[CP2] Relius Loketest Changes and Discussion

[NecroTheReaper]

Looks like we're back to comboless Ex Relius. Time to break necessary 3C>2D combo paths again.

Actually, thinkin back on Ex, does the ignis idle drain look any different?

[Myoro]

Yes it does, but I can't tell in which way.

 

I think our OD Regen starts quicker though.

[WakeUpDP]

Some training mode & fights here: http://www.twitch.tv/central804/b/576264996?t=11h39m50s

 

Showing off the wallstick after Zein, playing around with jump cancel 2C, matches, etc.

 

Looks like we're back to comboless Ex Relius. Time to break necessary 3C>2D combo paths again.

 

Not really, we can still do ...>3C>41236BD>stuff

[NecroTheReaper]

Ok, 2C jump cancel confirmation eases a loooot of my worries. Still, they're really forcin us to use ignis this time around. Now you'll NEED at least one ignis loop before confirming into 3C for combo extensions unless you just have confidence oozing from your pours that you landed that hit

Edit: good bye 2C FC confirms. I will miss you and your jump loops -cry-

Double edit: did I imagine it or does 214A now cause kd/slide on normal hit now? Also, Duo Bios got put on speed. Whole thing finishes a looooot faster. Wonder if this will let you tack on more damage at the very end of it

[Myoro]

So 2C jump cancel is very good. very good. But I think they shortened Tus' dash part...

 

I think the fall from airhit 3C may be sped up because the guy whiffed Tus Oki twice (and it looks faster)

 

Looks like we get sandwiches whenever Ignis ends a move on the other side of an opponent.

[Myoro]

So unpolished 5B starter corner combo into Zein did 4.3K meterless

 

I saw a Tus>2C>236C>Zein>5A+B>bluhbluh>3C>distortion do 6K.

 

It looked improv'd too.

 

ZEIN IS A MONSTER! AND I'M IN LOVE!

[NecroTheReaper]

I'm curious as to how/if Haas and Naidas get buffed in OD as well. It'd be awesome if you didnt have to have the opponent airborne to get a midscreen OD combo.

Zein looks cool for combos, buuuuuuut tbh I'd rather have 3C. I guess we cant have it all, but for now I don't think Relius is budging from his A tier position. No more auto confirms with 3C>6D though, but I feel content.

[LaziestNameEver]

I was looking on Twitter and 2GB Combo mentioned that, with JC 2C and Ignis sandwiches, midscreen fuzzies could be a thing now.

[Myoro]

This came at the right time for me at least. Auto confirming is kinda like Relius training wheels, and I was starting to move over to Tao because she requires crazy presence of mind.

 

I think as a player, lack of autos will spur growth, but it's not like we can't pressure cycle any more. In fact, 2C might be a frame or two better for our pressure cycle.

 

Let's see... so we hit before 2C, we use 2C>3C>6D>665B>2C>6C>41236B>665B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>airdash

 

If we jump after a 2C hit, we can do these things I tested with Rapids.

 

We hit during 2C we jump+6D>falling j.C>665B>3C>41236B+D>2C>j.B>j.C>2C>6C>22A/B

 

^Gives great oki because 22A/B is has sooo many actives that the huge drop from 22A/B gives it time to be extremely plus. 2600 a combo (300 IG mark up, less screen carry, approx 300 damage less than an old 2C>3C combo woulda done in 1.1)

 

or jump+6D>falling j.C>665B>3C>6D>665B>2C>6C>41236B>665B>2C>6C>41236B>665B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~214B

 

^just as good as the old 2C>3C route, only it costs 1300 more. Gives splended carry though. No joke.

 

or jump+6D>falling j.C>665B>3C>41236B+D>2C>(2C loop if it exists)>2C/6B>air ender

 

^Purely theoretical.

 

jump+6D>falling j.C>665B>5C(2)>3C>41236B+D>2C>IAD>TKj.236C(wrong way)~214A(back into Relius)>5C(2)>stuff

 

Also theoretical needs to be scoped out. By someone who is awesome.

 

2C FATAL!!>falling j.C>5B>3C>6D>665B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B

 

^#Best fatal confirm 2015

 

I was looking into midscreen fuzzys. 2C>j.C looks like it isn't airtight, but 2C>6D>j.C might be. But why would anyone block 2C high? 

[NecroTheReaper]

Myoro, I hate to disappoint you but... 2C isnt FC anymore from what I saw in that video.

[Myoro]

What's the CH like?

