingly capable of stuffing oki mixups.

 

vs. Eltnum: If she gets you in pressure, be careful and use shield, you might be blocking a while. Don't try poking out too much unless they are getting closer, because her whip will eat your pokes alive. The scariest part about her is how solid she is. Her DP makes you respect her on oki, and her frametraps are a nightmare. You have to strike a balance between respect and disrespect more than the big three. Battou game with an occasional approach while she tries to sneak her way in seems to work best. A successful approach during the battou neutral game can really rattle your opponent, making it easier for you to keep them back.

 

More later.

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I'll drop my notes here after I clean them up, but here's a fun bit of random tech in the meantime:

 

 

vs Gordeau: If he does Grim Reaper > EX Mortal Slide and you happen to shield the second hit of grim reaper (not too hard), you can mash out a 214C in the gap. Yuzu will slide under the EX Mortal Slide startup and counterhit Gordeau out of it. You can't combo it without vorpal, since the last hit of 214C puts the opponent in an invulnerable state, but it's still pretty nice. Credit to tenkai for finding this, haha.

 

 

vs Merkava: If he does wakeup EX noodle hands, you can just 4B it on the superflash.

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vs Hyde: I personally find Hyde's pressure more daunting to deal with than the rest of the cast, if only because his assault mixup comes out very fast and can be particularly difficult to block in even a little lag. Complicating matters is his light zoning game. It may not be super good in the grand scheme of things, but it's enough to force you into a certain rhythm with your battou game. And that's never a good thing. In this matchup especially, blending different types of approaches and zoning plans is crucial to success, since he has enough to throw you off either game if you stick to one. If you do get into pressure, you want to look for his specials when he doesn't have meter, as those are going to be your best bet to poke out or escape. Also, watch out for his DP.

 

vs Linne: Worst part about this girl is she's fast. One whiffed battou can get you hurt more quickly than against pretty much anyone else. In fact, I'd say it's better to threaten Linne with 5C and 2C once you get into assault range. She closes distance fast, so a preemptive normal can catch them up. Be careful when trying to assault her back. She has a DP, after all. When you're in pressure, it's back to the long-winded blocking game that we're so familiar. Similar to Hyde, specials are a good time to look for an escape. Fortunately, certain blockstring enders (like 6CCC) make it easy to know when you can get away. One thing to watch out for is her low C normals. They're deceptively long, and will net them good damage if they confirm it.

 

vs Carmine: Anyone who's fought a decent Carmine knows how frustrating it is. The guy's pressure, even when shielded, makes it difficult to know exactly when you can move. One solid read will put you right back into his blockstrings. 6B is fast, and coupled with some dissolves and 236 series, getting your battou game in can be downright impossible. 421B/C actually works pretty well here, since it's not uncommon to see them commit to their screen filling antics when they've got distance. The plus side is that once you do score a knockdown, it's easy to get your own pressure going. The guy doesn't have much to do on wakeup accept for 214C (I think that's the one where he jumps up and throws four bloodstreams down).

 

vs Orie: She's surprisingly good at keeping you pinned, especially in the corner. I know that it doesn't seem too dangerous, but shield is definitely your friend here. Outside of that, it's a pretty straightforward matchup. Although, you don't really want to tease the outer limits of battou's range. One of your barely whiffed 236Bs will get blown up by one of her charged 236Bs. Pressuring Orie is pretty easy too, because her DP doesn't have invulnerability at the beginning. But, yeah, pretty honest matchup. Not too many tricks with her; you just need to out play them.

 

vs Vatista: I hear a lot of people complaining about Vatista; and I don't know about other characters, but she's not too bad to deal with using Yuzu. If anything, it's just a patience game. The biggest hurdle to overcome is understanding how Vatista works. Getting comfortable with her specials (when and how she can use them) is the most important thing when fighting her. The second most important thing is using that to your advantage. Vatista commits to any special she does, so if you vary your approaches, you can capitalize on all the whiffs she makes. Also, its should go without saying, but you have to be really particular when using battou. All she really has to do is block, and your only real chance to hit her from a distance is during her [6]4 series. Not impossible, but risky and requires a lot of anticipation. I've had more success by slowly closing the distance and waiting for them to make a mistake in response.

