[P4AU] Ken Amada Wiki Discussion

[mixedmethods]

Welcome to the "why don't we have a shiny, info-packed page like Narukami" thread. In order to keep wiki-related posts from being buried in the gameplay thread and for ease of coordination, all discussion related to Ken's wiki page now belongs here.

If you'd like to contribute to the actual editing of the page, please drop a post in here so that all editors can work together and avoid clashes. Frame data calculations, damage numbers, cancel options, and any other relevant information can be posted here so that wiki editors can easily add it to the page. If you've spotted an error, disagree with a moves's description, or have any other feedback, please post here so necessary corrections and edits can be made ASAP.

Current Editors

mixedmethods (primary editor)

Avarspike (??)

Unless someone else would like to play martyr and should we get new editors, I'll coordinate tasks. If there's a particular section you want updated, let me know; I'm doing my best to collect and migrate info, but it's a long list. Under the cut, I've broken down the various pieces of Ken's wiki and the work left to be completed. If a section is marked "done," all the relevant info has been written up and formatted, but errors may lurk and edits for ease of reading/style/clarity are welcome. If something is tagged as "reserved," it means someone else has already started work on that area and to leave it be until their text is posted, at which point you're welcome to revise it.

Ken's Dustloop Wiki page.

Wiki writing guide.

Collapsed: Status check and to-do list:

Introduction: Done! Background text will likely be edited after North American console release.

Overview: Done!

Normals: Format to Wiki standards. Add attribute, guard, damage values, cancel options. (May require testing.) Descriptions needed for some moves. Section isn't far from completion. (Yay!)

System Commands: Add AoA and throw frame data, damage. Note Fatal Recovery on AoA, input reversals for throw. Add description, cancel, attribute, guard for DP, AoA, throw.

Specials: Add confirmed frame data. Include damage. Test cancel, guard, attribute. (Damage for some Koromaru skill attacks variable based on number of hits... include max damage and note discrepancy?)

Supers: Descriptions needed. *reserved by mixedmethods. (Almost complete....)

All areas need edits to conform to wiki standards!

Koromaru:

* 2D and 5D need to be merged.

* Damage, attribute, guard for commands.

* Add 9:02 AM's frame data results. (Note variability due to positioning.)

Strategy: Need to solicit feedback from several players before finalizing this.

Tips & Tricks: Combos, safe-jump set-ups still developing. Rather than having to edit this 500 times in 10 days as new tech is found, would prefer to see info solidfy before posting it, particularly since non-regulars will read the wiki before the threads.

Combos: See above. Need to separate and note "basic/challenge" combos. Hoping to keep this section from growing out of control.

Images: Would be nice, waiting for American console release to panic.

Full Frame Data: ... I wish we had it. Some parts of gatling table confirmed by Skype chat.

I don't mind being the one to migrate and write-up info for the wiki, so corrections and data are always appreciated if you don't want to wade into wiki formatting and editing!

[VR-Raiden]

[mixedmethods]

Thanks so much, VR-Raiden. That's even better!

I'm going to add a to-do list to the opening post so that if anyone wants a particular task, I can note it.

[mixedmethods]

Mediarama: A heals Ken ~100HP, B ~200HP, SB is speed of A with regen of B. Possible to confirm numbers via prior tests with boss mode Ken? (Boss mode = 2000HP with Mediarama B, so assuming a stable multiplier...)

[VR-Raiden]

I'm getting 236236A/A+B and 214214A/A+B to be 7f. They punish Narukami 236A(-5) on IB, but do not punish Narukami 214A(-4) on IB.

B+D is 15f. Punishes Narukami 214C+D(-13) on IB, not S.Mitsuru 5AAA(-14) on normal block.

Guard Cancel Attack is somewhere bettwen -19 and -22 on block. Ken 236A+B(19f) punishes on normal block, 236B(25f) does not punish on IB. Knocks down on CH. Opponent can air tech on normal hit (may even be advantage if they forward tech at you).

This is assuming those values are right in the other wikis, they seem to be at least.

[mixedmethods]

Frame data added! You're a hero to your men and, uh, woman.

7f explains why 214214x was catching backdashes... and 236236x being 7f feels right, but, Jesus, that's almost too good. So now we know why it's FR. God help anyone who mistimes a safe-jump against Ken ... Thunder Reign may be a very high-risk/high-reward option. Katana Jesus help you if you get baited, though.

[mixedmethods]

Damage numbers are up. Nothing earth shattering, but they're there now.

Ultimate Cross is basically a faster Cross Slash, right down to the cancel options (OMC on block only).

[VR-Raiden]

Worth noting about Gigantic Impact (236A/B->A/B), the SB version has the persona disappear significantly faster than A or B versions, making it pretty hard to hit in comparison.

Some other properties while I'm at it:

A: 800 damage. Floor splat on hit (dunno if that's the proper term). Fatal Counters. High floor bounce on Fatal Counter. Fastest startup.

B: 1400 damage. Floor bounce on hit. Fatal Counters. High floor bounce on Fatal Counter. Slowest startup.

SB: 1600 damage. Floor bounce on hit. Fatal Counters. High floor bounce on Fatal Counter. Faster than B, slower than A.

Also on Thunder Reign and Ultimate Cross, the B versions are slower than A or SB versions. Both can be rolled after flash, so in reality they are probably 4+3 startup, or 3+4, or something like that.

[mixedmethods]

Yeah, I know there's some trade-off in the B versions -- invuln? start-up vs. recovery? pre- and post- flash numbers? -- but I can't nail it down. Recovery feels slower on Thunder B, but I can't say by how much. Same story with Fire Breath D, but recovery on that move is odd in general since you can have Ken in one corner and Koromaru in the other... bad dog.

[VR-Raiden]

So in the overview under play style it lists "Anti-zoning". From what I've seen and experienced so far, I don't agree. It feels like he actually struggles against heavy zoning since you can't rely on Koromaru at neutral as well. Unless I'm playing him totally wrong.

I suppose it depends if the character's zoning tools hit Koromaru easily, but in certain matches it feels like you have to put him out cause he can get destroyed so easily by some moves. I think that alone makes it not accurate to call him anti-zoning.

[mixedmethods]

I agree. I also don't think "anti-zoning" is an actual playstyle or clarifies much. So I'm going to remove that edit. I think I get the spirit of what the editor was trying to convey but Ken's anti-zoning options belong in a strategy discussion.

Thanks to shtkn for our lovely images. (I tried... the modly ones are much better.) I'm finishing the write-up on all his moves right now and I'll keep an eye out for anything that needs tweaking.

(Sorry for delays. I became ill and I'll probably be ill for another few months. )

[VR-Raiden]

No worries I can start adding things here and there myself too. Would be cool if Avarspike would join the conversation in here.

[A.X.I.S.]

Thunder reign and ultimate cross has more invul on D versions but more startup.

[Eternal Blaze]

Thunder reign and ultimate cross has more invul on D versions but more startup.

You mean B versions I'm assuming?

coz both these moves are done with A or B.

[A.X.I.S.]

You mean B versions I'm assuming?

coz both these moves are done with A or B.

 

Sorry Yeah B versions I mean.

[VR-Raiden]

Made some edits to a couple moves(including that note on Ultimate Cross) and added P combo table to his frame data page.