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Kiba

[CPEX] Valkenhayn Changes and Discussion Thread

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Yeah they're both unrelated. The untech time of wj.A wouldn't affect whether the tk.214B will work mid combo. I think the bigger question is whether wj.A > w5C works.

 

Anyway, we'll have to wait for footage for any confirmation.

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I at least hope we can still combo w.jA > h.5C. I would be really sad if we lost that.

Losing Nacht Rozen as a corner carry tool is pretty saddening too.

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Ohh you meant air hit wj.A > w5C, didn't you?

 

Nah on a grounded opponent.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

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Interesting video uploaded by Jourdal here.

What we can confirm so far:
-j214B wallbounce in the corner thus making the opponent float lower for corner combos.
-Wolf grab does 1400 raw instead of 1500
-w5C P2 nerf.
-brjA>w5BC>w236A>2C>6B>2C>tk214B>3C (2152 dmg) wjA is now S.
-wB+C>wj214C whiff>5D>2C>6B>2C>tk214B>6C>3C>(Sturm) 2949(4011) dmg. OD Sturm deal around 1400 min damage now instead of 1600.
-w5C>w236A>wjC does 1857 dmg while it does 1744 in 1.1. Either wjC got a godlike P2 buff or wolf canon now have a great P2.
-wB+C>wj236A does 1832 while it does 1860 in 1.1 Considering that wB+C deal 100 less damage, it's either because of wolf canon P2 buff or wB+C got a better P2. Or both.
-OD wolf Konigg raw does 3736 and can be RC. It's 3370 in 1.1 for human Konigg. 2704 without OD and it was 2466 in 1.1 with human konigg
-OD wolf Konigg>RC>w5C>w236A>w236B>wj236A>wj236B>wj236C>wj214A>wj214B does 6692 dmg
-OD(w5C)x9>w236A>w236B>wj236A>wj236B>wj236C>wj214C>w236C does 5324 dmg. We still have wj214X in OD doing ground bounces it seems.
-w5C>wjA does 998 when it did 955 before. wjA's P2 is buffed.
-w5C>wjA>wjC does 1430 dmg. Did 1308. wjC looks like it's buffed indeed.
-5B>3C does 988 instead of 1088. Adding a 236A does 1377 when it was 1477. They probably nerfed 5B's raw damage by 100.
-5B>3C>236A>6D>wjA>w5C>w236A>2C>6B>2C>tk214B>6C>3C (3148 dmg)
-w5C>w236A>3C>236C (2061 dmg was 2039) route still seems to work.

Pure supposition:
-wjC doesn't seem to stop momentum anymore. You can see him falling while executing it during wjA>wjC combos.
 

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Here's hoping 6D > w.jC might work. Unlikely, yes, but I hope we can still get an overhead that leads to good damage. No word on how good of a starter w.jB is yet?

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Do u think that his combos will change drastically?

I'm so bored of the thousand updates of this game, having to relearn everything, even 1.1 was killing me, having to relearn almost everything.

With P4 out, i don't know if I'll have the strength to relearn combo from scratch  for VK, also it's my favourite characters, all fighting game included ( and i play Fg till GG reload).

 

from what I see from the first videos, he seems not to have changed so much, but well, it's day one...

 

With P4, XRD, and a kid coming in december, I don't know if I can follow Arcsys updated with my irl time left haha.

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wJa buff is a welcome change, although I'm not so sure on the rest.  Have to play and see.  Too bad we didn't get any damage buffs, but I'm just glad we still have mixups.

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Kuroko says w5C and w.236A have increased attack level. Waiting for confirmation.

 

Suuya:

-w[j.A>5B>5C>236A]>2C>tk.214B>w[walk 5B > 236C > j.236A > j.236B > j.236C > j.214A > j. 214B > Flüg] ~3300

-Crossed 5k from C and j.C (no mention of wolf mode so I'm guessing human, although idk about j.C into 5k).

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Here's hoping 6D > w.jC might work. Unlikely, yes, but I hope we can still get an overhead that leads to good damage. No word on how good of a starter w.jB is yet?

That's one of the big questions that would determine whether or not CP2 Valk is better than 1.1 or not.

Unless they decreased wjC's startup, it shouldn't work. Also, considering that it was the most used wolf meaty, the fact that the Valk player never bothered to use it implies a lot.

However, if wjB is indeed an N starter, then we are back to 1.0 in terms of damage considering the overall wolf damage buff.

 

Do u think that his combos will change drastically?

I'm so bored of the thousand updates of this game, having to relearn everything, even 1.1 was killing me, having to relearn almost everything.

With P4 out, i don't know if I'll have the strength to relearn combo from scratch  for VK, also it's my favourite characters, all fighting game included ( and i play Fg till GG reload).

 

from what I see from the first videos, he seems not to have changed so much, but well, it's day one...

 

With P4, XRD, and a kid coming in december, I don't know if I can follow Arcsys updated with my irl time left haha.