 

vs Hilda: Stay outside of normal range and hunt for battou openings, being mindful of her sword beam. Once she's used to you doing that, surprise her by getting in and laying on the pressure. Hilda has about as easy a time dealing with pressure as you do, so take advantage of that. If you're in her range, watch for mixups. The trick is to watch Hilda and not her swords. She always starts her animation before the actual move comes out (even if just barely in some cases). Learn the animations for her overheads, and block low for everything else. The hardest part is scoring that first knockdown. Once you do, the match is completely in your control.

 

Again, more later.

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So aside from what was just posted, anyone else got any Linne experience to share because right now she's an extremely shit matchup for me.

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So aside from what was just posted, anyone else got any Linne experience to share because right now she's an extremely shit matchup for me.

 

I haven't played against many Linnes yet, but it feels like you just have to block well if she gets on you. Shield guard to push her out, use 4C and 2B to punish her if she tries to dash back in with things, or 4B to punish her for close-range fireballs (though this generally is a call-out option). If you jump out of something, you can teleport away safely, as well. Your normals generally outrange hers (outside of very close range options), so you can control some space with 5C/2C in neutral.

 

Slashes feel more unsafe in this matchup unless you have her respecting your mid-range options and aren't at immediate risk of being rushed down or punished. Having said that, you can pretty comfortably trade a slash or a 6a/b/c with any of her fireballs.

 

 

 

 

VS Eltnum:

  • Be prepared to block a lot if she gets on you. Use shield liberally to force her to make more decisions about how to pressure you. Watch out for throws.
  • If she starts the round with gunshot, you can beat it by holding up-forward before the round starts and jumping over it. You can punish her with falling j.C into stuff (not 5A, you aren't close enough). You may also be able to simply walk backwards and 236B her, haven't really tested it.
  • Her 22B is very + on block (apparently +8?), so respect it if you block it.
  • If she does 5C > 5CC, you can hold up-forward and jump out in the middle of the two moves. If you block 5CC, prepare to keep blocking, because it's also very + on block. The mixup there is that she can instead do 5C > 214A, which beats jumping and gets her a free combo (though it's a hard one midscreen, execution-wise).
  • Make sure you know the range of your slashes. If you whiff anything at full screen and she's fast on the trigger, she can EX gunshot to punish you. If she's slow on the trigger, you can teleport your slash recovery and punish her for the late super. You cannot stance dodge the gunshot super, it lasts too long.
  • Air-to-air, you have better range than she does, but she has a much scarier move at close range (her j.C/j.[C]). If you find her jumping at you air-to-air, you can try to shield the j.C, but be wary of her air throw.
  • Reinforced bullets make her 236A/B moves better on block, apparently. Haven't looked into this, but it's worth noting. Her 22A/B moves are unchanged on block.

VS Gordeau:

  • If he starts the round with either Grim Reaper or A Mortal Slide, you can beat it with a consistently timed walk backwards into backdash, and then 236B punish him. This loses to his B Mortal Slide, but it only trips you and he doesn't get a combo from it unless he's mashing 236B really hard.
  • Alternatively, you can also jump back (hold up-back at the start) and wait to see what he does, because the A Grim Reaper and A/B Mortal Slides won't hit you in that position. Make sure to wait to punish him, though, because if you do a move too early, you'll extend your hurtbox into the Grim Reaper and get hit. B Grim Reaper will just hit you, though.
  • If you're feeling a round-start B Grim Reaper, you can 4B at the start and counter it into a full combo.
  • If you are caught jumping out of the corner or something and find yourself above Gordeau when he begins an EX Grim Reaper, you can attempt to use j.214C to invuln and flip out of the way. You generally won't be able to punish him, but he won't be able to punish you, either. This is very spacing dependent, so do it at your own risk.
  • If you block 66C (shoulder tackle) and expect a 22A, you can always micro-dash 5A to stuff it. You don't need to shield. If you do shield, it makes this option much easier and safer, and also allows you to use 4B to counter the scythe slam if you wish.

VS Merkava:

  • If he uses his grabby extendo-arms, you can shield the hit and punish with 236B, as long as you're in range.

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Anything for Chaos or is it super straight-forward (aka. "Why are you losing this match-up?") and I'm just losing to inexperience?

