Errol

they call me the netplay rachel by the time you block 5b you've already been hit by j.a... or something...

Nope, that wasn't badlime.

ggs to quagh.

another note is that since you can choose if you want to get hit by the projectile or by the jump attack, if they made the projectile a horrible starter, you could choose that. Similar to Koko's black hole vs rolling into trap or fireball stuff to reduce the damage.

The way I'm thinking about it is that both jump and projectile have an origin. Jump is Origin on the Left side of the Screen Projectile is Origin on the Right side of the screen. if the crossup hits them when carmine is on the left side of the screen, they have to block right. If the crossup hits them when carmine is on the right side of the screen.. well. The crossup doesn't hit them. The projectile hits them, because they are holding right when carmine is to the right of them, and the projectile Origin is Right. Block Right -> Carmine Right -> Proj Origin Right -> Projectile Hits Block Left -> Carmine Left -> Jump Origin Left -> Jump Attack Hits It seems to me that the crossup protection is all working as designed, but it works independently. Neither of these attacks provides any mixup on their own. If you hold right, you will always block the jump attack, and if you hold left, you will always block the projectile. The problem, of course, is that if you try to block the projectile, you can get hit by the jump attack , and vice versa. The mixup is still a normal attack on the left (crossup protection doesn't kick in) vs a double crossup on the right (projectile). If you hold right, you will block both the projectile, and the jump attack, until the point where he crosses you over. then you can get hit by the projectile. If you could instantly blockswitch to left when he crosses over you, you could completely avoid the mixup (note, completely theoretical). So, right now, if my understanding is right, even if he hits you on the left, if you don't switch blocking quick enough you can still get hit by the projectile. an auto guard for left/right would get rid of this aspect. But, as far as I can tell, this wouldn't completely get rid of the mixup - it would make it behave like Orie's, basically. So long as you blocked the first hit, you'd be good. The mixup would be strictly about getting hit by carmine on the left, or the projectile as he crosses over to the right. The only thing I can think of that they could do specifically with projectiles is to detect the double crossup situation and in that case, still make the projectile blockable in both directions. They could do the same thing with jump attacks, but that's mostly Orie that can do double crossup off a single jump and it's a reasonable, not king of grime mixup. Last, I think we're talking about semantics with Orie's j2C. it has a significant left/right mixup to it. It's also got pressure. It provides a trap - you generally can't mash out of option a with the same thing you use to beat option B. You'll get hit and punished hard. It also mixes up inputs so you can't DP etc easily. It's got a nice total package. You can't just split out the mixup and the pressure, the mixup is good because the pressure is good.

TKs are considered 'jumpins' now? It is a left/right mixup. The reason that it is a left/right mixup is for exactly the same reason you can use projectiles for left/right mixup. Orie leaves the ground on the right side of the screen. Normally anything you do in the air triggers crossup protection. You can block it by holding left, even if they end up on the left side of the screen. You can also block it with right. However, if you cross back over again, a double cross over, you can only block it in the original direction. i.e. Left. It becomes left/right mixup because after crossing over ONCE, Orie may or may not cross back over. J214B -> crosses BACK over, must block with LEFT. 2A -> Orie doesn't cross over, hits with 2a, must block with RIGHT. Neither Orie's left/right mixup nor Carmine's is made possible by the crossup protection, they're both possible *in spite of* the crossup protection. In both cases, you're talking about getting hit by a normal that must be blocked with right, or getting hit by a crossup-protection affected move (a projectile or an air move) with left. The difference is, I think, that carmine's mixup is very tight - there's no time to react. You pick one or the other. Orie's mixup is also left/right, but it's slow enough to be reactable. You need to be able to see a 23 frame move in order to react to it, as far as I can tell. In terms of system changes, because Orie's mixup is slow enough, an autoguard window for left/right is unlikely to do anything to change it. Carmine's is different on that point.

Did you just say jump in? Do you realize that this crossup is not started by a jump in? How many more times do you have to say something wrong that I have to point out is wrong before you CONSIDER that you MIGHT be wrong? This is a Left/Right mixup. Yes, it's certainly reactable. It's not so easy as you make it out.

i agree. we'll file it under decent at best. Let me put out some more numbers. 2A hits on frame 19 (left) 3B hits on frame 20 (left) 5B hits on frame 23 (left) J214B hits on frame 23 (right) And stop me if you've heard this one before - 'I mean all there is to it if relius doesn't keep falling you hold 4, if he keeps falling you switch to 1' I think I am done here.

just to be clear, j214B hits on frame 23, 2a hits on frame 19, and if you use j214a that hits on frame 18.

you switch to block the 2a 'when she'd be hitting the ground'... except oops she did J214B! and now I got hit by j214B because of a 2a that never came. The question is whether you can react to the difference between J214B (23 frame startup) and land 2a (land + 5 frames). But if your plan is to block 2a when she'd be hitting the ground, you're basically going to have to react to the 23 frames to correct yourself or you're going to get hit. I figure it's easier to react to the J214B, but the concepts are the same.

Done properly, J2C> j214B. j2C> crosses you over to the other side of them J214B> crosses you back over in front of them. therefore you have left right between: J2C>2A. Single crossup. Have to block 2A with 6. J2C>J214B. Double crossup. Have to block J214B with 4.

Sounds like exactly the same thing as Orie's. Both involve double crossups using a 'crossup protected' thing, like a projectile or an air attack (j2C>j214B), vs a normal attack (in orie's case, a j2C>2a) after crossing up only once... Although with Orie, if you shield the j2C, doesn't matter what she was trying to do, you get a punish. And I'm not sure how legit the j2C>2a vs j214B is in the first place, in terms of reactability, in terms of fuzzy guarding.

I'm not familiar with carmine stuff, but in UNI, as I understand it, you can always block projectiles by pressing away from the projectile. Meaning that if a projectile is behind you, you can block it by holding forward, or by holding backwards. On that note, Orie's left/right mixup is not really mixup. In a similar manner, once someone is in the air, you can block by holding 4, even if they cross you up. if they cross you up, you can block by holding 4 OR 6. Therefore the only way you can actually mixup with orie's j2C is by doing it, landing and hitting 2a, or doing j2C>J214B(cross back over to the front). landing and hitting 2a cannot be blocked by holding 4. j2C > j214B can be blocked by holding 4, regardless of whether you end up to the left or right. So anything to do with carmine, would have to be something like - projectile hits you because you are holding 6 and carmine is actually in front of you and not behind you - or carmine crosses over and hits you because you are holding 4(now forward). the bigger the gap between the projectile hitting and whatever hitting after crossing up, the easier it would be to block. In theory. I've never played carmine nor played against carmine.

ggs to the people I played. You know who you are.

But the problem with the general thread wasn't, for the most part, anything to do with interactions with the mod staff. It was mostly just people interacting with each other. I don't think moderating people harder will help. It just makes things worse all around. I think things need to be reshaped somehow, to try to get better behavior, better discussion. What would that look like? Maaaaaaaaybe a point system type thing could work.