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Pokes/FRCs/Specials: Tricks and Uses


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#1 26 June 2007 - 12:44 PM

RedBeard
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CONTENTS
1) INTRO
2) KEY/LEGEND
3) DASH/NORMALS/THROWS
4) SPECIALS/FORCEBREAKS
5) OVERDRIVES/INSTANT KILL


1) INTRO

This guide is meant to give you a very detailed, but general overview of Johnny's pokes and specials. Note, however, that this guide will not include advanced strategies such as Coin Pressure or MC Pressure. This guide is moreso intended to give you a good idea how to use each normal and special in match play. There are several other stickied topics intended to adress specific uses of specials/normals such as the Matchup topic, Combo topic, or the Offense/Defense topic.

I'm going to be using quickstats for each move. Generally just quick info like Startup, Active, and Recovery frames, and Frame Advantage/MC Frame Advantage. If there's something that stands out about that move(such as 3H having GB+ of 20x2), then I will note it otherwise I'll just stick to basic info I feel is relevant. If you want to look into each move's detailed stats on your own, feel free to take a look at the framedata: http://www.dustloop..../ac/johnny.html


2) KEY/LEGEND

DMG: Damage.
ST: Startup Frames.
AC: Active Frames.
RE: Recovery Frames.
FT: Frame Total
FA: Frame Advantage.
MCFA: Mist Cancel Frame Advantage. First # is Lv1, 2nd is Lv2, 3rd is Lv3.
LV: Attack Level.
GB+: Guard Balance Increase
GB-: Guard Balance Decrease
TG: Tension Gain
SP: Special Notes about the move.
Notes: Notes I include on the useful applications of the move.


3) DASH/NORMALS/THROWS

DASHES


Forward Dash

TG: ??
SP: 1->10F Johnny is airborne. 11F Recovery. 21F total. Johnny can FD, Jump, or Attack during the recovery of his Dash, but he may not block(without FD), Dash, Backdash, Walk Forward, or Walk Backwards. Johnny may cancel his dash into a jump during any point of it. If Johnny cancels his dash into a jump, he retains momentum.

NOTES:

Essentially what the special notes mean is that if you're doing MC pressure or coin pressure, dashing is only 10F total if you attack right as your dash recovery begins.

You can test the recovery bit yourself by dashing with Johnny then holding forward. You'll notice it takes Johnny a moment to continue his movement. Now dash and attack immediately as you land and you'll notice you do not need to wait for his recovery to end. This is why FD Dashing is much faster than normal dashing, because you're canceling the recovery with FD and immediately dashing again, whereas with normal dashing you need to wait for the recovery to finish. (VIDEO COMING SOON)

VIDEO RIGHT NOW
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DcG59NavR5s

There IS advantage to normal dashing over FD dashing though, as normal dashing is a good source of increasing Johnny's tension as well as his tension pulse. During MC pressure or coin pressure you should stick to normal dashes unless you intend to do a mixup with FD Dashing.

Dashing is used everywhere. In MC pressure, coin pressure, combos, etc. Basic technique but knowing that it is a 10F dash becomes important in knowing your frame (dis)advantage.


FD/Wave/Fast Dashing

SP: Does repeated, 10F quick dashes. Tension Gain is crappy though because if you use FD, your TG becomes 20% of it's normal for 1 second(60 frames).

NOTES:

First of all, to do the FD Dash just hold down PK and mash 646464646464 on your stick. If you are using a controller or pad, you are outta luck because this manuever is much harder to perform on pad from my experience and from others' testimony. (VIDEO COMING SOON)

Controlled, rhythmic mashing will get you the max speed results but it's still quick mashing. If you are successful, Johnny should do several quick hops in a row due to cancelling his dash recovery with FD.

The intended use for this is to get across the ground quickly. It's also worth noting that if you're doing this perfectly, Johnny is only staying on the ground for 1 or 2 frames while you FD because he is considered airborne during his dash. Perhaps helpful for things like gliding over a Slide Head quake.

FD Dashing and Double hopping are two different things, and in general double hopping is more useful but it's based off the same technique as FD Dashing.


Double Hop

SP: Does a quick double hop to cover ground quickly and effeciently. Low tension gain.