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Anything for Chaos or is it super straight-forward (aka. "Why are you losing this match-up?") and I'm just losing to inexperience?

 

Haven't had too much chance to play this matchup a lot, but the few times I did play it, it felt like Yuzu just has an overwhelming advantage in most situations. Chaos' pet can be destroyed with any special move, or any B or C normal, which is incredibly handy. He can't summon the pet very safely after it's destroyed in this matchup, since Yuzu can literally just slash at him and destroy the pet on appearance by happenstance.

 

The fact that he doesn't have a meterless reversal (does he even have a metered one?) really doesn't help him.

 

That said, Chaos has decent corner pressure and oki, and his hitbox can be annoying for combos.

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Little late on this last part, lol

 

vs Seth: A good Seth is hard to come by, but when you do, you just have to watch out for his mixups. They're hard to follow, and really require you to experience them first before you can effectively deal with them. Like Linne, he's fast, so whiffing battou is particularly risky. Poking out of pressure doesn't tend to work either, since he's normally going for a "crossup" or something similar that will mess up your pokes. You want to look for a way to escape instead. Fortunately, once you get down Seth's more typical blockstrings, it'll be much easier to escape pressure than it would be against certain other characters. Whenever possible, use battou to cut his projectiles. The less you have to deal with that nuisance, the better.

 

vs Chaos: Chaos has good frametraps and oki, so don't just push buttons (as a Yuzu player, you really shouldn't be doing that anyway). Ahzi goes down with anything that isn't an A normal, but again, he can blow through your startup with frametraps, so you normally want to try for it when he's in recovery. Against Chaos himself, remember to respect reflect before you get in on him and keep the pressure going. Make sure to keep an eye out for his special hop. It's very punishable if you expect it. Chaos has a good anti-air too, so just make sure your careful and try to do things that keep priority in your favor (such as an early j2C from a jump). Other than that, not a whole lot to worry about, it seems.

 

vs Akatsuki: Watch for reversals, overheads, and be mindful of fireballs. Not much to say about this matchup. Akatsuki has good pressure once he's in, so it can be tough to shake him, and his normals are good for catching opponents who like to jump away and backdash. Aerial stance pressure seems to be a good way to start inching towards him until you can land that first knockdown.

 

vs Nanase: Feels pretty straightforward. Not a lot to do differently that you wouldn't already do against a rushdown character. She has some fast mixup options though, so keep those in mind. Some of it comes from committed oki, however, so a delayed wakeup can give you a free combo/throw. Another important note is that she's one of the few characters that can easily get you with two aerial normals in a row, so don't automatically switch to blocking low after that first air normal. Nanase's high jump can make battou zoning a pain as well, though it's so floaty that you can usually recover and try something else.

 

vs Byakuya: The guy has some long reaching normals, an air normal that shuts down or trades with all of your moves, a deceptive overhead (though fairly telegraphed), and can keep you pinned with traps for killer oki. Definitely a character you don't want to find yourself blocking against in the corner. Fortunately, there's not much he can do outside of mid-range, so feel free to bully him from a distance until he has to find a way in. Thanks to how his trap setting works, it's not unreasonable to look for an anti-air in this matchup either. One word of warning though is to understand the spacing of his leaps. Otherwise, you're gonna be the one eating his attacks as he comes down. If you're in pressure, I find that it's easier to look for a teleport opportunity than trying to poke out.

 

vs Yuzuriha: Uh, I dunno. Watch for teleports and whatever else you would do yourself. It's a mirror match, what do you want from me?

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Against Byakuya, I just want to point out that his web traps actually drain your GRD away if you break them or block them. It's a fairly interesting mechanic. On block, they take half a GRD block. On destruction, they take a full GRD block, and then on hit, they take 1.5 GRD (not sure if this is true in combo).

 

I checked this earlier today, but I was actually told that they took none on block and only half if destroyed by our local Byakuya player, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

 

 

Byakuya does gain some grd if his webs are blocked or hit his opponent(0.5 grd), and the webs do more chip damage if shielded by their respective shield types (ie: aerial shield vs air web, grounded shield vs ground web).

