Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Nehle

AC: Okizeme

Recommended Posts

Discuss ΛC okizeme here.

For those just new to Dizzy - okizeme is really where Dizzy shines and it's from here you'll do the most damage to your opponent. Dizzy okizeme is all about planning. There's no way you can freestyle at all as much as, say, Ky. In many cases your entire input for the next seconds will already be planned once the opponent rises. If you plan and practice you can have endless possibilities to hurt and scare your opponents, but if you just improvise, there's a very good chance your corner pressure, and the match for that matter, will slip through your fingers.

Read this if you don't understand the notation

These are some of the more common okizemes dizzy players use. But like I said, the possibilities are endless.

Note that no followup combos are listed here, you'll have to figure those out on your own, but most of them can successfully be followed up by either 2k or S.c into standard knockdown and reset. Also note that many of these are not autocombos and you'll have to prepare to go to combo earlier if the opponent accidentally ate a hit before they've come to end

CORNER OKI

Whenever it says "High/Low mixup" it means you can either do an airdash j.2s j.H or land 2k

For almost all these, when it says airdash 2s, the 2s has to be done as early as possible to allow for a high/low mixup

HP Fish:

214H,P, dash 2k, laser, dash 2k 5s, jump, fish bite, j.2s 214K, fish bite

|_ ad.2s (pops bubble), High/Low mixup

|_ fall a bit, dj.k (pops bubble), High/Low mixup

|_ land 2k

|_ land throw

214H,P, dash 2k, laser, S.c 5H

|_ 236S

|_ (on hit) Knockdown combo

|_ (on block) P/K Bubble, dj.K (pops bubble), High/Low mixup

|_ 5D

HK Fish

214H,K IAD j.2s

|_ ad.2s j.H

|_ (if blocked) TK bubble, dj.K, High/Low mixup

|_ land 2k

Spear (Works in Slash too)

TK Bubble, 421 (pops bubble) IAD

|_ j.H, land

|_ j.P (fuzzy guard) ]S[ j.H

|_ land 2k ]S[

|_ j.H 214K, j.K land ]S[ summon fish

|_ backdash j.H ]S[ dash 2k

MIDSCREEN OKI

214H,X, short dash, jump (over opponent)

|_ land 2k

|_ backdash late j2s

214H,H delayed IAD (past opponent), laser, IAD back j.2S j.H, land

|_(on hit)

|_c.S, laser, 2K 2h 236H

|_2H > 421 j.H > 214K ]S[, land, j.S j.D

Does not work on all characters, list pending

|_(on block)

|_j.P (fuzzy guard), laser, (j.2S) j.H |> 2H 236H

|_2k dash, laser, 2k 2H 236H

I'll add more as I come across it

The Slash P fish alternating kick/bite thing does not work as before (someone may come with a way to handle this?) because the bites are slightly further apart and the gap between the first and the second P pattern makes it a bit more troublesome, but it might be doable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much as I hate the delay between bites and extension bites, the gap does make it easier to fish for CH 2H XX delayed spear combos, though adjusting for the bites might be kinda odd. That's the first thing that comes to mind for adjusting to the new gaps. It's harder to have super-ambiguous-throw mixups with the larger bite gaps, but eh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much as I hate the delay between bites and extension bites, the gap does make it easier to fish for CH 2H XX delayed spear combos, though adjusting for the bites might be kinda odd. That's the first thing that comes to mind for adjusting to the new gaps. It's harder to have super-ambiguous-throw mixups with the larger bite gaps, but eh.

That's a very interesting thought, I couldn't see anything positive with PP but that might just work if you don't do it often enough (say once every 4-5 games?).

