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[UNIEL] Hilda Matchups Discussion

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Welcome to the Hilda Matchups Thread!
Welcome to the Hilda Matchups Thread! Feel free to ask any questions or share any information you have learned about any specific matchups you've learned in UNIEL!

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My quick opinion (sorry numbers). Not claiming to be an expert, but just a quick thing to get discussion going.

Good:
vs Akatsuki, Chaos

Mirror:
vs Hilda

About even, could lean either way:
vs Hyde, Carmine, Byakuya, Vatista, Yuzu


Difficult:
vs Gordeau, Merkava, Waldstein, Eltnum, Orie, Nanase?

Really bad:
vs Linne Seth

Thoughts? Questions?

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My opinions are fairly close to that. I'm not experienced enough in a lot of matchups yet to want to say whose favor they're in.

 

Chaos and Akatsuki are definitely good.

The top 3 are definitely at least slightly bad.

Linne and Eltnum feel pretty bad to me right now (haven't fought Seth yet).

Everyone else seems kinda even, give or take (or I just don't have enough experience to have an opinion).

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I have opinions but they're entirely based off of my own match-up experience, which will obviously change as the players around me level up. As of right now, I fuck up Nanase players hard. Her projectile doesn't help her in neutral since TK 236X avoids it and her movement options are fairly basic so she almost never gets in on me. It feels like Akatsuki. My opinion may change when players level up their mixup game because right now she feels tame as hell.

 

Hilda mirrors suck. I have a high win ratio on every character except Linne (~50%) and Hilda (20%). I need to figure out her own specific options for dealing with her tools because right now I completely lose control of a round if I get touched once. 

 

ESHI'S TOTALLY LEGIT MATCH-UP CHART
Free: Akatsuki, Chaos, Nanase

Even: Waldstein, Vatista, Hyde, Carmine, Byakuya

Annoying: Orie, Gordeau, Merkava, Yuzuriha, Eltnum, Seth

FUCK OFF AND DIE: Linne

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I haven't actually fought Nanase yet (SKD didn't make the session I was at last weekend) nor have I seen any Hilda vs Nanase videos to even see how the matchup works (hence the ?). Good call on the projectile.

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I haven't actually fought Nanase yet (SKD didn't make the session I was at last weekend) nor have I seen any Hilda vs Nanase videos to even see how the matchup works (hence the ?). Good call on the projectile.

wow he really is playing Nanase, what is with him and picking all the struggle characters recently (aba, izayoi)? =P

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Well Nanase isnt all that struggle tbh. I had a lot of buddies tell me that she's a hyde with better buttons haha (which hurts because I main hyde)

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Nah, Nanase is pretty struggle. Especially in this matchup. She can't use her fireball 'cause it's air only and needs to be tk'd which means you can 236A it on reaction every time. Even when she gets in (how is she gonna get in?) divekick is really good against her. Her dp will actually whiff when you divekick into another divekick, which is hilarious. If she tries float gimmicks, 3B beats it clean unless she's doing the float crossup , in which case you can usually just duck it. If she tries to slide in, just confirm that she isn't Ex canceling it or CSing it and punish, 'cause all her specials are really really unsafe on block except really well spaced 214s (not practical in this matchup) and 214C (not helpful 'cause it pushes her full screen from 236B). Only time Hilda really needs to be scared is just in Nanase's 2B range, 'cause it's hard to stick something out there without getting wrecked.

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Good match ups: Akatuski, Byakura, Nanase, Hyde 

Even: Mekava, Eltnum, Carmine, Vatista,Chaos, Orie, Yuzuriha, Hilda

Bad: Gordoeu, Waldstien

Please disconnect the controller: Linne, Seth

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Linne can definitely choke on a brick. She is just so annoying to fight. She fucks up everything. everything.

Carmine feels hard. Orie also feels more difficult than it should.

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wow he really is playing Nanase, what is with him and picking all the struggle characters recently (aba, izayoi)? =P

 

You only call ABA the struggle cause you play Justice :P

 

Linne can definitely choke on a brick. She is just so annoying to fight. She fucks up everything. everything.

Carmine feels hard. Orie also feels more difficult than it should.

I feel Carmine is an interesting matchup. On the surface you're going to have to block. A LOT. That's...good and bad. Remember he will hurt himself pressuring you. His mixup is ok, but not the best. Block him enough when you can finally escape you can make it worth your while.

You have a zoning advantage of course too (and he spends health to counter zone).