NOTES:

Performed by pressing 66[PK]4646 or 66[PK]646 rapidly. (VIDEO COMING SOON)

This is commonly used in Coin pressure to get on the opponent quickly or to do a tick throw. The double hop covers ground very quickly and is useful for staying on an opponent during coin pressure.


NORMALS

5P

DMG: 12
ST: 5
AC: 4
RE: 6
FA: 0
MCFA: -4, -1, +1
LV: 1
SP: JCable.

NOTES:

Not too much to say about this. It blocks bursts, you can't air combo off of it...it combos into c.S which is nice because you CAN aircombo off of that...but in general this poke isn't used too much if at all, it kinda lost it's purpose after #R. You can do a few very specific burst blocking combos with it but nothing terribly useful.

If you're crossed up trying to do a 6P it MAY save you and anti-air them. It's really not terrible anti-air but it's not good either, chain into c.S if this freak accident happens and aircombo it or coin them. All in all you'll rarely, if ever, use it.

The only other use I can think of for it is feinting throwing a coin because 236H and 5P have very similar animations. Still not terribly useful.

Not worth to MC at Lvl1.

5K

DMG: 16
ST: 6
AC: 5
RE: 9
FA: -2
MCFA: -2, +1, +3
LV: 2
SP: JCable.

NOTES:

This move is one of Johnny's absolute staple. Lots of active frames, JCable, links and combos into many important moves such as 5H or 2D...although one of it's great uses has sadly gone which is that it no longer blocks bursts because blue bursts have had their startup lowered to 19F, whereas 5K has 20F total in it's animation. So it's still close to burst block safe but if your opponent times his burst just as your 5K starts, it will no longer block properly so be careful of that.

Otherwise this move is used in rushdown and for his basic high/low/tick throw setup all the time. It's also commonly used for Jump Installing and several other useful things. All in all, a very important poke.

c.S

DMG: 26
ST: 6
AC: 3
RE: 8
FA: +3
MCFA: +-0, +3, +5
LV: 3
SP: JCable

NOTES:


f.S

DMG: 34
ST: 8
AC: 3
RE: 25
FA: -11
MCFA: +3, +6, +8
LV: 4
SP:

NOTES:

Combos to 6HS on crouching and on standing CounterHit.

5H

DMG: 42
ST: 11
AC: 2
RE: 33
FA: -16
MCFA: +5, +8, +10
LV: 5
SP:

NOTES:


6P

DMG: 25
ST: 11
AC: 6
RE: 10
FA: -2
MCFA: +-0, +3, +5
LV: 3
SP: 1->4f Upper Body Invincibility. 5->16f Above Knee Invcibility. Ground hit cuases 18f float effect. 80% proration.

NOTES:

Anti-air.

6K

DMG: 30
ST: 16
AC: 4
RE: 16
FA: -3
MCFA: +3, +6, +8
LV: 4
SP: 7->13f Upper Body Invicibilty. 35f float effect. CH causes WallStick (78f untechable, 30f WallStick.) FRC: 12->13f

NOTES:

6HS

DMG: 64
ST: 18
AC: 2
RE: 32
FA: -15
MCFA: +5, +8, +10
LV: 5
SP: JCable

NOTES:



5D

DMG: 22
ST: 28
AC: 8
RE: 6
FA: 0
MCFA: [finput][/finput]
LV: 3
SP:

NOTES:

Your only standing overhead.

2P

DMG: 10
ST: 5
AC: 3
RE: 6
FA: +1
MCFA: -4, -1, +1
LV: 1
SP: 90% proration.

NOTES:

2K

DMG: 12
ST: 8
AC: 4
RE: 4
FA: +2
MCFA: -2, +1, +3
LV: 1
SP: 75% proration.

NOTES:


2S

DMG: 30
ST: 9
AC: 6
RE: 12
FA: -4
MCFA: +-0, +3, +5
LV: 3
SP: 75% proration.

NOTES:

2H

DMG: 48
ST: 5
AC: 6
RE: 29
FA: -16
MCFA: [finput][/finput]
LV: 5
SP: CH causes Stagger (53f max.) 1->35f, Johnny is in CH state.

NOTES:

3H

DMG: 28, 28
ST: 11
AC: 8(2)2
RE: 31
FA: -14
MCFA: +5, +8, +10
LV: 5, 5
SP:

NOTES:

You can MC at anytime, so long as the 1st hit connects.