What I really miss is the autocombo you got as soon as random hit landed. And you could always (even if they got hit) go for a tick throw. The 2H CH baiting might not be risky, but if it's not a CH you've just given them a get-out-of-jail-free card. Of course if they block they just gave you a homing pike fore free :)

Right now it feels like unless the opponent has extremely low health, they might as well take an early hit because a 2H will allow them to escape ( fish lvl1 will let them tech ) and if you don't 2H then you won't be able to connect with the fish after the gap anyways so they can go back to blocking D:

My advice is stay away from the PP fish pattern oki until something more solid has been discovered there. Or at least do it seldom enough so that the aforementioned 2H CH baiting will have a higher chance of connecting

This thread's off to a good start, keep it coming :kitty:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well now that I've got to touch AC, this installment of Dizzy is t3h gudness. She feels more "complete" now. j.2s is just too good, and FB bubble seems like an awesome way to throw in some extra keep away pressure. H/P fish seems to be the best oki fish setup thus far to me. Wonderful for advancing strings, and good cover as well. Her projectile wall got stronger IMO, which is a good thing. I really like those strings you posted Nehle. Once I get some time to actually fool around with her some more, I'll post anything I find that isn't posted already. :keke:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's another oki based off the HP fish in corner. Good thing is that it is an autocombo off random hit, but the bad thing is that it doesn't offer quite as good mixups as the other one Knockdown in corner: 214H,P dash 2k, laser, dash S.c 5H 236S If they block, FRC the 236S and go for homing pike or bubble. If they're hit, proceed into knockdown combo and restart 236S can also be substituted for 5D Edit: More training suggests that if it's blocked, after 236S do TK P/K bubble, dj.K(towards opponent, bubble pops) > High/Low mixup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I need to ring in on corner oki stuff, so here we go. Something I was messing with earlier. Corner Bubbleloop: -H/P fish, (lazer), late IAD j.2s, j.hs (bite), k bubble, land (bite/pop), airspike (hold), j.hs, TK k bubble (release), j.k, land, j.p, j.s, jc j.s, j.d (2 hits) Still need to test a bit more, but it's a slightly different take on a bubbleloop thus far. More to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, ladies & gents. GG AC Dizzy rocks, yada, so good, yada, complete!, yada. Just started this week to invest some time into AC and Dizzy. So here is a foretaste of my fruits of labor. No quicky, written of a movie, match vid oki. :kitty: But a wholly thought through oki. Ok, not really new, since its been there since XX, but it was so character specific PLUS easy to get out IF you knew. Basicaly looked this this. > Mid screen Throw, beam HS, running jump over opponent 1. land and 2K, ... (low) 2. before land, IAD back + air K, ground combo LoL at both cuz for : 1. if opponent IBs beam, Dizzy gets throw on ground. 2. jump K is one of the shittiest moves in the game. Funny that it can even hit something. Opponent could just jump out (block beam mid air and immediately hits ground after) OR just stand or crouch guard if you were Faust, Millia, etc. Fast forward to AC Dizzy. Same stuff. Mid screen Throw., beam HS (add. input is optional & combos resulting from it coming soon), now you have to kinda run few steps before you do running jump over opponent (ill tell you why later). 1. land and 2K, ... 2. before land, IAD back + 2S, ground combo ok, not much difference, right? Wrong! 1. If opponent IBs beam, and you land, 2K > cant throw Dizzy (i tried this against Pot and Dizzy. sometimes I can throw, still trying to find out why it sometimes does) 2. If opponents jumps away the moment he gets up, he blocks beam mid air right after leaving the ground (I tried jump + IB, rejump, doesnt work :D) and lands immediately. Then he has to immediately block high or low during short fall, depending which oki variation you did (land 2K or IAD 2S). From what I can tell, 1. works better now since beam fish hits later and 2. is obvious. Now I said b4 that you had to kinda run few steps before running jump. Reason is. I f you dont do that, what can happen is, you dont cross over opponent (which could screw up your timings, confuse you) or if he jumps right after getting up, opponents gets away easily. Now it gets better. Vulcanic Vipers and Co. are always everybodys bane. Even for those that have "protected" rushes. Now, if a Sol decides to VV himself out on wake while Dizzy does the above > if he does normal VV input front, he will hit the fish but not Dizzy. If he knows you´re going to cross and does the VV input to the back in advance ... well ... you just hear COUNTER or GROUNDO VIPER (which goes in the wrong direction, away from Dizzy). Either way, its Win:Win! So here you have it, a good mid screen oki! :yaaay: More to come in future. PS @ Nehle. Old Slash beam front back oki still sucks. Old way to get out doesnt work (got counter measure) BUT there is a new way ... :?::( Well, it does work against a couple of characters still ... I think (those that get up late). Looking into it. PS2 Is it me or is K fish hella meaty?! Im looking into possible wake up okis with meaty K fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, against Pot and Dizzy works too the low oki. I thought was a throw range factor, but realised i was just off w/ the timings. And something i discovered while lokking into above. If Pot tries back dash + throw on wake up, then its combo time for Dizzy. Beam + both okis will hit him out of his back dash at end. Also tried this against Testas OD and Inos OD (which has hit box at the back ... I think) on wake up. Dizzy doesnt get hit. So she is kinda safe high up behind opponents head. PS. Ok. im tired and gonna play PSU now. Also just remembered I should try this VS. slayers dash cancels. So more to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno if this was posted yet, but here is an oki I've been messing with. I've been trying to find some new ones that I don't really see that often, when I do, I'll post them here:

