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Arcade Stick vs Controller


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#1 31 March 2010 - 05:06 PM

Kyle
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Disadvantages of using an Arcade Stick:

-Takes research and homework to figure out what you want
Is this really a disadvantage? Some people don’t combine enjoyment and learning… you really shouldn’t be in this scene if this is too much for you.

-Cost is greater than a controller
It does cost more, and as poor college students I definitely understand there is a time and a place to shell out 150 some bucks on an arcade stick.

-Some will have to re-learn their game/character
This is the biggest hurdle for most players. The question is: Did you REALLY KNOW your character to the fullest extent if you couldn’t do the Advanced Techniques listed below? I can only picture a small handful of Pad players which can say yes to the above statement. Doren , Latiff, Kenji, Clayton, …



Advantages of using an Arcade Stick:

-You get to choose your Pieces and parts
This may seem intimidating, but the choices are endless for the consumer. What color buttons, what size buttons, what size case, what type of material for the case, a manufactured or custom arcade stick? Do your homework and choose what’s appealing and functional to your needs.

-You get to put Artwork on it.
This is too fun, choose pictures which represent who you are or who you are aspiring to become. Showcase your other talents/hobbies or pay homage to the game/character which got you involved in the scene. Do support your local Artist.

-You get to choose how you want to carry it.
Do you want a Gym bag , Fag-bag or a Go-Go-Gadget bag? Once again, size, color, fit: it’s all customizable for your needs.

-Lifespan is much greater than Pads.

Sticks needs minimal repair and upkeep, while pads die in about 2 year and can’t really be modified or revived: They wear in specifically to the player and alleviate some kind of universal standard which help everyone. I remember playing pad, I remember playing ONLY MY pad because everyone elsess felt funny. =/

-Staying competitive at the Arcades.
I've seen too many GREAT pad players avoid competitions and arcades because they are stuck using an XBOX pad. Time to step up and support your local arcade!

-Advanced Techniques which using an arcade stick amplifies

1: “Kara cancels”- (SFIII & BB) This trick cancels start-up of a move and goes straight into another move. The result requires the inputs to be FAST & PRECISE (Literally 3-4 frames). Has anyone else tried Makoto’s (Cr. HK) Kara~ Fukaige on pad compared to stick? What about Chun-li’s S. MK into throw or Carl’s 6B~B+C, Carls J.66~3C~BB. Take my word, It’s MUCH easier on an arcade stick.

2: “P-Linking”- (SFIV & SSFIV) This trick uses input priority and multiple inputs to increase the windows of links. Button priority states that when multiple buttons and press at the same time, the highest priority move comes out. For instance: Pressing all three of Ryu’s kicks button makes a roundhouse kick come out. To consistently combo Ryu’s Cr. LP into Cr. RH (a 1-frame link) the “P-link” input makes it a 3-frame link. : Cr.LP, [C.HK]~[Cr.MK]~[Cr.LK] : You have successfully input Cr.HK (3) times.

3: “Multiple Inputs”- (GG & SFIII) This trick is for special moves which can be input by different buttons. Sol w/GG can do VulcanicViper with (4) different input. 623S, 623HS, 623]S[, 623]HS[. You can use this to aid in your reversal windows. On wake-up input: 623[HS]~[S]~]HS[~]S[ and notice you’ve turned a 1-frame reversal into a 4-frame reversal: Same example with Ryu = 623 [HP]~[MP]~[LP]~]HP[~]MP[~]LP[, Ryu has created a 6-frame reversal window. You see my point here? Also think about Darkstalkers and “tech hits” you barely have access to (6) buttons to effectively do this on a pad.

4: “Unique Button Buffers” – (SF:A, GG, BB, Battle Fantasia) Birdie, Boxer, Eddie, May, Bridget, Carl, Arakune, Cedrix… The idea is holding buttons in while allowing access to the rest of your characters arsenal. It’s 1000x easier on the player to use a stick for these types of inputs.

5: “Advanced Inputs” (GG…) Bridget’s Yo-Yo glitch & Dash splitting combos. This is just (2) examples, I’m sure there’s more elsewhere. Bridget’s yo-yo glitch is a (2) frame re-buffer, the best way to utilize this is off of close slash, so the repetitions are fast and numerous. 66, S~]HS[~[HS], on frames 2-3 of the yo-yo return. Dash split combo is EXACTLY 2146[K]~4[S]~]K[]S[6P, I dare anyone to do these on a pad. Other examples include “I-no’s” TigerKnee’d Chemical love BnB’s, Charge partitioning with Urien/Remy…

6: “First Frame FRC’S” (GG) Ky’s stun edge, FRC, 6HS. Slayer’s DeadOnTime, FRC, J.HS… exact inputs are Ky: 236S~P+K+S~6HS: Slayer: 63246S~P+K+S~HS.= By inputting the FRC with different button combinations, the ability to follow up with the fourth button on the first frame afterward is available.

