Wake Up Reversal

[SquizzleBopped]

Coming from USF4 where wake up reversals can be mashed out by a baby in a bumper car; I'm having a real tough time learning the strict format it takes in this game. Now before all the "L2Practice mode noob" I've been doing Mission Mode challenge 14 for around 4 hours over the last two days and cant get it. I would kill for a tutorial that used some type of visual cue or even audio cue like they had in BB. It is my opinion that wake up reversal should be a hard read and a tool in your book, not a VIP club so strict that its closed off to some players.

 

TLDR; All whinning aside, any help tips/trick audio/visual cues for wake up reversals, any videos or tutorials, when can I buffer the DP motion and when can I mash the S/HS?

[Orrax]

Be sure to tap the button, not press it. Xrd should accept negative edged inputs, similar to older GGXX games (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), so by tapping a button, you give yourself a two-frame window instead of a 1-frame window.

 

Moreover, if you're using a character with a DP for two buttons (e.g. Sol's S VV and H VV), you can input 623 [H] ]S[ ]H[ (I hope that notation is right for holding and then releasing a button) and give yourself a 4-frame window, two for pressing the two buttons and then two for releasing them.

 

 

EDIT: According to king of heart's post below, Xrd does not accept negative edge. So, you'll either have to double tap the button or input, with Sol, S then H together to make the window longer.

[BlackYakuzu94]

For the record, the reason its difficult is because there's no input buffer in this game like in other FGs, so you can't just use the input in the middle of your wake up. I'd say wait until you're back in the neutral state, THEN do the reversal.

[GaijinMo]

Never thought I'd live to see a request for a video or tutorial for wakeup DP... but here we are.

 

In my opinion, it's a bad habit to press both buttons when two variants of a move are not identical in properties, which is the case with VV. Try double-tapping the button that you do want with two fingers. Create as little contact time with the button as possible while having the presses close together.

[SquizzleBopped]

I'm glad youre alive for this day haha. I'm by no means a scrub but still not a pro, just find wake up reversal timing to be super unforgiving and if someone else had come across this same conclusion years months or days prior and found a rhythm or flow to the timing for it then Id encourage them to share it with everyone else. Hell, theres like a 8 post long thread on Mission Mode 14 on the Mission thread so im not alone in this.

[king of heart]

Xrd doesn't accept the negative edge.

Even Arcade version of +R.

It was a development mistake in the console version.

[Aze]

Xrd doesn't accept the negative edge.

Even Arcade version of +R.

It was a development mistake in the console version.

So does that imply that it might come back if it's a mistake?

 

I used to do wake up ODs and find it really difficult this time around.

[king of heart]

The home version on AC+R had negative edge while the Arcade doesn't.

[Orrax]

Xrd doesn't accept the negative edge.

Even Arcade version of +R.

It was a development mistake in the console version.

 

Good to know, thanks.

[Dusk Thanatos]

Coming from USF4 where wake up reversals can be mashed out by a baby in a bumper car; I'm having a real tough time learning the strict format it takes in this game. Now before all the "L2Practice mode noob" I've been doing Mission Mode challenge 14 for around 4 hours over the last two days and cant get it. I would kill for a tutorial that used some type of visual cue or even audio cue like they had in BB. It is my opinion that wake up reversal should be a hard read and a tool in your book, not a VIP club so strict that its closed off to some players.

 

TLDR; All whinning aside, any help tips/trick audio/visual cues for wake up reversals, any videos or tutorials, when can I buffer the DP motion and when can I mash the S/HS?

 

In the meantime, while you get used to the timing, you could try mashing throw when you can get away with it, since it'll be easier to input and time. Obviously, a throw is -not- a DP (despite throws being 0f startup in GG), and certain moves are throw invul that your DP would beat (nevermind the throw range being smaller), but it's something you can use some of the time, at least.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

FYI this game does have an input buffer, it's just very short. In old X2 games it was 1F long (so you had a 2F reversal window), I don't know if it's the same in this game or not but reversals are definitely not a 1F window.

Lack of negative edge does make reversals a lot harder now though.

[SquizzleBopped]

No idea how to quote, hope this works:

Dusk Thanatos, you can't while mashing can you? You need to be standing and mash on right?

[Uncivilized Elk]

I've been doing Mission Mode challenge 14 for around 4 hours over the last two days and cant get it. 

