Please explain Astral Finish?

[Verimeloni]

Relius's is not a grab, it's a hit.  Tager's is a hit too albeit an unblockable one.

 

Oh.

 

sry

[Airk]

Humorously, I don't Astral very much, even though I love mine, because I find that either:

 

A) I need that heat for something else.

B) If my opponent is weak enough that I DON'T need the heat for anything else, I actually have trouble building 100 heat without killing my opponent first.  Or at least, getting them so low that it's like "Okay, I can air-throw -> Astral!" and then the air throw kills them.

[Narroo]

I always found that Tsubaki's Astral looks silly because the 3D model is so bad.  If we got a nice model for it, it would be awesome. 

[BlackYakuzu94]

IT depends on my mood, but I will never get tired of using Hakumen's.

[Verimeloni]

5A > 632146C

 

opponent so salty

[Airk]

5A > 632146C

 

opponent so salty

 

That doesn't work anymore, they nerfed the startup on her Astral. :P

[LiveWireX]

Ah, this discussion makes me miss the days when I could combo into Noel's Astral normally. I know Hat Noel is DLC, but it just doesn't seem the same...

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, let Hakumen get his swag back.

[Verimeloni]

That doesn't work anymore, they nerfed the startup on her Astral. :P

:/ still works with Azrael tho.

[Airk]

:/ still works with Azrael tho.

 

Wow. He has a level 2 5A.  What a BS character.  Everytime I look at Azrael's frame data, I get more annoyed.

[D.R.F.]

Hes only b.s. on netplay:p lol jk. I think that has to do with his linking/ late gatling combo direction. Still not as hard a character as slayer though:0

[Synyster17]

Hes only b.s. on netplay:p lol jk. I think that has to do with his linking/ late gatling combo direction. Still not as hard a character as slayer though:0

 

lol for me azreal is a pain on netplay cause of the delay. you half got to adjust to hitting your links and stuff and it's not fun. while he isn't as hard as slayer he isn't as easy as most people think.

[Airk]

Actually, my hate for him has nothing to do with netplay.  It has to do with his absurd normals, crazy dashes, blahblahstuff.  Once again, they've basically just tossed balance out the window when designing a character.  Is there a compelling reason for his 5BB to be +5? No there is not.

[Lucalibur]

If you played the character you would understand why he both needs those and why they aren't as good as you make them out to be.

[D.R.F.]

I dont see azrael winning tourneys left and right. 5BB has a sizable gap In between it too. Thats why I love his drive so much, it defines his playstyle. Once you make your opponent fearful of pressing buttons, fearful of the risk you are in the money. Id personally take away the growler field hit invul and not nerf more. Unless of course you do the arcsys and change part of their playstyle to keep things fresh:p

[Airk]

If you played the character you would understand why he both needs those and why they aren't as good as you make them out to be.

 

If you played my character you would understand why he doesn't, or if he does, why other characters do too.

 

Also, what's this about 5BB having a sizable gap? 5B has 16 frames of blockstun and 5BB only has 13 frames of startup.  Are you trying to say it's a link? Because it can't be, it'd never combo.

[D.R.F.]

Yea airk we know tsubaki is terrible:( I hate being reminded. And also on IB (regular block even I think) you can mash outta that with a jab (maybe more, need to test that). It combos yea, but thats not the situation being discussed

[Airk]

Testing this right now.

 

Also, I have a hard time believing that something is both "needed" and "not good" :P

 

Edit: Tested.  Mashable only on IB, and only by characters with 5 frame jabs.

[D.R.F.]

Well they have varying levels of success in different circumstances. Very few stuff azrael does is true tbh. Also wasnt this thread about astral and how not useful they are? Lol

[Yaaay]

I'm pretty sure Rachel can also 5a Astral. No one ever does it because they're afraid of dropping the combo though. 

[Amegashita]

5A into astral is kind of hard to do on the fly, it's definitely possible, but why do 5a Astral, when you can do 5a, 5b, 5c, astral.  Gotta be safe

[Lucalibur]

If you played my character you would understand why he doesn't, or if he does, why other characters do too.

 

Also, what's this about 5BB having a sizable gap? 5B has 16 frames of blockstun and 5BB only has 13 frames of startup.  Are you trying to say it's a link? Because it can't be, it'd never combo.

Tsubaki needs a lot of shit, nobody ever denied that. The problem is you hating on every good character because yours is sitting inside the garbage can. I never played Tsubaki, true. A lot of people didn't. But a lot of people played low tier characters either in BB or somewhere else and understand the pain.

 

Azrael, by design, needs the stuff he has, and under his hands they aren't as broken as they might sound if taken out of context. With other chars they might be broken, such as a char with a run type dash having an easily accessible +5 normal. That would be silly, but it isn't the case here. Instead they're good and solid tools that allow him to play his game but don't make up for the weaknesses he has by design. He's a strong character while having glaring flaws, which implies smart design choices. He's a well designed character no matter how salty some folks get because they actually get punished for mashing buttons when fighting this guy.

 

People, please stop bitching about good characters just because yours is ass. Scream for your char getting buffed instead of everyone else getting nerfed. Nerfs are bad, they make games boring. People don't like losing options and that should be kept only for situations where you can't balance something through change.

 

I really didn't want to suddenly derail this admittedly already useless thread, but I'm just so tired of people picking every little reason they can get to complain about one of the only relatively fair top tier chars this franchise ever got.

[D.R.F.]

I mean we can always have extend ragna. J.A for 6K anyone?:D

[ArisatoGod]

I mean we can always have extend ragna. J.A for 6K anyone?:D

 Ahh the good days... 2C for easy 9k

[D.R.F.]

^ that shit is RIDICULOUS lol. I got started with cp tbh and I am glad I did lol. Even though I main rags anyway lol