7:”FRC Buffer Tricks” (GG) inputting another move prior to the FRC/RC can cause instant specials/supers to appear: The trick is to input with other combination besides KS&HS. This is exceedingly difficult with a pad. With “May” we can input 66, K, 63214P, 41236PKS, [P]. This will buffer an OHK out of the FRC than re-buffer the punch button on her hoop set. If the FRC was with KS&HS & “May” has 50% tension a super will buffer out of this set-up. Explore your characters and see what’s available.


the infamous stick tier list is a useful guideline for deciding what stick to get. just don't get anything below B rank and you should be fine...


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#2 31 March 2010 - 06:03 PM

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This was a good read, I haven't been using stick for overly long (and still not for GG) so I learned some things.

I would say though, I think "You get to choose how you want to carry it" is more like a disadvantage. It's a disadvantage that you have to carry it at all compared to how small and portable a pad is. I do enjoy playing on stick more than pad now though, it's definitely worth having to carry it around.

Another advantage of stick, you don't have to worry about what system you have to play on. This is actually the main reason I decided to learn stick, so I wouldn't have to play on a 360 pad if there are only 360 set ups.

oh, and it also makes casuals go by much easier. You don't always have to change controls every time you want to play if you're the only one that uses pad there. I ended up still having to do this in BB though cause most people I play use the other set up (I still question why they bothered having 2 default arcade control set ups...)

#3 31 March 2010 - 09:44 PM

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Stick is definitely better overall. learning curve is kinda meh but it's worth it once you do learn it. The stick just improves performance overall. Not to mention all the things you can do to customize it :O
Hell my buddy has his stick with light up buttons. it looks freaking awesome.
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#4 01 April 2010 - 02:40 AM

bucklemyshoe
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I play I-No on pad. Anything is possible!

That being said, I can play I-No on stick and while some things are easier, I prefer her on pad.

#5 01 April 2010 - 04:07 AM

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I disagree with the notion that pads die in a year. Almost all my experience with pads tells me that if you're careful in learning inputs and don't mash with broad heavy thumbs, you'll have pads that last a good 3 years or more, especially Dual-Shock 2/3 or PSP slim plastic pads, by contrast, rubber pads don't last as long and get filthy if you don't clean them. You'll have to decide for yourself what kind of pad is most comfortable: solid plus (Wii), broken plus (PSP/PS3), or flat (360/pc/others).
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#6 01 April 2010 - 09:56 AM

Kirbeh
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I kinda disagree with that, when I played pad, DS2 pads did not last more than 9 months for me. I don't even mash or press buttons that hard, it was just from frequent use that they all died (RIP).
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#7 01 April 2010 - 01:20 PM

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I kinda disagree with that, when I played pad, DS2 pads did not last more than 9 months for me. I don't even mash or press buttons that hard, it was just from frequent use that they all died (RIP).


Ive had mine break in as little as two months, but the last DS2 i got has lasted me nearly 3 years, but that being said i picked up a stick about 2 years ago.

To each his own, but i whole heartedly agree with Kyle. Good write up mate!:thumbu:
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#8 01 April 2010 - 01:23 PM

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Nice article. Nice to see you still come to the site. :P

Anecdotal example, I got a PS2 pad that came with the system from 2003 and a Xbox pad that came with that system from 2005-2006. They both still work just fine despite the xbox pad's joysticks and both pad's cords looking like shit.
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#9 02 April 2010 - 08:46 PM

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i had a dualshock 1 last like two years. after that one died, i swear that at least one pad died per month after that. nostalgiafag/pads really were made better in the old days. the actual d-pad on a ds1 feels so much better than a ds2/3, even after it gets worn way down from constant use.

speaking in terms of gg, i find that pad will do just fine for most characters. if you want to play Eddie, a charge character, or I-no, i'd suggest you get a good stick. obviously there will be some exceptions to this (Latif, Blacksnake, etc), but those kinds of characters are just much more suited to stick. i tried for a good 4-5 months to switch to stick with order sol, but no matter what i tried it all felt wrong. 669 motions, sj.iad's, sji's, and even simple dp's all felt really clunky. i went back to pad after i realized how stupid it was to HURT MY GAME BY SWITCHING TO STICK. i don't feel like devoting a year to practicing sj.iad's (a motion that is truly ESSENTIAL to order sol) before being able to use a stick. that kind of shit just didn't fly with me and i went back to what was the most comfortable for me.

now that i'm playing slayer though, i kind of do want to give stick another shot. although i can do 5K, DoT in both directions now, other things like fdc bite or bdc DoT just feel way too hard on pad. but once again i'm dreading learning to iad. at least slayer's iads are a bit easier to land than hos's.