So while you maybe at what's normally a bad position most of the match, blocking is even more worthwhile than normal, and not terribly bad (remember you can jump his command grab on reaction to the flash).

Playing around Orie is hard ;_;.

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Ummm....so....that Gordeau matchup. Once he gets a knockdown it's just guess wrong and die, right?

 

Nothing we do at match start is guaranteed because he can hit us out of anything that isn't "hold block." This makes it really easy for him to get momentum early. And since we have no reversal to speak of we pretty much have to mash buttons or be eaten alive by command throws that give him tons of GRD...which allows him to chain shift and combo after said command throws.

 

Do I have that about right? Against a good Gord, I can't seem to do anything except try to block his overheads and hope he doesn't like to use the command throws. Is it humanly possible to react to raw command throw oki with a jump?

 

 

Getting dominated in neutral feels bad man. It's like I'm playing Makoto.

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What's all this nonsense about Vatista/Hilda being even? That's a horrible matchup, and I'll tell you why.

 

Vatista is better at fullscreen than Hilda, hands down. Hilda can stop Vatista doing sonic booms if she's got 200 meter, but that's it. Laser beats swords. Swords only beat sonic booms if you read it right (do air swords against grounded boom, grounded swords against air boom etc.) If you opt to both sit at full screen, Hilda's going to take more chip damage and wind up with a health deficiency. She has to get closer and land solid hits.

 

This leads to the next problem. Hilda's midrange game is of course where she shines. Her gameplan as a character is to sit here with a life lead, make the opponent impatient and do something stupid that she can blow up and position herself in that same spot to do it again. Maybe toss out dagger orbs and run a high/low setup. She can use Invite Hell/5[C]/Petshop Stalactites to blow up shields in this range, but there's two things to consider about that:

1) People are starting to learn that you shouldn't shield Hilda at this range because pushing her away just makes her position more favourable

2) You have no frickin reason to shield as Vatista at this range anyway.

So you're running pressure on a Vatista that's downbacking. What do you try to do? Use the overheads. What's the problem? They're very reactable. So, we need to get in and run some janky stuff using j.[C]/empty hops into low and so on, right?

 

That's the next problem. Vatista is downbacking. If she sees you hop, she's going to flashkick. If she sees you run right at her, she's probably going to hit 2A+C+D to sweep/throwtech you before your crappy 8f low is in reach. She's not going to shield you because why would she? She's got a flashkick. You've got nothing unless you've knocked her down and put an orb on her. You can run a mixup if you've got an orb, but if it doesn't hit you're back to the midrange pressure that she doesn't care about because you're doing no chip damage and she has a life lead. You're not going to toss orbs in neutral because she's going to laser them in their long startup.

 

If you've gotten to the midrange game with a life lead, you've got a chance the onus is on the Vatista to make the move. God speed in getting that position. It's possible, but it requires you to be extremely on point at all times against someone who can just wait for you to tie the noose.

 

tl;dr Vatista is better than Hilda at playing Hilda's game.

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Vatista's Flashkick should absolutely not be a problem. Hilda's most comfortable position is well outside of flashkick range and blocking orb negates the threat entirely. Vatista's full range game definitely wins vs. Hilda, but it isn't inherently any more threatening than Hilda's midrange game. Just patiently work your way forward until you get into range.

 

Downbacking is not some inherent disadvantage with Vatista, that's going to be a problem with everybody once they level up. Hilda still has ways to get around it like 623B > 214C > inescapable 50/50. If literally all they are doing is blocking then there's nothing stopping you from spamming until you get super meter - Vatista's only real answer is her Infinite Worth if she never goes in. I honestly find it hard to believe that you've found someone that's literally impossible to mixup, I mean Ragna's overheads are entirely reactable but mixing them in at unusual times will still open people up at even the highest levels of play. 

 

So yeah, both of them have answers to each other's shenanigans so it feels really even to me.

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What's all this nonsense about Vatista/Hilda being even? That's a horrible matchup, and I'll tell you why.

 

Vatista is better at fullscreen than Hilda, hands down. Hilda can stop Vatista doing sonic booms if she's got 200 meter, but that's it. Laser beats swords. Swords only beat sonic booms if you read it right (do air swords against grounded boom, grounded swords against air boom etc.) If you opt to both sit at full screen, Hilda's going to take more chip damage and wind up with a health deficiency. She has to get closer and land solid hits.

