[CPEX] Tsubaki Yayoi Changes and Discussion

[chzchan]

Okay I must not be understanding something here then. At least from what I read in Errol's post, the combos in the video will be too difficult to do and if you mess up which will be really easy to do, you will get punished hard. But is he referring to all of the combos in the video? Is he referring specifically to the corner combo that I mentioned?

I feel like I am definitely missing something in this conversation. I'm sorry for not picking up on something so straightforward.

[Errol]

the d22B>5D>6C combo part is extremely difficult and unstable. 

 

you have to hit it just before they touch the ground. 22B charge time is faster now, so you can't hold and release later, you have to delay 22B at the right time and hope it comes out just before they touch the ground (tech). Word is that if you whiff the 22B you're at significant frame disadvantage now.  even if you land it, fuck, you better have hit it just right or else 6C whiff into death, yay!

 

for reference, players who I know might not be held in high standards around here, were having trouble connecting 2B after that in training mode. Pikuri, Kuresu and such?

 

So yeah.   I know I would have liked to know before CP hit consoles that certain combo parts were not very stable/extremely character specific/requiring a different timing for 3-4 different groups of characters.

 

or maybe let's go on twitter and teach the japanese players about advanced input. 

[TheGreatReptar]

Ah cool, that's how it works? I figured it was either something like that, or you had to release it on the right frame like in CS2/Extend. Same concept anyway I guess. Hit them as low to the ground as possible.

 

Do you know if that combo happens to work off confirms that are longer than a single hit? =P

[Errol]

it's the same concept but the difference is the timing is completely front-loaded, and you can't eyeball it at all... and of course, the timing is completely different if you hit them on the ground, or hit them in the air, or WHERE you hit them in the air... And, of course, different characters fall at slightly different speeds and with the tightness here. yeah, it could very possibly fuck you up against Makoto or Carl. Good stuff. 

 

Something should connect if hitstun deterioration hsa kicked in but I don't know if 6c will. Doubt it though.

[TheGreatReptar]

Can't wait to see people die for trying it

[zaeris]

People are likely going to die in other combo areas, it's just adding more death.

[TheGreatReptar]

If you're bad I guess

[chzchan]

Thank you very much for going into more depth with the information. I would not have noticed the subtlety myself. I understand now.

Is the shorter fully charged time change spread across the entire 22X series? Lets say you get a FC 6A/22[D], will that increase the stability of the link?

[Errol]

FC doesn't do anything when the enemy techs due to emergency tech (touching the ground). Same reason FC does nothing for various tsubaki combo parts in CP1

[Airk]

Guys; I understand that this combo piece is going to be hard possibly to the point of being unusable, but I really feel like you're being unnecessarily mean about it;  Not everyone has good information about the requirements of this, since not everyone reads Japanese, so would it kill us to share this information without all the sneering? =/

 

And no, so saying "It doesn't work" and THEN mocking someone for doubting you when no one has explained why doesn't count.

[chzchan]

FC doesn't do anything when the enemy techs due to emergency tech (touching the ground). Same reason FC does nothing for various tsubaki combo parts in CP1

So does 22 not come out immediately when fully charged anymore? I'm very curious about all of this stuff. They must have really changed up the frame data here.

[Zouf]

Her new combos look cool.

 

But her drive is a joke. 

[TheGreatReptar]

Airk, I'm just kind of sick of this happening like every time there's a version update. Everyone gets really excited for things without actually analyzing them properly and end up getting over excited, then when the game hits consoles everyone starts realizing how impractical/hard/whatever the things they were excited about are (when if they just actually thought about stuff critically, they could see they probably shouldn't get too excited), then everyone falls back to just complaining about how bad Tsubaki is instead of just playing the game. It's kind of annoying to see if happen every time.

 

And Zouf, thanks for contributing to the discussion with your thought provoking post. It really adds to the forum. Thanks.

[chzchan]

I'm not even that excited, at least about the combos in that specific video, because there isn't that much in depth info available, but that is mostly because I can't read Japanese. I just want information so that I can analyze things properly without jumping the gun. The example of the corner combo earlier I would have never ever been able to notice with the quality of information available. The fact that this route even existed surprised me because, at least so far, it seems like chargeless Tsubaki combos are not dependent on screen placement. I'm just here to learn, attempt to provide knowledge/scrutiny, and get corrected when I am incorrect.

[Zouf]

 

And Zouf, thanks for contributing to the discussion with your thought provoking post. It really adds to the forum. Thanks.

 

Provoking post? Are you joking me?

 

You guys seriously need to chill out, like,  A LOT.

 

Her drive still look incredibly useless now, doesn't change that fact. Even more than in 1.1, which is a wonder. ASW are really trying their best to nerf it to nothingness <3

[Daedron]

Provoking post? Are you joking me?

 

I think you need to re-read it and get some basic English skills. Not trying to be mean here, but just READ.

[Airk]

Can we not play the "no, YOU were being inflammatory!!" game? Please? -_-

[zaeris]

lol, well there are a lot of harder games than BB. But besides that point if someone wants to attempt something hard or not it's like their choice. I don't tell people not to be like Sako in sf4, because if you can reach that point of consistency it's a big pay off and there are crazy people out there who just practise all day and can manage.

 

In the end, do what you want............

 

p.s Yes its hard, lets move on.

