Shaggy & Scooby Vs Ken

[Skye]

Ken Tools

• Ken uses the dog to reset/resume pressure.
• His j.b is very good, can often times beat Minazuki's j.b
• Good damage meterless, damage conversion is not as good unless he is in awakening.
• Ken's oki must be respected if he does it correctly

Minazuki Tools

• j.b beats his 2b under most circumstances
• 236b hits the dog
• 236ab combos the dog
• 2d FC his dp for optimal damage. KEN CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS EVEN IF HE HAS METER.
• IK punish also works
• Minazuki's high damage can destroy Ken's low health
• 236236d Can punish Ken's a Mortal Strike on normal block unless he makes it air tight with the dog.

 

Neutral summary

 

• Minazuki has to avoid the dog, Ken has to avoid Minazuki so they're constantly chasing and avoiding each other, If Ken tries to use the dog to get a free in, 236b, 2a, 5aa all will hit the mutt. If you keep the dog at bay, Ken is forced to approach, be wary of his j.b. You can 236c/d him at times since his AA isn't very good as the invul comes very late. Knives do a good job of keeping him in check and keeping the dog out of your face. j.2d is a viable strategy at times to remind him that he isn't safe fullscreen. Ken's dp is very high risk, small reward, so make him feel it if you bait it. 

 

Offense summary

 

• Ken has to respect Minazuki's buttons, he'll get hit otherwise, at certain ranges there is nothing he can do about j.b but to roll, and it's a free punish. Minazuki's 5a fully spaced will make Ken's dp whiff. Once he's trained to respect the normals, go for grabs/command grabs. Minazuki can easily knock out Ken before he awakens, so it wise to save your burst or meter for that time, the offensive game is one of patience and conditioning. Your block strings will hit the dog and eventually make him retreat. You will have to watch out for his dp if you're in too deep however. Manage your space control properly and you'll have your time to strike. 214b > 4b > 4ab is safe against Ken's dp, but not his awakening super, to be safe vs his awakening super you must do 214b > 4a > 4ab. I don't think Ken has any AUB normals, so 214b > 4b > air options is generally safe vs him.

 

Defense summary

 

• You don't want to be blocking Ken, his blockstrings are half screen if need be, and the gaps are few and far between and Ken can modify his strings on the fly to change where the gap is and how big it is to actually do anything. Don't look at Ken, look at the dog, the dog will make up for any recovery of Ken's moves, the dog has cooldown, so bear that in mind. Once you see your gap, jump out and return to neutral, if you think Ken is going to commit to resuming pressure, then go in for a free punish, Ken's moves has enough recovery for an iad to tag him. In most cases if the dog isn't already on you and Ken is running at you, you can 5a him fairly easily. Ken likes to over-commit to pressure and he has no mix up unless he gets close. You can downback everything and just stand up for his AoA which has Fatal Recovery, if he gets in close, remember he has a grab and you're good, plus he's suspect to dps that close up. Ken's pressure comes into light once he mixes up where his gaps are, to make you feel safe, then the dog gets you.

 

Oki summary

 

• A spaced 5a is your goto option if Ken has no meter, it will catch jump outs, make his dp whiff, if he rolls then he rolls right into you. Just memorize an air hit confirm if he tries to upback and take the 5a in hopes of getting away. Once he's respecting that, you can go for actual mix up. but 5a is very safe until he has meter. Just watch out for desperate supers.

 

Shadow Specific Details

 

• He can't burst your shit.

 

Ratio    5.5/4.5 :comingsoon:

[Skye]

lmk if any of you disagree with any of this and why.

[Guymam]

Dog is a physical hit.

 

So that means...

[Skye]

214214x works.

I found this out a few days ago myself. Ken definitely has to make sure his shit is air tight when we have meter.

[Justice7541]

lmk if any of you disagree with any of this and why.

 

I may not be the best authority on this since I seem to have Minazuki pegged as much weaker than a lot of other people in general, but I'm confident this much is true at least:

 

- Ken's DP is high-risk, true, but it's not low-reward.  In fact, it's pretty much the opposite, he can take a CH DP anywhere on screen into a full combo (about 2.5k meterless, I've gotten as much as 4.3k with 150 meter) and end it with setplay vortex.  When in doubt, either play it safe by baiting it or at least do something that isn't likely to be counterhit, getting hit by Ken's DP sucks.

 

- If you block Ken's DP, you need to dash up 5C as he comes down to punish.  Alternatively, if Koromaru is close enough to you when you block his DP, you can disable him with 2A then punish with a normal that doesn't put you too close to him.  Otherwise, Ken can cancel into SB Fire Breath shortly before touching the ground, which is + on block, or land into Thunder Reign, which hits behind him.

 

- Ken's 5A is actually 1f faster than yours and it has really good range too.  Minazuki's 5A will usually win in the general course but you have to space it well.  If you are too close Ken can easily out-5A you into any of his unreasonably high-damage meterless confirms into setplay vortex and then you're dead and sad.

 

- I notice you didn't mention 2B which is probably your best tool vs. Ken aerial approach in this matchup.  Ken's j.B is huge but the hurtbox is actually pretty bad, so he will normally rely on Koro to cover him as he jumps in.  Minazuki/Sho 2B easily stuffs both Koro and Ken at the same time due to its huge hitbox, long active frames, and loads of head invul.  Just be careful that he doesn't start baiting it by faking an air approach and landing into 5B or something.

[Skye]

2d is a viable and optimal punish on Ken's dp, it will stuff the dog super and Ken doesn't have to land for the punish to work so spear super isn't a factor. I don't think his dp nets a reward that makes the risk worth it, he can lose 4k meterless, 5k with [25 sp + burst] or 75 sp and up to 6k with 100 sp + burst or 7k with 150, and the 4 & 5k punishes are very practical as far as resources and situations, the 4k one specifically on Ken.

Ken's 5a isn't a major worry namely because he extends his hurt box, the 1 frame difference usually doesn't matter that case unless you're TAS enough to exploit it, his 5b is his most threatening normal because of the range active frames and second hitbox that can serve as an anti air, mashing iad punishes hard. To whiff punish 5b, a yomi roll is required + prayer that the dog won't hit you out of your roll.

I didn't mention 2b namely because I actually don't feel 100% comfortable with it as an AA, combine that with Ken's protected jump ins and it's a sticky situation. I'd sooner air grab or dp Ken then try to AA him on a consistent basis. That said I have landed successful AAs, so it's not a worthless note to put in.

I plan on revising this thread as the development of the MU makes me think this more in Ken's favor than Minazuki's at this point. Just slight, 5.5/4.5. Both have to work hard and Minazuki is fairly balanced in offense and defense, and while Ken I think has an imbalance, his defense is subpar, but his offense is very good, often crippling. I've lost rounds just blocking Ken, not completely sure when and where to strike a counter measure/evasive maneuver. It's a very dynamic game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, Kamehameha.

[Skye]

Your input is appreciated, forgot to add that in!