2D

DMG: 25, 25
ST: 9
AC: 2(3)3
RE: 22
FA: -8
MCFA: +3, +6, +8
LV: 4
SP: 2nd hit causes KnockDown.

NOTES:

j.P

DMG: 12
ST: 7
AC: 5
RE: 9
FA:
MCFA: [finput][/finput]
LV: 1
SP:

NOTES:

j.K

DMG: 20
ST: 8
AC: 6
RE: 8
FA:
MCFA: [finput][/finput]
LV: 2
SP:JCable

NOTES:

j.S

DMG: 32
ST: 10
AC: 2
RE: 23
FA:
MCFA: [finput][/finput]
LV: 3
SP: JCable

NOTES:

j.H

DMG: 40
ST: 13
AC: 5
RE: 21
FA:
MCFA: [finput][/finput]
LV: 3
SP: Ground CH causes Stagger effect (39f max.) Air hit causes plummet.

NOTES:

j.D

DMG: 44
ST: 8
AC: 7
RE: 14, 5 landing recovery.
FA:
MCFA: [finput][/finput]
LV: 3
SP: 24f WallBounce. 5f landing recovery.

NOTES:

#2 26 June 2007 - 12:56 PM

RedBeard
RedBeard

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4) SPECIALS/FORCEBREAKS

236[P/K/S] - Mist Stance
..> release button - Mist Finer High/Mid/Low
..> 6/66 - Walk/Dash Forward
.. ..> 214D - Mist Stance Dash JackHound
.. .. ..> 236D - Return Jack
..> 4/44 - Walk/Dash Backwards
..> 214D - Mist Stance JackHound
.. ..> 236D - Return Jack
..> HS - Stance Cancel
236HS - Glitter is Gold
214P - Bacchus Sigh
in air, 41236HS - Ensenga
623S - Divine Blade Transport
..> S - Divine Blade
in air, 236S - Divine Blade
421S - Killer Joker Transport
..> S - Killer Joker
in air, 214S - Killer Joker
214D - JackHound
..> 236D - ReturnJack

632146HS - That's My Name

P+K+S+HS - Instant Kill Activation
..> 236236HS - Joker Trick

#3 09 July 2007 - 07:18 AM

RedBeard
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Reserved Space...

#4 17 July 2007 - 12:03 AM

Doomscyther
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Im not sure but while playing JO against my bro, he claims lvl 3 MFP has an gravity affect while it tries to hit the target. He tried with Ino air backdashing it as soon as it went off, but the pull from the MFP started to cancel the dash and pull Ino in. Wasnt sure where to pust it but MF is a special.

#5 17 July 2007 - 12:11 AM

RedBeard
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MFLv3(P) has a slight vacuum property thing. MFLV3(S) similarly has a vacuuming property on it.

#6 17 July 2007 - 12:21 AM

4r5
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Level 3 Punch Mist Finer doesn't have a 'gravity effect'. You're just hitting him out of his air backdash. But for you, I will quintuple check latter tonight, when I have some time. By the way, if I were your brother, I wouldn't risk trying to evade a Lvl3 MF. Just block it. The lost in Johnny's investment is punish enough. EDIT: To clarify, vacuum is an effect that happens on block or hit. Mist Finer, I don't think any move in the game, does not have a pull-in effect, ala Mr Heart from Hnk.

#7 17 July 2007 - 03:04 AM

Doomscyther
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By the way, if I were your brother, I wouldn't risk trying to evade a Lvl3 MF. Just block it. The lost in Johnny's investment is punish enough.


Its was in corner after I was tech trapping him, he back tech toward wall and had no tension to FD the MF3P. He tried air backdashing so he could stay in the air longer when he noticed Ino Back air dash being slowed and Ino being pulled in.

#8 17 July 2007 - 03:21 AM

4r5
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Oh, then it sounds like he's just falling into it. I mean, come on, a MF3P last for 60 some frames, and I-No's air basckdash is like, what? 15 frames?

#9 17 July 2007 - 03:30 AM

RedBeard
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EDIT: To clarify, vacuum is an effect that happens on block or hit. Mist Finer, I don't think any move in the game, does not have a pull-in effect, ala Mr Heart from Hnk.


? I don't think I read this properly or something. I'm not sure if what MFLV3P does is considered "vacuuming" or some other property, but plenty of moves in AC have vacuum properties including Johnny's MFLV3S, and Axl's long range stuff.