 

Nope, j. 236+a at full screen can beat everything vatista does especially at the correct height so she's forced to make to move

Also she can teleport right behild vatitista during the lazer/orb spam and you'll eat a combo and be pushed to mid range

Also, i've played that game against a few vatistia's and I won because I forced them to make a move 

 

 

This leads to the next problem. Hilda's midrange game is of course where she shines. Her gameplan as a character is to sit here with a life lead, make the opponent impatient and do something stupid that she can blow up and position herself in that same spot to do it again. Maybe toss out dagger orbs and run a high/low setup. She can use Invite Hell/5[C]/Petshop Stalactites to blow up shields in this range, but there's two things to consider about that:

1) People are starting to learn that you shouldn't shield Hilda at this range because pushing her away just makes her position more favourable

2) You have no frickin reason to shield as Vatista at this range anyway.

So you're running pressure on a Vatista that's downbacking. What do you try to do? Use the overheads. What's the problem? They're very reactable. So, we need to get in and run some janky stuff using j.[C]/empty hops into low and so on, right?

 

1) basic bnb puts you midscreen

2)Debatable because you might want that vorpal guard because it helps you a LOT during this matchup

3)You're saying that now but after you stand up you lose your charge so technically we can jump in unless you have chain shift I basically learned to do a neutral hop at most of them

 

Besides most of the stuff you just said proves you don't know the matchup at a high level at higher levels vatista needs to rush hilda down 

 

If you've gotten to the midrange game with a life lead, you've got a chance the onus is on the Vatista to make the move. God speed in getting that position. It's possible, but it requires you to be extremely on point at all times against someone who can just wait for you to tie the noose.

 

Teleport.

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This matchup is even. There are many mind games and both players have to put in an equal amount of effort. Neither one loses entirely full screen. Vatista's best tool here is indeed the laser. Hilda can only block it or jump over it, possibly punish of vat did ground laser. Other than that, any balls thrown Hilda's way can be skewered (ouch). Not to mention, because of the recovery:startup ratio on each chars tools, neither one can punish the other without meter assuming there is only the safe tools being utilized (balls and laser vs skewer). Outside of this it's anyone's game with certain things Hilda can sometimes get away with (setting up her own glum ball vs rush down char) that aren't possible and limiting her to her safest options.

Vati is not a bitch to block. Her midrange game is merely ok vs Hilda, but she can keep pressure. Granted not insanely great pressure with no reliable overhead. Meanwhile Hilda has several command highs and low to keep vatista guessing and possibly lose her charge.

This game rewards blocking, if either player is caught blocking the other full screen in this match, -they are at the advantage, not the attacker-. Chip must be taken into consideration, as well as time. GRD in this game seems more important than health though.

Nothing about this matchup screams vat at all. It's fine

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If you're fighting another Hilda who likes to do j.236A to fire over your ground Skewers, you can do j.236B to counter. If you both jump into the air and attack at the same time, your opponent's Skewer will whiff and your j.236B will hit them in the face on the way down. It makes them look pretty stupid too :v:

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Vati is not a bitch to block. Her midrange game is merely ok vs Hilda, but she can keep pressure. Granted not insanely great pressure with no reliable overhead. Meanwhile Hilda has several command highs and low to keep vatista guessing and possibly lose her charge.

 

I think you're underestimating Vatista's mixup.  She has one of the hardest overheads to block in the game (I believe it's her B dive).  It hits at the same rhythm off of a blocked jump-in as her land> 2C would, and converts into almost as much damage.  It takes a solid read to call out, but is thankfully punishable on block... except when used in setups covered by her exploding crystals... or when she has Vorpal for Chain-Shift, of course.

 

My guess is that the matchup still isn't Vatista-favoured though, as our ranged game seems to be safer and easier to maintain.

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Hilda Vs Gordeau Notes

 

-Shield Mortal Slide (preferably both hits if possible). Reason why this is super important is not only is it easy and gives you GRD, but it should ideally push Gordeau far enough away so that you don't get caught by the Assimilation follow up that Gordeau players LOVE to do to stop you from hitting buttons after Mortal slide since its negative on block. If they try to be a moron and Grim Reaper you instead, you should be able to stuff it. If its EX grim reaper, the super flash should eat your input. If they try to command grab, you should be far way enough/be able to jump it on reaction. 