[NecroTheReaper]

Oh, CH is the same launch. I guess thats more of a bummer to me... I'm a very avid user of jump loops.

[Myoro]

I mean ground counter hit.

 

What's that like? Can we still do CH2C>jump>falling j.C and make it work? Or does ground counter hit launch too?

 

Personally I never used Fatal loops. Could never get them down, just like 5B>3C>IAD+6D>j.B>2C.

 

I need to know about CH2C because crush combo and desummon combos may or may not happen based on that.

[NecroTheReaper]

I didn't see ground hit. Most of em were matches and our Relius player (I can never remember how to spell his name) was mostly showin off 2C jump cancel for typical confirms

[WakeUpDP]

Ryo retweeted a blog post from a Relius player that you guys might remember that made this video: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=iD22T2rIxbM

with some details on CP2.0(in japanese though)

http://www.famitsu.com/cominy/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=87449

http://www.famitsu.com/cominy/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=87550

 

so for example ...>41236B>2C>delayed j.B>j.C>relaunch for side switch works (makes sense), and pleeeeeenty of other stuff

 

Also the Relius player (re?)posted a few weeks on twitter a video he made a bit back  in CP1.0 that I missed that was pretty awesome https://twitter.com/Grass_pilE/status/516800407658442754

[LaziestNameEver]

Ryo retweeted a blog post from a Relius player that you guys might remember that made this video: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=iD22T2rIxbM

with some details on CP2.0(in japanese though)

http://www.famitsu.com/cominy/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=87449

http://www.famitsu.com/cominy/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=87550

 

so for example ...>41236B>2C>delayed j.B>j.C>relaunch for side switch works (makes sense), and pleeeeeenty of other stuff

 

Also he (re?)posted a few weeks on twitter a video he made a bit back  in CP1.0 that I missed that was pretty awesome https://twitter.com/Grass_pilE/status/516800407658442754

So 6B really did become a better anti-air in exchange for the float on ground hit. That's nice.

[NecroTheReaper]

I could make a bit of sense out of the language butchering that google translate gave me, but can someone do a proper translate please? -puppy eyes-

That first line of 6B makes me happy. When I realized that my issue with 2C was that I was expecting it to be able to beat all air approaches if used wisely, now we get a way to stuff people that try to abuse its dead zone. Does it launch on CH ground hit? I tend to get 6B CH's.occasionally when I fail at CA.

[Myoro]

I could make a bit of sense out of the language butchering that google translate gave me, but can someone do a proper translate please? -puppy eyes-

That first line of 6B makes me happy. When I realized that my issue with 2C was that I was expecting it to be able to beat all air approaches if used wisely, now we get a way to stuff people that try to abuse its dead zone. Does it launch on CH ground hit? I tend to get 6B CH's.occasionally when I fail at CA.

 

You too!? I do the same thing on failed CAs...

 

Anyway I posted a behest in the CP2.0 general. And Lazy, the amazing and great person that he/she is, posted in the News thread. Now we play the waiting game.

 

I also wanna know how good 6B is gonna be. Relius needs defense 100x more than an offense tool that's something I know for sure.

[NecroTheReaper]

From the look of things so far, his "defensive" moves and supers still look like they're quite bad except for in combos. Getting a forced restand from OD vinum and a free 1k damage when OD Tedo only does 1.1k seems like the go-to combo ender now for OD. Especially if we do stuff like 2C>jcOD(4D)>3C>23663214C for full OD duration. If OD times were nerfed though, it'd be kinda pointless.

3C change is still gonna bother the hell out of me, but I feel like I'm comin to terms with 2.0 now.

[TD]

Ignis seems like like less of a crutch and at the same time, even more important. I'm getting more of a "two character" vibe like with Carl. Honestly ignis always felt more like a persona than a puppet, but now its like relius absolutely needs her to do anything at all from anywhere. At least, that's how I feel about it.

He seems a bit miffed at the nerfs honestly. Still has very solid offense I bet even after losing 3c, but mixup will be worse. Not nonexistent, but definitely worse. More decisions will need to be better thought out in general. He isn't alone either, pretty much every character who has a meter for drive got a nerf to emphasize the weaknesses of not having a drive. He could have gotten the hazama treatment.

Restand vinum is a decent quirk, I could imagine crossup unblockables to screw with those 623 dp inputs. Kagura and kokonoe should be immune to these unblockables right?

I can't imagine relius even wiping his ass without ignis there anymore. He should invest in some upgraded batteries for when she breaks down.