According to a person in the Mission thread itself, that mission removes the buffering present for wake-up DPs that is normally present in the game

[king of heart]

According to a person in the Mission thread itself, that mission removes the buffering present for wake-up DPs that is normally present in the game

I don't think so because i was really suffering with this oki when i started playing on Arcades but now i get it like 50% of the times (one of the missions that i couldn't score a S in yet lol) that's why i prefer blocking it when i play against a strong Ky player.

[Yukikaze]

 I never had a problem with HD remix 1 frame reversals. There is certainly something off here, it may be how they disable your control of Sol for X frames.

[Uncivilized Elk]

I don't think so because i was really suffering with this oki when i started playing on Arcades but now i get it like 50% of the times (one of the missions that i couldn't score a S in yet lol) that's why i prefer blocking it when i play against a strong Ky player.

Nah I take back my comment - I agree with ya. I just set up a tight scenario in training mode to try and reversal and christ is it hard. I'm having a way easier time doing Blitz Shield than doing a super or DP.

+R had ludicrous amounts of buffering compared to this, I'm suffering pretty hard. 

Guess I'll only try to reversal players worse than me because I eat hits 90% of the time otherwise.

[Sashi]

Wait until you actually see your character standing up. Do it as late as possible. If you just watch someone doing a meaty, it's hella late in the wakeup animation when you actually wakeup.

[Uncivilized Elk]

My eyes must then suck because it feels like the moment I'm standing up I'm already hit...

[SquizzleBopped]

Trust me guys I'm with you, for any Sin players I use the animation of him pounding his hand on the ground in frustration as he gets up as my visual cue to start the motion.  Still far from perfect though and I would never rely on it in a real match, its too strict to use as a tool in my arsenal.

[GaijinMo]

I'm glad youre alive for this day haha. I'm by no means a scrub but still not a pro, just find wake up reversal timing to be super unforgiving and if someone else had come across this same conclusion years months or days prior and found a rhythm or flow to the timing for it then Id encourage them to share it with everyone else. Hell, theres like a 8 post long thread on Mission Mode 14 on the Mission thread so im not alone in this.

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to sound like a jerk or anything. I just meant that in the old days of fighting games, wakeup reversals were so ubiquitous among beginners, but their ease in SF4 has made them a legitimate talking point for the first time.

 

People are making a surprisingly small deal out of negative edge being omitted. I don't see it being mentioned in any other thread at all. Shouldn't we be more vocal about having that addressed in the upcoming patch?

[SquizzleBopped]

As we've read it wasn't an actual game design or intention even when it was included in +R so it'd be a hard sell to make, but I agree.

[TheRealBobMan]

My eyes must then suck because it feels like the moment I'm standing up I'm already hit...

 

Yeah... it takes a certain amount of time for your brain to interpret what you're seeing.  If you wait until you're fully standing to attempt to reversal, you're already vulnerable.  What's "on time" is actually a slight bit earlier than what you see.  Sometimes you'll reversal throw a jump in with such timing that it looks like they're still airborne...  then bam, they're being ground thrown.  I threw a burst yesterday where I was visually above the player who bursted, but bursts cause you to rise so the character had probably gone above me right as I threw.

 

The other thing is that everyone has a different wake up timing (unless that's changed - someone should do some recordings and find out what they are for us).  I'm used to doing a 632146H input to reversal with I-No, so trying to do 623S with Sol or S+H with Sol wakeup timing is borderline impossible for me.  When I manage to reversal BS against the buzz saw I can throw Zato in that one mission/challenge thing like 80% of the time, but I only get the reversal BS maybe 20% of the time.  If you changed characters in Xrd that might be giving you a hard time too.

[greatfernman]

 find out what they are for us

face up / face down

SO：53F / 49F

KY：51F / 49F

MA：53F / 50F

MI：53F / 51F　

ZT：53F / 50F

PO：52F / 50F

CH：58F / 52F

FA：53F / 57F

AX：53F / 49F

VE：49F / 54F

SL：54F / 48F

IN：52F / 48F

BE：52F / 58F

RA：53F / 51F

SI：58F / 49F

EL：55F / 55F

courtesy of kedako

 

they're also already on the wiki

[Horokei]

I checked reversal timings for various things except throws.

Backdash, BS, DP and OD has 2f windows.

[SquizzleBopped]

Honestly I think BD wouldnt be a terrible option, You can mash it like all the pros suggest lol. But honestly on a char with a great backdash like Sin it seems like a legitimate option.