 

-Watch Gordeau's GRD at all times. When Gordeau has Vorpal, you should expect the Gordeau player to command throw you while its still active. So for the next 17 seconds if the Gordeau player has you blocking, I'd put particular attention on anticipating the command grab in this situation. Look to upback divekick it if you can. If you guess wrong or something, he'll have either caught you standing with a low (worst general scenario for guessing wrong) or he caught you out of the air which is fine generally unless they were ready to hit confirm it.

 

-Watch for 6B and shield it on block. Reason being is that Gordeau players always cancel 6B into 22A, and between those two hits there is a gap that you can reversal/mash out of. For Hilda, her fastest attack is 6f (2A), which means that without shielding 6B, you'll trade unfavorably with 22A So its super important that you shield this attack when you can react and block 6B so that you shut down Gordeaus autopiloting into 22A. 

 

- The stupid 66C frame traps. Basically, Gordeau players love doing 66C 22A x N vs people. Generally the answer here is to mash a reversal, but Hilda can't really do that. So you have to do the same thing you do to 6B to 66C. Shield it and mash 2A. BUT here is the thing. Gordeau players also happen to like doing 66C into a purple/gold throw Assimilation and that beats people trying to mash 66C. Unfortunately I haven't really worked around this yet. For Hilda it seems that you can do a delayed crouch tech (2A~D, 3A+D, which ever) and be able to tech the throw and still get a 2A out, but I can't guarantee that trying to use this OS will let you cleanly beat Gordeau if he does 66C 22A instead of the gold throw. Also, if Gordeau tries to do 66C into a late assimilation (untechable this time), you should be able to just mash him out of it cleanly without a problem. So basically, shield 2A beats 2/3 of this scumbag character's general go to options in this situation cleanly. 

 

-Watch his meter. EX Grim Reaper is a big problem for Hilda. It can be mashed between her strings to flat out punish her and can stop her from running her j.[C]/2A game. Be sure to bait this out on wake up whenever you can by keeping your space and go for 22B/C lynchpin on oki instead or simply run up and block first, then continue with her mixup after confirming the opponent is blocking a Gloom.

 

-Don't try to interrupt Gordeau in the middle of IW. Wait for the entire thing to happen on block and then punish.

 

THINGS TO TEST VS GORDEAU:

 

HOW TO STOP GRIM REAPER xx 236C AND THE GARBAGE HE DO AFTERWARDS ;;

 

This match up is totally winnable, but it definitely needs to be done in neutral. Once Gordeau is in, your chances of winning this match up drop tremendously. Meter management is ultra important in this match up. Deny him Vorpal and always keep your meter as high as possible for emergency guard cancels and for 236A 214C in neutral. Gordeau really can't do anything about that (much like the majority of the cast). If you know you can't win the round because of timer/health difference, hold your meter and try to gain as much of it as you can. Fighting Gordeau without meter is almost suicide. 

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THINGS TO TEST VS GORDEAU:

 

HOW TO STOP GRIM REAPER xx 236C AND THE GARBAGE HE DO AFTERWARDS ;;

 

Depending on the distance, it becomes a frame trap

The best answer to this j.2C since he does the frame trap with a low after this is one of those scenarios where you need to make a hard read 

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Does anyone else hate Kuuga? Or is it just me?

 

Grounded Kuuga seems to beat everything I do at match start except for jump. And blocking air or ground Kuuga let's her dash in for free. And at midrange, if you guess she's going to Kuuga and try to jump it, she can run behind you with her fast dash.

 

But the worst of all is aerial super Kuuga in neutral. This beats just about everything you can do and baits the hell out of your anti air 3B. The only way I assume we can beat this move is with a pre-emptive 3C/5C.

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Merkava is really cheap and I'm not entirely sure how to deal with him in neutral. Mainly against patient Merkavas who fly outside of midrange and backdash a lot.

5B beats most of her options at the start of the round, so I'm already losing momentum there. I don't get how B+C is supposed to shut down fly because if they just fly outside of that range I don't see what you can do. Fireballs keep you from getting in that range, 66 seems to beat everything unless you make a hard read (it whiff punishes really well too), and he can apparently fly above lynchpin. 66B/C doesn't seem to really do much for me in this matchup because it's too slow to catch them from jumping or even backdashing most of the time. He can seemingly just easily backdash out of a lot of her mixups and 5C/cookie snatch keeps me from getting much started. It's just really hard for me to keep him pinned down (pun intended) and actually be able to do anything to him that isn't just punishing him for screwing up or hoping he can't block on oki.

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