[NecroTheReaper]

Well, one thing is that 2C isn't really a commitment anymore with either unsafe or sketchy followups. If they manage to block it you're not forced into using 3C or 6C (3C could wiff, 6C isn't really mashable but is very obvious). If 6B has h-invul now, then there's now a bigger risk on trying to approach Relius. Ground approaches have to deal with 5B and aor approaches seem like they can be called out more easily.

One thing that's bothering me is that google translate makes it sound like they took away a portion of j.B's higher-hitting hitbox. Hopefully google translate is just especially garbage this time and someone can come around with more understandable translations soon. Soon...

[WakeUpDP]

Does it launch on CH ground hit? I tend to get 6B CH's.occasionally when I fail at CA.

Was scanning through the new footage and it seems it does launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqb0mzeYSDo&t=6120

 

 

Kagura and kokonoe should be immune to these unblockables right?

Kokonoe's teleport is not frame 1 invuln anymore

[Kikirin]

I didn't dig into the Id Zain notes or combo descriptions, but here are the changes to existing stuff (from the first half of the first blog post). Stuff in parentheses are either my own comments / inferences or generalized summaries of particular text (as opposed to a word-for-word translation).

 

• Relius dash speed faster?

• Pincer system added

  • (Description of what a pincer looks like.)

• 6B:

  • Head invincibility added

  • Gatling removed

  • Doesn’t float on ground hit

  • Startup slowed (i.e., longer startup)

  • Slower than 5C and 2C, faster than Lauger. ~13-15f

• 3C:

  • Can’t jump cancel

  • Reduced recovery?

• 2C:

  • Jump cancel possible

  • Fatal counter removed

  • Blowback on counterhit is the same

  • (something about being able to follow up after jc > stuff > landing?)

• j.B

  • Top part of [attack] hitbox removed

  • Generally, there is no hitbox near the shoulder

  • Lower attack level

• 2D

  • Pulls the opponent towards the ground on air hit

  • Not a hard knockdown (for above situation?)

  • SMP added?

• 4D

  • OD version removed

• Val Lanto

  • Starts up faster

  • Since it connects when summoned after 5B, startup is ~17f?

  • Attack level increase?

  • Probably at least even on block

  • (Hard?) knockdown on hit.

  • (Relius’s recovery increased on 214 series? Probably same [recovery length] as [Val] Tus ?)

  • [Can] transition into pincer when blocked at close range.

• Val Lyra

  • Relius recovery increased

  • Transitions into pincer state after attack

  • Float lowered on OD version

• Val Tus

  • Distance the same as for BBCSE, “searches” from within that distance (I’m guessing that means the attacks come out when it encounters the opponent, rather than going a fixed distance first.)

  • OD version:

    • Also floats on ground hit.

    • P2 changed 92 -> 94

• Id Haas

  • Decreased follow-up time

  • Doesn’t combo into [Gad] Leis and CT

  • OD version added

  • OD version:

    • Roughly the same as Lanto

    • Uses 3000 gauge

• Id Naiads

  • OD version added

  • Ground Naiads transitions to pincer

  • OD version:

    • [ground] bounces akin to unlimited version, can combo after

    • Uses 3000 gauge

• Req Vinum

  • OD version added

  • OD version

    • Forces ground crouch

    • 500 minimum damage

• Vol Tedo

  • Increased recovery on hit?

  • Shortened animation

• Duo Bios

  • More lenient P2 (i.e. higher P2?)

  • (Something about direction of first hit for OD version)

[NecroTheReaper]

j.B nerf sounds like fuzzies are gone, but oh well. Faster Lanto with more recovery though... hmm... not sure how I feel about it yet. So 6B is roughly 13f now and cant go into 5C with h-invul. Kinda strange since 2C is faster than it, maybe it has really good invul. I also wonder if its still -1 on block if there's no gatlings.

Dash speed. Just yeah, I feel really good about that.

[Myoro]

About "Pincer State." From observation it appears that the time for it is reset each time a move is used so long as the move ends on the opposite side of the opponent. This includes j.XD. I'm unclear if the timer resets on whiff.

 

What I want to know is what causes Pincer. If j.XD could cause it by hitting the back of their hurtbox or even buy whiffing behind them, that would be a cost effective way to start pinser at only 1K. If IAD>j.B>j.2D>5B started Pinser mid combo that would be super nice.

 

As it stands, the best ways to start Pinser are 214B and 236C~214B.