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#10 02 April 2010 - 08:54 PM

Narcowski
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IAD definitely gave me a little trouble at first, but so many other things (double-half-circles and negative edge FRCs come to mind) are easier on a stick.
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#11 03 April 2010 - 08:13 PM

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i played with controllers for over 10 years. I almost never used sticks over at arcades cuz here all arcades are pretty much dead, so if i ever tried to play with a stick it always felt somehow wrong.

a few months ago i finally bought a stick, hoping it would help me on my sfIV game(well, mostly cuz the 360 dpad is just awful).

At first i wasn't really happy with my new toy: everything felt a lot harder, and i couldn't imput properly any motion, even the simplier(fireball and shorykens, for example). but after a month of practice...well, the stick changed everything.
It did not only improved my game, but the main difference is that playing now feels completely different; using a controller implies, no matter what, some mashing in order to do things: with the stick i have the sensation i am controlling what i am doing. Plus, the button layout is just so much better than the controller's; hitting multiple buttons was a pain in the ass on the controller, and doing button mapping sometimes was a pain; the only issue i have with the stick is that i can't do 236236 or 623 as fast as i was doing on the controller. but maybe it's just cuz i need to pratice a little more.

I still have to test the stick on gg/bb tho. 'til now i have tried it only on battle fantasia/street fighter 2hd/IV and garou.
(oh, and i forgot to mention: before buying the stick, i hated charge characters. now i ♥ them. nice article op btw)
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#12 03 April 2010 - 08:35 PM

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+ Stick Pro
Playing in Arcades!
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thanks to excelence for the gif art

#13 03 April 2010 - 08:55 PM

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Negative edge is a good enough reason to use stick.

#14 04 April 2010 - 01:12 AM

Kyle
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Thanks for the contributions everyone. ^_^

I will be updating the first post.
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#15 04 April 2010 - 08:19 AM

MisterBadguy
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I don't follow. What exactly is the disadvantage of negative edgeing on a pad? Do I just have some sort of super thumbs where I don't notice the difference?

For example, I play Cedric on pad. I have no problem whatsoever holding down D with ball of my thumb, giving the tip of my thumb access to the rest of the buttons.

As an Akuma player early on, I learned to keep cr.MK held down while taping short with my thumb tip to keep myself from negative edging a medium hurricane kick.

This is not a particularly hard technique (if you can even call it that) that I'm sure every pad player has figured out by now. I understand the point of this thread, but I must speak out that I don't think negative edge makes a bit of difference from format to format.
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#16 04 April 2010 - 05:06 PM

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Great thread.

After getting pain in my arm from dashing all day in BB with the 360 controller i just got a stick a few days ago. It really feels strange at the beginning, but I'll get over it and do some training.
Its already so much easier for me to do some BnBs with jump cancels. :kitty:

I was lucky and got a SC4 Hori stick pretty cheap, i thought its ok for testing. But i think if I'm better in using it I'll look into some stuff to make a custom stick or something. :keke:
(If someone has a link or something, i would appreciate it!)
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#17 04 April 2010 - 05:16 PM

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I don't follow. What exactly is the disadvantage of negative edgeing on a pad? Do I just have some sort of super thumbs where I don't notice the difference?

For example, I play Cedric on pad. I have no problem whatsoever holding down D with ball of my thumb, giving the tip of my thumb access to the rest of the buttons.

As an Akuma player early on, I learned to keep cr.MK held down while taping short with my thumb tip to keep myself from negative edging a medium hurricane kick.

This is not a particularly hard technique (if you can even call it that) that I'm sure every pad player has figured out by now. I understand the point of this thread, but I must speak out that I don't think negative edge makes a bit of difference from format to format.


Zinac is terrible at making points, but it's undeniable fact that stick players have, in every sense, an advantage of button control and options. It's not that it can't be done on pad, but it can be done on a stick with less effort and greater long term accuracy.

#18 04 April 2010 - 10:57 PM

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I play I-No on pad. Anything is possible!

That being said, I can play I-No on stick and while some things are easier, I prefer her on pad.