Most characters in 2.0 seem to have lost their old routes and have to go with completely new one. Though, Valk seems to be an exception. So far, the new corner combos are pretty much the same. Wolf combos are roughly the same too.

I hope however that new routes will be found. Looks like most of the nerfs he took only affect his human corner carry (236C barely blows back, 2C>6C not a thing anymore) while wolf corner carry looks roughly the same (Though the fact that canons seem to make the opponent float lower might either helps or shut down some routes).

So basically, if we want to have the sick corner carry our dear butler always had, we will have to use more wolf gauge.

Anyway, my opinion is that no, you won't have to learn everything from scratch.

 

wJa buff is a welcome change, although I'm not so sure on the rest.  Have to play and see.  Too bad we didn't get any damage buffs, but I'm just glad we still have mixups.

Wolf damage overall is buffed except for w5C (though the loop still deals high damage so it's a slight P2 nerf). Like I debated with Kaiser though, we still don't know anything concerning human mode aside from 5B having 100 less damage. We need more datas to figure it out.

On the bright side though, sacrificing wolf gauge for more damage is now much more rewarding so we will be able to go for the kill much more efficiently now.

As for mixups, while it's true that we are back to 1.0 with the high/low mixup, the wolf grab nerfs are huge. So we are somewhat between 1.0 and 1.1 I guess.

I would like to point out that I barely know japanese so my analysis is mostly based on what I can figure out of Suya's notes:

-3C>236A>2A>2C route still works.

-Looks like after combos finishing by wj236C, you can always do 3D>hjC>3C as an ender. Might allow to always gets OD Sturm out of any wolf heavy combos for max damage. Boost Valk's potential damage output by quite a lot.

-High damage human combos seem to basically contain the ender sequence ...>2C>tk214B>6C>2C>6B>5B>2C>jBBC

 

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However, if wjB is indeed an N starter, then we are back to 1.0 in terms of damage considering the overall wolf damage buff.

Is there evidence of this? That would be pretty sweet.

 

(Dammit sorry double-post. I meant to add this to the previous one but spaced.)

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Nah, it was just something I was wondering. If wjA is back to S, maybe wjB would be back to being N.

Did Suya mention jC>RC>jC perhaps ?

Also, not sure if it's just me but in the video I linked, it seems like the regen during OD is faster. It's quite noticeable during OD wolf loops.

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New routes

 

w[ja jc 5b 5c 6d ja 5d] 5b 236a 2c tk214b 2c 6b 5b 2c jb jb jc ~ 2900 damage

w[jc 5b 5c 6d ja jc 5d] 236a 2c 6b 5b 2c tk214b 6c 3c ~ 3000 damage

 

wjc seems to leave less recover. I really like the changes, It's possible that Valk could be top tier or at least a great character.

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Maybe I'm seeing things incorrectly, or maybe it has to do with extended hurtboxes, but did I just see Valk score a counterhit wj.C on Hakumen while he's in crouching state from a whiffed 2D?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vfWWs6JC9Ps#t=676

 

Maybe instant wj.C works on Hakumen, too? Now I wonder about Relius...

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Hmmm maybe. That'd be nice. He was really high so I can see why it'd miss most of the cast. I don't think it'd hit Relius. It might have only hit Hakumen caus of the 2D.

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Wait wait wait, I havent followed this, wj.C doesn't hit crouching anymore? I read the opposite last page.

 

Edit: you mean neutral wj.C? because  wj.C hits crouching after wj.A, seen on the Amane VS VK video

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6D>wjA>wjC works yeah.
What we are specifically talking about is 9wjC raw used mostly as a meaty. Suya confirmed that it only works on Tager crouching.

The video Jyosua posted is interesting though. Mikka used it once more afterwards but the Hakumen was standing. Maybe it actually works against him crouching and that was the reason why he kept using it.

I'm actually gonna try to talk with Takenoko to see if we can get more information.

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I'm actually gonna try to talk with Takenoko to see if we can get more information.

Do me a favour and ask him if w.jA > h.5C > TK.214B is still something that works for corner carry!

Also, can you ask if 236A > 6D > w.jA has a gap? I think the speed buff on wolf cancel is a bit nuts, so for fairness sake I still hope there's a gap.

And my biggest pet peeve has arisen with 2.0, and that is people forgetting that TK.214B > 6C > 3C is still a thing. They're wasting so much precious wolf meter T_T

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Hmmm maybe. That'd be nice. He was really high so I can see why it'd miss most of the cast. I don't think it'd hit Relius. It might have only hit Hakumen caus of the 2D.

 

The reason I bring up Relius is because, like Tager and Hakumen, he has a tall crouching hurtbox. Characters who posses a 5A that normally whiffs on crouch often find their 5A won't whiff on them.

 

That said, it is indeed entirely possible that it could have been caused by an extended hurtbox from the 2D. We probably just need to find out directly from a JP player to know for sure, so hopefully Magaki will have some luck with that.

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