  • 214H k, IAD.2S, lazor fish
  • AD.2S, j.H, bitey fish, -|>, dash c.S, 6P, 421, IAD j.H, 214k, ]s[, j.K(if bubble doesn't pop), -|>, back up a little, 5H, 236H. (226 dam and knockdown)
  • 2K ?????? profit
  • Throw and start all over.

I'm having a problem coming up with a goot string with this setup that uses 2K, goes into one iteration of the bubble loop, then get the knock down.

You can go 2K, c.S, 5H, 2H, 236H, however, this doesn't give you enough time to summon another fish right after knock down unless you FRC the icepike and f.S 236H.

Any suggestions?

*EDIT* I noticed that not all characters are able to be hit with 412S after 6P. Gotta figure out something else that leads into corner bubble loops for other characters T_T

Will work on these characters:

Jam, Zappa, Chipp, Millia, May, Testament, Baiken, Faust, Potemkin

Will not work on these characters:

Axl, Dizzy, Anjo, Aba, Johnny, Slayer, Sol, HOS, Ky, Robo Ky, Eddie, Venom, Ino.

It seems that 6P cannot combo into 421S on most of the cast....bleh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little late, but the first part is covered by the oki thread and the last part is covered by the combos thread Please, guys, learn the difference between combos and okizeme :I:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are some good fuzzy guard setups? I'm trying to figure some out as oki...but I can't really get it down T_T Any tip?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corner: 421 IAD j.H, land > j.P ]S[, j.H land > combo

Midscreen: 214H~X, TK P bubble, airdash over j.H, land > j.P (pops bubble), land combo

Also, as a bonus, a one-bubble iteration that gets knockdown and works on all non-lights

214H~P, dash 2k, bite, dash c.S 6P, 421S, TK K bubble, j.H.

Good thing is that it will give you just as much time before their wakeup as an FRC'd ice spike, but tension free. Bad thing is that it's too fast so you can't get a new fish summon immediately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Know any videos that show examples of these/other ones? Thanks for the combos, it's really helping me wrap my head around fuzzy guards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the first two are pretty basic, so not unless you find them in matchvids. The third one I came up with just days ago. I'm sure other people already know it, but I haven't seen them in videos I have been thinking about making a Dizzy guide vid for some time, but Shinjin still has the capping card, so not until I can have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