[chzchan]

It's considered crazy if you practice all day? I thought that was a normal thing among the FGC. I can sit in the training room for hours and hours with a smile on my face. I guess pulling things off in a live match is another story though. I have been steeling myself for DP whiff routes nonstop and practicing jcc > OD on different characters to get a feel for what jcc is like so that the 214D > jcc > CT route comes naturally when 2.0 hits.

What you do to tell if you jcc'd correctly or not is if OD is considered a cancel or a raw OD. I have been practicing with Hakumen's Enma which is both OD and jump cancellable on hit. If I time things right I can get the OD to be raw using jcc instead of shortened if the OD cancel is used while still being on the ground. It means that I cancelled into OD out of jump startup which is what will have to be done for CT in the new route. I know it will definitely be different in feel, but I think this will prepare me somewhat.

Just realized right now I could be practicing this with Tsubaki's 6C as well since it is both OD and jump cancellable on hit. Whoops.

Actually, are there any characters that have moves that are jump cancellable but not special (CT) cancellable?

[Zouf]

Not trying to be mean here

Yeah, right.

 

But keep debating over a combo route no one has ever tried once here, this really adds value to this thread indeed.

[BatousaiJ]

 

Provoking post? Are you joking me?

 

You guys seriously need to chill out, like,  A LOT.

 

Her drive still look incredibly useless now, doesn't change that fact. Even more than in 1.1, which is a wonder. ASW are really trying their best to nerf it to nothingness <3

 

[FatalCounter]

Yeah, Tsubaki Thread did not change at all. We still have those dedicated guys doing great stuffs like Kiba, Daedron or BatousaiJ and a lot of people always complaining about how bad she is and will remain. If someone is disappointed by how Tsubaki works in BBCP (in general) why not dropping her and try a more cheaper, satisfying and easier character? There is Celica coming soon.

I seriously believe this is one of his strongest version since BBCS 2.0 and I hated some of her changes in BBCP that is why I dropped her. I love and still play as her sometimes but Tsubaki Thread is one the best and well-organised of this forum, some comments can just stop a newcommer to try her. 

 

What is the point or the goal of reminding everytime everyone on Tsubaki forum that she sucks and is worthless? Which is not even true (anymore I guess) 

[Daedron]

What is the point or the goal of reminding everytime everyone on Tsubaki forum that she sucks and is worthless? Which is not even true (anymore I guess) 

 

Because they don't want to get better or they lack matchup knowledge, so they blame the character instead of themselves. Doesn't only happen here, but it's most prevalent.

Do I agree with some of Arc Sys' decisions? No. But this character is far better off than she was in CS1 and Extend, and there are characters that are worse than Tsubaki in CP1, CP1.1 and CP2. So yeah, chill. Get better.

[Kiba]

But her drive is a joke. 

 

 

Provoking post? Are you joking me?

 

You guys seriously need to chill out, like,  A LOT.

 

Her drive still look incredibly useless now, doesn't change that fact. Even more than in 1.1, which is a wonder. ASW are really trying their best to nerf it to nothingness <3

 

 

But keep debating over a combo route no one has ever tried once here, this really adds value to this thread indeed.

 

Let me just repeat things that have been said here to you before, because you don't seem to be listening:

 

Posting an opinion is fine but at least explain why and back it up. This goes for everyone.

Just saying, "no that's not true you suck" or "it's my opinion" and ending it there is not constructive discussion. If you don't want to then that's on you friend-o but don't be surprised if people are confused and don't understand your train of thought. People don't even have to agree on it after all is said and done but at least something useful might have come out of it instead of petty insults.

Also those insults are best left elsewhere since in the end, they usually end up making you look worse than the person you're insulting.

 

You aren't even explaining why you think her drive is a joke, not to mention it's also quite negative and that's the last thing anyone wants to hear. If there is seriously something you don't like about Tsubaki, then it will be wise of you to make it constructive, and if you can't, then your better option is to avoiding posting at all. Compare your statement to Errol's. Errol has successfully explained why he advises us not to use that said combo in discussion which some of the Japanese Tsubaki players have tried. I don't see why that isn't productive. Getting real tired of this shit tbh, and techically I could ban you under this rule:

 

'Being a giant whiny crybaby or otherwise being insufferable about something stupid will get you banned because frankly, nobody wants to listen to you complain. Likewise goes for being thickheaded or making massive jumps to conclusions about shit.'

 

I don't know what you do with you, but I will say this again. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY DO NOT POST. I have warned you before, and you got away with insulting me last time. I won't hesitate to ban you should you not follow the rules. I actually lied in one of my previous posts. I CAN be nice, but I'm firm. I don't like handing out infractions but if I see someone is seriously dragging down my forum I'll cut them down.

 

For those that just complain about Tsubaki stuff, I ask this: why are you still playing her then? Don't you guys have something better to do in your lives rather than posting shit on the forum? Is Tsubaki that much of a 'waifu' that you're sticking to her? There are better characters that you can play y'know. Keep the complaints and negativity away from here. This is a general statement and goes for everyone. While I'm on this topic, I have also noticed that some of you keep complaining in the News and Gameplay thread in the Blazblue Gameplay thread! You guys need to stop that, just keep the opinions to yourself. There is already a discussion thread for Tsubaki, it's here, so use it, WISELY.

[Airk]

I'm gonna be honest here - I don't think there was really that much actual COMPLAINING happening in the Gameplay thread;  There was lots of pointing out why Tsubaki isn't good, but that's NOT the same thing.

 

There seemed to be a lot of ignorance there, and that has since been corrected.   Maybe it strayed into 'complaining' at the end, but it did not make up most of the conversation.

 

Just my two cents, however.