#10 17 July 2007 - 03:46 AM

4r5
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I'm not talking about the kind of properties that Axl or Pote's 2S have. I'm talking about something like what Heart has ( http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yeRoKxKntN8 ) which is what I think doomscyther is saying the mist finer was doing, sucking I-No in to it's attack.

Which mist finer does not do. I think I-No just ran out of horizontal velocity and descended into the attack.

#11 17 July 2007 - 04:21 AM

RedBeard
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Ohhhh, gotcha. I never used Mr. Heart so I was confused.

#12 17 July 2007 - 07:07 AM

Doomscyther
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Btw i double check with brother and he said it was with eddie not Ino, probaly y it sucks eddie in. Ill post a vid in a sec.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0lby7sJzNhQ
I gotta get a better way to record..

#13 17 July 2007 - 07:45 AM

4r5
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Looks like whoever is just flying Eddie right back into it. Don't confuse Eddie's Flying's drift and natural tendency to descend with MF3P having a pull-in effect. If maybe you can show the Eddie player's inputs.

#14 17 July 2007 - 08:02 AM

Doomscyther
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. Don't confuse Eddie's Flying's drift and natural tendency to descend with MF3P having a pull-in effect.

.

that doesnt make sense.

I had my brother do every Foward air dash without MF3P going off, its eddie normal air dash.
As you can see in the video, the MF3P brought him back in. Ill have to show input i guess later.

#15 17 July 2007 - 08:57 AM

4r5
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Sorry, missed that it was an airdash. Nothing funny happened when I just did Eddie's fly mode from a jump. And still nothing funny when I do a 69 iad. But something funny happens when you do an iad, then try to move forward or back. Some sort of glitch is going on that reverses Eddie's horizontal movement, when he is near johnny's mf3p. So, yeah. Something funny is going on. But it's not that mf3p has a vacuum effect, but instead it appears to be a weird glitch. Next step is to figure out if this is a console glitch, or if it's in the arcade version also. I would have a video of this, but my capture software doesn't want to seem to work any more.

#16 17 July 2007 - 03:53 PM

Doomscyther
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Its probaly only eddie glitch, since his IAD floats him, and as to see if its an arcade glitch, I cant. Closest arcade is houston and thats 3hrs worth of gas.

#17 06 January 2008 - 06:57 AM

Zenpou Tenshin
Zenpou Tenshin

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Hey guys, What are some good air and ground pokes for johnny that I should focus on. Thanks, Z.T
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#18 06 January 2008 - 07:25 AM

4r5
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j.S air to air, air to ground (in front of you) j.HS air to ground (below you) ground pokes, whatever the situation calls for. generally: K f.S HS 2D 2S

#19 06 January 2008 - 08:12 AM

Zenpou Tenshin
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Ahhhh..........Thanks a bunch. Just what I needed.
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#20 17 January 2008 - 04:48 AM

Zewo
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For his Jackhound, is it still necessary to MS it in combos for faster recovery? (Like from Slash)

#21 17 January 2008 - 05:49 PM

4r5
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MSJH doesn't recovery any faster then a regular JH, but it does start up faster and has a stronger stagger and more air untech time. For ground combos, you would do MSJH to increase the stagger. For juggles, you don't always need a MSJH, but doing a MSJH won't mess up your combo.

#22 19 January 2008 - 09:08 PM

A3Religion
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There has been a mix-up I have been working on that I want other people to try out so that I can an open perspective on it. For an okizeme on a character after the overdrive, I do 6HS-DBT-DB FRC-Falling J.s or J.k if they are ducking which actually works on Zappa or Faust or sometimes I do a late DB so that it crosses them up. Its not 100% but report back to me about how well it works for you. It works well enough for me to use it but the timing is strict so get back to me about how hard it is for you.

#23 19 January 2008 - 09:52 PM

4r5
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If you want a hella ambiguous crossup post-OD, just straight up do DBT. If you do DB out of DBT as fast as possible, it's non-crossup. If you delay by just a frame or two, it becomes crossup. Though, now in AC, you can't convert it into crazy damage. If you hit, you can go for another crossup with DBT>DB again. Or with KJT>KJ, which you can convert to big damage. Or for meterless, you can meaty a iad.S. I'll try yours out tonight, that is, if I can break out of the habit of doing my mixups.