arigth so i've been thinking about oki set-ups and hit confirming into comboes. It seems sometimes when the opponent is in the corner and i set up a H,P on wakeup, i mess up my opportunity for a combo and i lose the knockdown. For example: May is in corner, as she is getting up i use H,P fish to hit her I IAD J.2S early in order to do the double airdash, howver the May player decides to try to poke me and gets hit by my J2.S, as i was alredy planning for the double-air dash, alot of times i dont have enougth time to gattle J.H with enougth time for it to combo so i can continue the combo into the ground. Is there a special way to hit-cofirm my J.H just in case my first J.2S hits withouth wasting my window to do the double airdash? I thougth about using negative edge, but you can use negative edge for normals:( Or do you have to jsut react quick enougth to do the second air-dash withougth falling to the ground?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you talk about j.H, do you mean using j.H after your first j.2S? Not too sure what you mean. But anyway, if you time it right the 2nd airdash into j.2S > j.H actually combos, but realistically this won't happen all the time. You can, however, hit confirm your first j.2S and if it did hit, just land and 2K which will continue the combo. BTW doing that IAD j.2S against May is very dangerous, as she can wake up with 6P and counterhit you regardless of the fish, and we all know what happens to Dizzy when you eat May's 6P :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you talk about j.H, do you mean using j.H after your first j.2S? Not too sure what you mean.

But anyway, if you time it right the 2nd airdash into j.2S > j.H actually combos, but realistically this won't happen all the time. You can, however, hit confirm your first j.2S and if it did hit, just land and 2K which will continue the combo.

BTW doing that IAD j.2S against May is very dangerous, as she can wake up with 6P and counterhit you regardless of the fish, and we all know what happens to Dizzy when you eat May's 6P :(

yeah i meant being able to hit confirm if the first J.2S hits to do J.H or if it dint to continue with the second J.2S

and i've played a May player and he's never hit me during Oki with a 6P and i've believe he's tried, but anyway's thanks for the tip i'll try to hit confirm with 2k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May's 6P is dangerous in the following situation:

You've just comboed May into the corner, and ended with icespike knockdown (no FRC). Then you summon 214H~(x) > IAD > j.2S. Oftentimes May will have enough time to 6P on wakeup before your j.2S meaties.

Keep in mind though that I didn't experience this in a matchup, I just went to training mode and set May on 6P (by turning on auto for the punch button), then tried this oki pattern. Tried 5 times, all 5 times got CH by 6P. So not 100% certain this is the case against May players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well againts chracteres with good 6P's i ussually use K,P fish setup that way theyhit the fish with 6P and i get to hit them with my J.2S:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I love switching H~P with K~P on okizeme, it really screws with their mind because of the timing differences, which allows for a lot of throws :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh BTW I've been writing down a really long list of okizeme patterns to use on a variety of characters, with some really interesting ones. I haven't been in training mode recently so I haven't added any new ones to the list aside from Roboky, and that was only because after playing roboky I became really frustrated at the delayed wakeup so decided to see what I could do about it :p And also the fact that roboky's wakeup srk hits dizzy instead of fish (possibly because of low hitboxes), totally unlike Sol and Ky's srk. Dunno by now I'm starting to ramble so POINT WAS I'll probably add them to the strat guide or this thread once I'm patient enough to do so :psyduck:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys think of: kd, 421+s(hold), dash, 6hs(2), s release, IAD. into --> j2s release spear -> land 2k? or just IAD land/release spear 2k? 6hs is jc but it also provides alot of blockstun. If you're using 421s as an oki you can be brave and try j2s as you're going going and release meaty spear.. alternatively I like do cross over jumps into AD backwards j2s land 2k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Usually I release the spear right after the second hit of 6hs to keep my IAD safe afterwards. But then it kind of loses it's steam because it turns into the basic mix-up from there without any items out. I suppose I could go for iad 2s bubble shenanigans afterwards tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys think of: kd, 421+s(hold), dash, 6hs(2), s release, IAD.

If the KD is in the corner and the 6hs hits, you could possibly follow up with a combo into bubble loop if you do IAD jH>j214K>release Air Pike>bubble pop>land>bubble loop/air combo finish. Or if the 6hs is blocked, just release the Air Pike for cover instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×