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It's super effective!


#19 04 April 2010 - 11:50 PM

qwerty
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the infamous stick tier list is a useful guideline for deciding what stick to get. just don't get anything below B rank and you should be fine.

and for pad players; keep in mind that a dualshock is not your only option. people have been padhacking saturn pads for ages now and those are probably the best you're gonna get as far as pad goes.

that being said, everything is far more precise on stick. take it from someone who played gg on pad for over a year; microswitches >>>>>>>> contact board

#20 05 April 2010 - 01:52 AM

AI__
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Damn, from that tier list, it says that mayflash stick is D tier. FML

#21 05 April 2010 - 03:30 AM

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Damn, from that tier list, it says that mayflash stick is D tier. FML


Stock Mayflash is pretty shitty but modded, it's top tier. The PCB is gdlk from what I hear.

#22 05 April 2010 - 04:55 AM

qwerty
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Damn, from that tier list, it says that mayflash stick is D tier. FML


sanwa buttons and stick make it effectively B.

#23 05 April 2010 - 05:50 AM

Narcowski
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Yeah, the PCB is the only good thing about Mayflashes. Seriously, there's not even any real reason to buy the rest of it. The case isn't nearly as friendly to modding as the Madcatz SE, and the stock parts are horrid.

They've got a nice PCB though.
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#24 05 April 2010 - 06:46 AM

bucklemyshoe
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Madcatz TE is not top tier. Try playing a shmup with it. I know a lot of people won't notice but the throw on the stick itself is way too loose.

#25 05 April 2010 - 09:41 AM

qwerty
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in which case, get an hrap-se or mod the te you already have? non-issue, imo.

though i guess it should be noted that markman did design the te so he is obviously going to say that it's the best retail stick. in any case, the te is still a great stick and will fit the needs of most anyone (albeit you may have to change a thing or two about it).

personally, i prefer the hrap for the true astro city curve, though i wouldn't turn down a te if i was handed one at a tournament.

#26 10 April 2010 - 05:21 PM

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As a pad player whose been playing GG for like... what, 4-5 years now or more? I gotta say that pretty much every stick player has been trying to convert me.

The issue is that I play Zappa, and controlling the dog with my trigger finger is 100 times easier than working him with my pinky on a stick. If I played zappa on a stick, I'd have to relearn everything, especially my combos and working the dog effectively. Needless to say, this is why I don't use a stick! Zappa is just more effective for me on a pad. I can do every crazy 'technique' stick players can on a pad just fine, including the FRC negative edge command input trick (it's really not as hard as people think. I agree with MisterBadguy).

That said, yeah, pads break easily. A lot of them are shitty quality, not gonna lie. I had a pad that died within 2 weeks of playing GG on it once. Saturn pad seems to be the only one worth really working for.
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#27 13 April 2010 - 07:26 AM

kona
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I honestly think that playing on stick is worth the slight learning curve. I've played fighting games on pad all my life until last year. I can now do everything that I learned on pad and more. My inputs are much more precise and accurate. It's very well worth the time dedicated to learning it.

All dem orientals rook the same to me.


#28 20 April 2010 - 03:03 AM

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I have to admit, I'm learning on a Fight Stick and It's quite difficult. Going to arcades every once in awhile helped my progress but I've still gotta long way to go. Trying to adjust to the stick and I feel like I'm getting a little used to it.

Sadly, I use the Tekken 6 Hori Fight Stick, I hear it's pretty bad but I'm used to it. I probably wanna invest in a wired one right?

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#29 23 April 2010 - 06:45 PM

DonPatch
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Pads aren't hard to use at all, you just need to get double-jointed thumbs, like me :D

lol seriously though, I have seen no advantage from a stick that makes it worth spending hundreds of dollars on. I can do the tk hcl airdash in combos, and I don't even main i-no, I just practiced it a little bit. Only reason I would personally ever want one is to be ready to use an arcade machine, but I don't see me going to any arcades that have one anytime soon.

#30 23 April 2010 - 07:42 PM

shtkn
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Double tapping to me seems impossible on pad unless you shift your entire hand to do it. Plinking too. In addition to that, I think using your entire hand to manipulate a joystick instead of a thumb to manipulate a dpad would give you much finer control over your directional inputs.

Also, TEs are around 100$ nowadays, so "hundreds" is a bit misleading unless you go buy a custom stick where the sky's the limit.

Edit: i suppose I should say that none of these things are truly impossible, but they are much much harder than they'd be on stick. Why make things harder on yourself if you can help it?

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