JyakotuKurayami Report post Posted August 7, 2014 pochp edit : Listing changes, much more than I initially thought. If something isn't listed or incorrect please reply to this thread. 5c 6c doesnt' combo on air hit, but still works on crouching. Has jump cancel on hit. Counterhit spins opponent, should be able to do 5c CH 5d 6c. Seems to have slower startup. 2c air normal hit launches higher, more untechable time. Can't jump cancel, but 2c 2d jump combos. Counterhit very similar to air hit. 3c jump cancel on block still there. 6b first hit mid, second only overhead. First hit much faster, works like lambda's 4b in CS. can gatling 2b 6b, 2c 6b, 5c 6b, 6b 3c, can special cancel. Has fatal counter, knockdown on air hit (combo with 2c otg). Can stein cancel first hit but not second, can't gatling from first hit. 6c seems to blow back slower, but following up with ikutachi seems the same. j.2c faster (j.b j.2c combos), less untech time? can be emergency teched, not overhead when done at low height (or whiffs on crouching when done rising, not sure about translation). stein cancel on block ok. 63214b float is different, can't cancel into a stein. 236d faster and movement is different. stays on stein longer before moving to the next one? 214d faster? 63214c charges faster or level 2 wallbounces. level 1 doesn't wallbounce on counterhit. blowback shorter, can combo easily after RC. Max charge is faster too. Stein shots only reach about half screen (charged and uncharged), slower to fire. stein recovery is faster, can cancel into C normals and 6b (air steins too). Air steins can't be jump cancelled? Can't be airdash cancelled? Charged stein only one hit. Overdrive doesn't cause steins to auto-fire, steins stay when it ends. Throw can be special cancelled, OD cancelled. New sample combos to give you guys an idea : Throw→CT→6A→6B→2C→5D→JB→JC→jcJB→JC→J2C 3502 Throw >6A>2C>2D>JB>JC>JB>JC>J2C>JD>J2C ~2900 corner throw OD 4x 214d 632146c ~5000?? 6b 5c 6b 5c SoD both corner and easy (https://twitter.com/dbeard_maguro/status/520231920798412800) 2B3C SoD > 2C5D > JCJB j.623c > 6B5D2C5D > sjJBJCJ2C j.214d > 632146c ~4000 2B3C SoD > 2C5Ddl2C5D > JC > JCJ2CJDJ2C j.214d > 6C5Ddl6B3C 632146c ~4000 2B>2C>3C>SoD>dash2B>6A>delay6C>5D>5C>2C>5D>hjJC>J2C(d hit)>DP>(d hit)>6A>6B 3240 (4114 with 3c omohikane) sources :https://twitter.com/srzaasuka/ (Serizawa)https://twitter.com/ExPomuo/https://twitter.com/dbeard_maguro (Maguro) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakahyl Report post Posted August 7, 2014 Odd changes if these are true, but it's still a loketest My opinion about these Mu: - 5C > 6C doesn't work at all anymore. - 6B is a mid on first hit; overhead on second hit. - 6B > 6C not a gatling anymore - 6C > 5D can't be done anymore. - 5c not going into 6c makes ikutachi nearly useless , unless you managed to hit an opponent off the ground with 2c > 6c > ikutachi - 6b is looking similar to Lambda's old 4b from cse, except that Lambda's 4b originally had 9f startup - unless 6b gattles into a special or is serious very plus on hit and block, then this move is completely useless. Because our 6b can only gattle into steins or 6c. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakahyl Report post Posted August 7, 2014 Actual good news for us https://twitter.com/hc0519 Mu - 6B faster, only special cancellable - J2C faster, knockdown when hit otg My guess is that 6b will be unfortunately like lambda's old 4b in cse and our 6b is back to the CSE version So i guess that our primary "overhead" will be j.2c -_- edit: i can't seem to understand the knockdown part of j.2c when hit of the ground Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Runis Report post Posted August 7, 2014 So do they expect us to rapid cancel or be in the corner to get any semblance of damage? no 5c 6c means we can only get 6C off an air hit, which requires rc. It would be far worse if they meant 5C 6C also doesn't work on airhit, which would be rage worthy. 6C 5D removal is wtf, is it no steins after 6C or just 5d, cause that's also random as hell. (although possibly to address corner OD loop) no jc on 3C block is understandable but not the worst. ikutachi change needs to be seen to understand, 6B seems useless if its not overhead on first hit. I'd understand the second hit being mid, but why the first hit? Didn't they learn from CSE Lambda? If its faster does that mean we can combo into it on a grounded opponent? Probs not. Most of these changes seem like that want to completely destroy the character to see what they can get away with in the final patch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakahyl Report post Posted August 7, 2014 Compiling all the info so far from day 1 loketest, which is based on the info from bbs sites and twitter messages. So some of these might not be true . Even if these are true now, they can just as likely changed be in the future loketests Mu: - 5C > 6C doesn't work at all anymore. - 6C no longer stein cancelable - 6B is a mid on first hit; overhead on second hit. - 6B much faster, regains special cancel, loses follow up gatlings - Ikutachi now floats in a weird way on hit. - 3C not jump cancelable on block anymore. - J2C faster, knockdown when hit otg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C0R Report post Posted August 7, 2014 Changes look awesome! Super buff mixup! 6c sucks anyway j.2c floors you if you get hit crouching/standing, like a sweep, can combo off it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeromus_X Report post Posted August 7, 2014 Having mixed feelings about these changes, but I will remain optimistic since first loketests are usually crazy. The j2C buff seems nice, and will help convert from it in mixup (if I'm understanding what it does now properly), and I guess we'll have to use SoD to confirm off 6B again. 5C > 6C gone on crouching/CH seems like a big hit. I assume it still works on air hit, otherwise RIP. Looks like they're really toning down her conversions midscreen and making it so we have to spend meter to get corner carry like in EX. Will have to see what exactly they changed about Ikutachi. Hopefully it doesn't mess with any combos or setups too much. Is 6C still cancellable into other steins, just not 5D? I guess they wanted to get rid of the midscreen setup 6C > 5D > SoD where the 5D could catch almost every tech option. Or perhaps just to make C moves more of a commitment in neutral. But if we can still cancel into other steins or specials then it should be fine. jump cancel on 3C being gone is saddening, as it was the only JC-able normal that still reached far enough to go for IAD/low airdash/empty jump mixup with stein backup. Now we will need to be in 5B/6A range (aka grinding against the opponent's sprite). I'm interested to see what other changes pop up. They're really changing her playstyle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