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A bit of an embarrassing question, but how to deal with online runaway Hildas who like to mash 236A all day long? I know the attack can be crouched, but how to safely approach them and punish them? They're usually out of Yuzu's 236B range, teleporting is too slow and my 236C got stuffed numerous times by Hilda's 236A. I can deal with a friend who plays Hilda like this by picking Gordeau, but I struggle a lot with Yuzu (It was a 3 bar connection, FYI).

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A bit of an embarrassing question, but how to deal with online runaway Hildas who like to mash 236A all day long? I know the attack can be crouched, but how to safely approach them and punish them? They're usually out of Yuzu's 236B range, teleporting is too slow and my 236C got stuffed numerous times by Hilda's 236A. I can deal with a friend who plays Hilda like this by picking Gordeau, but I struggle a lot with Yuzu (It was a 3 bar connection, FYI).

 

If you know they're just going to mash 236A, move forward until you're in range for j.236A, and then just hit them in the face with it and get a combo. Or just slowly approach them and get closer until they have to do something else.

 

If she teleports to get away, you can anti-air her or jump up and air-to-air her pretty freely.

 

 

Hilda isn't scary if all she does is shoot fireballs all day. She's scary and annoying because she has other options to work with, and has a very strong mid-range presence. Aside from her 2A, her close and long range options are not that great.

 

 

Really, whatever you're doing with Gordeau to get past Hilda 236A spam should work with Yuzu, too.

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A bit of an embarrassing question, but how to deal with online runaway Hildas who like to mash 236A all day long? I know the attack can be crouched, but how to safely approach them and punish them? They're usually out of Yuzu's 236B range, teleporting is too slow and my 236C got stuffed numerous times by Hilda's 236A. I can deal with a friend who plays Hilda like this by picking Gordeau, but I struggle a lot with Yuzu (It was a 3 bar connection, FYI).

It's like -9 on block or something, and she doesn't have fast options from far away so just block then dash in a bit, then down back some more.  Or if you have Vorpal up 421B>DD, whatever.  I know it sounds weird to just try to get in with Yuzu, but try to get in Hilda has shit options once you're on top of her.

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VS Carmine:

 

Carmine has an unblockable setup he can do in the corner that is unbeatable without a reversal. It's a choice between being hit by his EX command throw and and trap + pinwheel. He will generally aim to do this when you have less than 100 meter and no vorpal. All of our answers to the setup (assuming you let him actually get that far) depend on him messing up.

 

- For reversals, we need IW or Veil Off. 214C will not work, because he recovers first.

 

- If the Carmine completely mistimes the setup, you might be able to shield the hit before the EX throw and teleport out, but don't bet on it.

 

- If you take the hit before the command throw crouching and they continue the string into EX throw, it will be a gold throw and you can tech it, assuming they time it properly.

 

- If Carmine does this setup when you have vorpal, you can CS straight through his EX throw (it has 1 active frame), but this is quite difficult to time (youtube)

 

- If Carmine spaces his trap incorrectly, you can forward jump the trap + pinwheel on super flash.

 

 

 

 

Assuming Carmine does everything correctly, you literally have to push a button before he gets into the EX throw portion of his setup. You can mash him out before the move before the EX throw (that sounds confusing, I know, sorry). You can shield pinwheel and shove him back quite far and then 4B or jump to beat his re-aggression (basically just comes down to if he uses his mids or lows).

 

 

 

 

==========

 

update/edit:

 

VS Orie:

 

- If she uses 214A > 214B on block midscreen, you can shield the 214A and then 4B the 214B.

 

- If she uses 214A > 214B on block when you're fully cornered, you can shield the 214A and then do 66C and move through the 214B for a punish. If you are not fully cornered, or if you just want to, you can shield the move before 214A and shield the 214A, and then use 4B as usual.

 

- Note that she can simply choose to do the 214A followup instead, which will beat both 4B and 66C, but which can be punished on block (I usually use 2C).

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Speaking of Carmine, my friend's has been bodying the shit out of me since the game has been out. I can't seem to beat him when it comes to neutral, which makes it easy for him to lock me down, and I'm sure we all know how much of a pain in the ass blocking him is.

 

Anyone else got anything to share based on their experience against him?

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Where are you having problems in that matchup? It's one of Yuzu's worse matchups, but there are generally ways around most of the things Carmine does.

 

I'll just info-dump things as they come to mind here:

----

 

 

For the most part, you'll want to abuse shield if he's pressuring you, as well as make good use of backdashing after pushing him away if you're not cornered. If you are cornered and he's running trap mixup on you, remember that you can teleport out of large enough gaps, or even try to 4B and cancel it into teleports or whatever if it's blocked. Dash throw is also legit against trap mixup, but it obviously runs the same risk of just getting hit.

 

You can try to simply mash out of his corner trap pressure, but if he lets go of the trap to cover his own gaps, you're just going to get hit and eat between 4k (meterless) and ~7k (~130 meter + cs) damage for it. Trap starter combos are massive damage.

 

Remember you can avoid being unblockabled if you mash shield on the hit before the unblockable setup.

 

You can forward jump pinwheel startup, as well as stuff pinwheel, trap, and overhead startup with pretty much any move of your choice. Pinwheel and trap startups are fairly unreactable, though, due to the way their animations work, so you have to be expecting it. You can 4B the overhead and jump-ins on reaction, but you have to be on point with it.

 

 

Carmine cannot hit you with j.[C] if he does it from a grounded assault or a tk assault. Keep this in mind, so you don't shield when you hear the sound or see the flash in those situations. Instead, just mash a button and try to landing punish him, or do something to stop him from resuming pressure.

 

 

With the change to the teleport bug, you can safely counter pinwheels, now, without running the risk of breaking your teleports. There really isn't that much reason to do so in neutral, though. It's hard to determine exactly when a pinwheel becomes active, so keep that in mind when you try to counter one if you're doing it while blocking pressure.

 

 

Try not to let Carmine 6B you for free. j.B is good in this matchup against Carmine j.[C], 5C is a reasonable anti-air at some ranges (and 4B works at pretty much every other range), and going airborne is generally pretty safe against him unless he's right next to you, at which point it becomes a weird guessing game of him anti-airing you or just mashing 5BB to hit you out of teleports.

 

 

Carmine's flip super is fairly hard to stuff on startup, but you can counter it on superflash or rising j.A it on superflash. The latter option obviously also beats ex command throw.

 

 

 

If you shield the low spike (22x), it becomes -2, so you can try to do something there. If you don't shield it, however, it's +1, and Carmine can and often will follow it with his DP, which has insane range and is also ridiculously plus on block (something like +13~+15). If you get hit by the DP, you will probably get combo'd. You can hold up or up forward and jump over the DP, however, and potentially punish Carmine with a falling normal, depending on spacing.

 

 

 

 

Not sure what else to say, here. If you hit him, run him into the corner and do not let him out. Carmine suffers from the same problems that Yuzu does, namely having no meterless reversal options, so just doing whatever mixup you want on his wakeup is very legitimate. Safejumps are suggested.

 

Respect his range. He has a better mid-range game than Yuzu, which is why I think the matchup is one of Yuzu's less desirable ones (similar reasoning for the Hilda matchup, though she has significantly less of an immediate pressure advantage). If you're in range to do short slashes, he's pretty much in range to 2C or 3C you, so be very wary about that. His lows are both long and can confirm into full combos from pretty much max range hits.

 

You cannot assault over his lows (except 2B). They are too large.

 

His anti-air is quite good.

 

tk j.6B (air spear) is veeeery plus on block. Respect it if you are forced to block it. It has short range, so shielding will generally push him too far to really use it unless he's doing it early in a string. You can 4B it or backdash it, of course, but the former is pretty much a call-out option.

 

His backdash is one of the better ones in the game, so don't be surprised if he backdashes over a 2C sometimes. It will, of course, always lose to things like 4C.

 

 

Probably worth mentioning that Yuzu's ex flip is fairly good in this matchup, because of the fact that Carmine often plays his neutral game from mid-range, which is perfectly in range of the flip super. It's also useful if he tries to whiff punish a ground or air slash with his 22C or IW, as you can just whiff cancel slash startup/recovery (except the final few frames) into the flip super and punish him for trying.

 

Keep in mind that the flip super is punishable on block, of course, and especially so if you actually do use it at mid-range, because you end up directly next to the opponent.

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