#24 21 January 2008 - 07:01 PM

A3Religion
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Yeah yours works for big damage in Slash but we are no longer blessed with the float effect anymore so that is why I am using this one. With the 6HS it puts a good enough distance (and the increased guard meter is a good bonus) that you can come down with the falling J.s or J.k to do some big damage with either the B&B KJ combo off of the lvl2 MF S or combo into the Jackhound-2D-Mist.

#25 31 January 2008 - 05:58 AM

Killerwatt
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Hey all, I'm trying to become better with Johnny and I seem to be having some problems MCing properly; most times I try it when I'm on the offensive I get a coin instead or a MF. I also don't know how to mixup properly; I notice I get predictable REALLY quickly. Any Johnny vets care to give me some advice in that respect? Thanks.

#26 31 January 2008 - 06:17 AM

Zewo
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That's just practice. In the beginning, you don't want to rush it. Just make sure you have a visual confirmation of you actually being in the MS before you cancel first (Then gradually increase the speed). It's also important to note that if you're on different levels of MF (Higher = Less time to MS = Less time needed to MC), you can cancel faster, so that's something you'll have to get used to as well. Don't be too hard on yourself, you'll get the hang on it. It'll become second-nature in no time. As for mixups, Johnny IMO doesn't really have much. It's like, STRING-(Coin)-Dash-(TK Ensenga or 2K or K or Throw) And it doesn't help that all his moves (5H) seem to have massive pushback now, so you can't keep up the pressure as well.

#27 31 January 2008 - 09:20 AM

Xaphiel
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A mixup with Johnny that I try and throw out often is 5K-2D or TK ensenga. The ensenga won't hit if the opponent is too close, so try to have some distance between you and the opponent when you hit them with 5k. From there you pick from either a low, 2D, or a high, TK ensenga. If you land the 2D you can coin or jackhound. If you land the TK ensenga you can RC and follow up.

#28 31 January 2008 - 03:55 PM

A3Religion
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A mixup with Johnny that I try and throw out often is 5K-2D or TK ensenga. The ensenga won't hit if the opponent is too close, so try to have some distance between you and the opponent when you hit them with 5k. From there you pick from either a low, 2D, or a high, TK ensenga. If you land the 2D you can coin or jackhound. If you land the TK ensenga you can RC and follow up.


He has a great idea as to switching it up, I usually use K-S Tk Ensenga or 2D. You also do K-S-HS MF S or MC into the Tk Ensenga. One of the best mix-ups is on okizeme to throw a coin or do 6HS and then MF S or Tk Ensenga. Besides that the one thing that especially works for me is K-S-2D-Coin-Dash-K-JI-S-DBT-DB FRC (near the opponents head)- into either J.HS, 2D, 5D, or Airdash in to J.HS if they tech forward just Air grab them. Also if you really want to mix people up make sure to do a lot of TK Ensenga to keep people on their toes. Lastly switch up a lot of your combo starters with either a high or low to keep people on their toes too.

#29 31 January 2008 - 07:15 PM

Killerwatt
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Thanks so much guys I'll be practicing this to no end. My main goal before getting my mixup down is MCing; it's such a vital tool for Johnny's game and much too often I get punished when my 2HS is blocked or I run out of coins inadvertently because I throw a coin instead of MCing.

#30 27 February 2008 - 09:13 PM

JOFan
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just some thought on jo's game tksenga is awesome... i like to do 2p,2ks, tksenga as the push back put jo at the perfect range to land the ensenga frc tricks: 6k frc... good ol grab/low mix-up in the corner. I usually do it after a 1-2 rep of mist cancel string following a coin. ----- basic cross-up: cross-up trick has been briefly discussed but i find that sometime when i messed up the timing to dash cancel after 2d mc i can still land the cross-up by doing a kjfrc followed by delayed j.s. --------- questions: i saw in some cv that jo can fake a high attack (usually j.hs) into a low attack as oki. How is it done exactly? lets say... after a mid-screen tk ensenga and the opponent is knocked down in the corner. Do i just dash cancel p, or any other fast recovery air normal to delay the jhs so much that it'll only show the startup frame? theres the throw xx kjfrc hs db knockdown crossup stuff.... i find the timing for doing the iad to be extremely tight. anyone have some tips on how to go about it consistently? any other tricks/ cross-up i should know? thanks,




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