susano Report post Posted August 7, 2014 Changes look awesome! Super buff mixup! 6c sucks anyway j.2c floors you if you get hit crouching/standing, like a sweep, can combo off it. If c0r, says it's awesome, then I trust c0r. In c0r we trust. :P Though...I'll miss 5c/6c. ;__; Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivanchu77 Report post Posted August 8, 2014 .....this is awful RIP Mu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Runis Report post Posted August 8, 2014 First loketest, she's not dead yet, still has at least 2 more to get a second wind. I am confused as to how they expect us to use 6C though. seems to not have many options to get to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakahyl Report post Posted August 8, 2014 There are some ways to use 6c, like it doesn't state that 2c>6c or 6a>6c won't work . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C0R Report post Posted August 8, 2014 jump cancel on 3C being gone is saddening, as it was the only JC-able normal that still reached far enough to go for IAD/low airdash/empty jump mixup with stein backup. Now we will need to be in 5B/6A range (aka grinding against the opponent's sprite). This change makes a lot of sense given the buff to her overheads. She can't gatling into 6b at any range where it would hit as 6b(2), as all of her gatlings into overhead have short range. What they wanted to avoid was having both j.2c and 6b be a threat at max 3c range, which is why they removed the jump cancel, this also falls in compliance with the more universal removal to jump cancels late into strings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C0R Report post Posted August 8, 2014 Moved some stuff around, please keep 2.0 discussion here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
destruction_adv Report post Posted August 8, 2014 I don't think I like these changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pochp Report post Posted August 8, 2014 Just to clarify, 6c has no more stein cancels, not just 5d. Source : https://twitter.com/srzaasuka/status/497425663482003456 I like these changes. So far neutral looks the same, but pressure and midscreen rewards seem weaker, with stronger mixup?? Seeing as most characters are getting toned down, these make sense. Also, only the first loketest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakahyl Report post Posted August 8, 2014 Not sure if it's confirmed but i found this on https://twitter.com/Remityuwan J2C、トツカ、ハバキリ発生高速化、 meaning that our j.2c , totsuka and habakiri are all faster also i have read something about that Mu will fall faster to the ground after ikutachi > stein cancel but i have lost the exact tweet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Runis Report post Posted August 8, 2014 Thought as much with 6C 5D no longer working meaning 6C was no longer stein cancel-able. very weird change. means we can no longer do 6C 632D 146D to get guaranteed mirror Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Speakeasy Report post Posted August 10, 2014 I'm not good enough with Mu to be happy or sad about any of these, but I'm going to miss easy steins in pressure, I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daramue Report post Posted August 13, 2014 >>6c no longer stein cancellable Hoping this gets changed along sometime between now and release or was misreported. Pretty much easy mode stein pressure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Runis Report post Posted August 13, 2014 removing 6C stein cancel is to stop her easy access 6C 5D DP rc OD corner loop I would say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C0R Report post Posted August 14, 2014 The goal behind removing the 6c stein cancel is in line with the consistent universal removal of safe jump cancels at the end of long gatling options. This has been true for most characters across the board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Runis Report post Posted August 14, 2014 That depends on if it's removed on block or on hit though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C0R Report post Posted August 16, 2014 It's completely gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakahyl Report post Posted September 18, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL-JfSiGGWM#t=1m35s The new ikutachi looks a bit similar to her current unlimited version to me , because she falls down faster. We don't know if you can still stein cancel her ikutachi and the trailer started with 6c, so we dont know if she lost her 5c>6c gattle or not Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pochp Report post Posted October 8, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnS0_kfLMnA#t=410 what I see in this video atm : 6b first hit still no longer an overhead, but has more gatlings. 5c 6b 3c seems to work, probably more than that, special cancel too. stein shots are slower and no longer hit full screen steins have shorter recovery and can cancel into C normals?? I think I read that wrong I'm not sure they show a new 2c combo, with the slower timing on the stein shot and different j.2c knockdown... 2c seems different too, not sure if it's just me, never tried that combo but don't think 2c 2d j.b works on normal hit atm? steins don't auto shoot during OD and stay when it ends!!! um ok. well I guess the changed shot timings and different properties on j.2c knockdown invalidate a lot of my current tech. Interesting to see where this is going, going to have to start over on setups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites