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BlazBlue: Continuum Shift II Changes NON-HELPFUL POST = TEMPBAN


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#1 09 December 2010 - 06:05 AM

Henaki
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Post more and I'll put em in here.
DON't WHITE ABOUT HOW SHITTY YOUR CHARACTER IS HERE, OR WHAT KIND OF BS ANOTHER CHARACTER GOT. TAKE CHARACTER CHANGE DISCUSSION TO THE CHARACTER FORUMS. UNLESS YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING INFORMATION (EITHER IN JAPANESE, ENGLISH), OR CLARIFYING/CORRECTING INFORMATION ALREADY POSTED, DON'T POST.

IF YOU FIND ANY CHANGES, POST THEM, JAPANESE OR NOT, NOT EVERY TRANSLATOR HAS THE TIME TO READ THROUGH EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER FORUM TO FIND EVERY SINGLE CHANGE. DON'T GO THROUGH THE JBBS WITHOUT A CLUE AND POST RANDOM JAPANESE SHIT YOU SEE THOUGH.

BUFFS WILL BE LISTED WITH A "+" IN THE LIST, NERFS WITH A "-", NEUTRAL CHANGES OR CHANGES WITH MULTIPLE POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES WITH A "o".


Carl
+ 6A is way easier to use, invincibility feels really long.
- Throw damage nerf? Forward throw, j2C, jB, 2D, 5C, volante, j2C allecan, 5C, jB, jC, 2D does about 2500
- Cantata's startup is slower
-Nirvana's gauge has no change to consumption. However Nirvana seems to lose a lot more gauge when hit by opponents and takes a lot more time to recover once broke. Red effect on Nirvana when she gets hit.
o Nirvana's gauge consumption speed is not that bad (altough if she dies it takes indeed some time for her to regenerate)
o Jump feels somewhat unconfortable?+ Easier to continue combo after 2hit 8D
o Basic solo Carl air combo now : anything into cantabile, C, jB, j2C, jB, jC, jB, allegretto
o JC knocks down, but the opponent falls at about the same speed as Carl.
o B vivace same
o Bounce after j2C is really high, so high that even after j2C being guarded Tager was able to catch Carl with atomic collider.
o jB fatal counter is indeed gone but jB counter is now close to being air untechable. Carl can pick the opponent up if he lands first or continue offense hitting with nirvana's 3D.
? Since there are few occasions to land 3C counter it can't be used much (an above poster however said that 3C > cantata still works). It's basically useful for pseudo unblockables with nirvana's 2D.

Jin
Jin
+ j.B is looking as dangerous as it was in CT.
+ You can do "5B > 2B" and 5B > 6A", it looks like 6A is a really fun move to use now.
+ Neutral throw's freeze time is longer now.
o "Throw > 6C > j.C > j.2C > dj.2C > 214C (214D > 6C > 214C also works)" deals about 2100 damage.
o "Backthrow > 6C > j.C > j.2C > 214C" deals about 2000 damage.

Lambda
+ j.C and j.2C's damage increased.
+ If you are hit while in Gravity's startup frames, the gauge does not disappear.
+ "Corner throw > 5C > 6C > Spike Chaser > 5C > 6C > 236C > 6A > 6C > 2DD > Aerial combo" is possible, deals around 3000 damage.
+ "236C > 5C > Gravity > 2DD > Crescent > 6A > 6C > 236C > Aerial combo" is possible.
+ Gravity is now a Fatal Counter.
+ "FC Gravity > 5C > 6C > 236C" is possible.
+ 5C[1](CH) > 236C alot easier to do now
+ 6B faster
+ 5DD/4DD > 236236D easier to do
+ Whiffed gravity doesn't use up whole gauge (2/3?)
+ j.DD > j.2DD works on every character
+ Faster air backdash
- 214D recovery slightly longer?
- Minimum TK Crescent Height is higher
- "236C > 5C > Gravity > 2DD > Crescent > 5D..." cannot be done anymore.
- Crescent Loop can be done for 3~4 reps max.
o From 5A anti air, you can deal about 2400 damage.
o 6C does not wallbound.
o 5C > 6C loop looks possible, but it may not be.
o 236A cross up range needs testing (2B > 236A seems to be optimal range for cross up, 3C > 236A seems to stop at the opponent so whiff 4B might still be viable)
o Max range 3C > 236D makes a good...meaty?
o 236B > RC > 5DD>236C's float is alot lower now, investigating potential combos
o RC Airgrab on Arakune no longer puts you on opposite side(same is assumed for Bang)


Litchi
- Itsuu can not be followed-up from 2B[m], 2C[m], 3C[m] or 6D[m].
- 6A[m] no longer bounces the opponent.
o 4D[m] makes the opponent slide, 2B > 5B > j.B > j.B > j.C > j.B works. (Itssu is a move with the Staff, this is Staffles so it may be Ippatsu at the end)

Makoto
+ j.2C became a deadly move if the opponent gets hit by it (lol, that's how he called it), it's fine if the opponent blocks it, though.
+ Using 236A on oki is the same as CS1, however it feels like there's more time to mix-up after it.
+ It seems like you can get 5000 corner damage. With Particle Flare, that becomes 6300.
+ Particle Flare is really simple to combo with.
+ Midscreen: "214A~CCCCC > 214A~A/B". It was said that you can make a ambiguous mix-up with this using either A or B follow-up.
+ Corner: "5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 236A~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 5CC > j.C > j.B > dj.CC > 623C~D" deals 4800 damage, gains 58 meter.
+ Corner: "2A > 5B > 5CC > 6B > 5D > 2C > 214B~D > 2C > 2D > j.D > 236A~D > 6A > j.B > dj.B > 623C~D" deals around 3800 damage.
+ Corona, Lightning Arrow and Shooting Star are all faster than before.
+ 214A~B looks as fast as Noel's Assault Through.
+ 214B/C~D's charging speed is surprisingly fast.
+ Makoto's 3C hit has a increased hitbox, she could go under Comet Cannon.
- j.2C can't be jump cancelled any longer.
- Makoto's hitbox when doing 3C is bigger, but she could go under Comet cannon.
- "3C > 2C > 2D > Comet Cannon" is possible on some characters, but not all of them.
- Comet Cannon's startup is slower.
- 5D > 2D > j.D > 236A~D can't be done.
- 2A feels a bit slower.
- Parry cancel gone (duh)
- You can't do "2B > 6A > 5B > 2B"
- You can't do "3C > 2C > 2D" anymore.
o After reaching its maxium height, Asteroid Vision B and C feels like deacelerating while falling down. (After that, something about Asteroid C being like j.2C, couldn't comprehend really well)
o 2B follow-up's timing after airthrow is looking a little slower.
o Perhaps Comet Cannon's hitbox is bigger now.
o "623C RC > 214C~D (LV3) > 236A~D (LV3) > 214B~D (LV3)" looks all faster than before. After Asteroid B, it seems like there is not enough time for you to use 236A~D again. (Corner only?)
o 2A looks like it's around 6F startup. (according to what Spark tested for us, it was 6F on startup already, so no change here)
o j.CC's hitbox has not changed at all.
o The hitstop reduction on her moves made her look more stylish.
o Her jump's "orbit" seems to have changed. Because of that, they way you use her j.CC seems to have changed a little.
o Corona Upper floats less now. (?)
o Like always, "6B > 214A~C~A" works on Tager and Hakumen.
o 5D has less disadvantage on block (?), all the other D moves remain the same.


Mu-12
+ 3C Now it's jump cancelable.
+ 2B > 2C has been added.
+ Ame no Habaya deals 5 hits, can be followed-up.
- Omohikane minimum damage decreased to around 1100.
- Throw follow-up combo dealing around 1800 instead of 2800.
・j.2C Looks like there's some recovery after she reaches ground.
o (Something about enemies falling faster after an air hit, please someone translate this for me.)
o Corner combo should be "6B > 63214C > 6A > j.2C loop"
o Her loop apparently remains the same.
o 2B can't be used for relaunch, but Furu no Tsurugi is fast so it can be used as follow-up.

Noel
+ "5A > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" and "5D > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" are possible.
+ If you RC her back throw, you should be able to follow it up with j.D
- Her 5A and 5B can't hit Makoto's 3C.
o Fenrir's damage with 18 successful hits is around 2700. The last hit's minimum damage should be 1000.
o Her throw's recovery has been increased? You can follow-u her throw with Haida, but the timing is a little weird.
o Bullet Rain > Fenrir deals around 3300.
o You can deal about 6100 damage off 4D FC in corner.

Rachel.
+ overall damage increased
+ j.A is an overhead again
+ 6B can be gatling'd into 5C or 3C
+ 6B is jump-cancellable on block and hit (needs definitive confirmation on block though, but looks legit)
- 5CC slides now instead of making the opponent twirl, so midscreen combos are much harder
o j.2C lvl 3 still forces fatal counter

Tager:
+ 6A: Has upper body super armor with infinite(?) amount of hits. Loses to lows. Has higher pull in and charge up.
+ J.C>j.b works on hazama, litchi, valk, and hazama.
+ 360B damage increase?
+ ASledge buffed (either speed or distance).
- 6A loses jump cancel property.
o Charge is 214D
o 2C has not gatling besides into 3C
o GETB has changed magnetism properties (unsure).

Tsubaki

+ 5D's charge speed is faster than before. It seems like he got 1.5 charge meter really fast.
+ 2D's initial charge speed is kinda slow, after that it gets faster.
+ Air throw can be followed up midscreen without gauge.
+ A/B/C "Sword" staggers on ground hit.
- The opponent techs faster when hit by 3C, so you have no other choice but use 3CC.
- Her ground throw cannot be cancelled; it blows the opponent off like you were hit by "Wind".
- While charging, you're in CH status.
- "C Light" does not break Primers.
o 6CC > "D Wind" is possible on corner.
o On midscreen, "D Wind" blows the opponent just like A/B/C, but can't be followed-up.
o "A Spear" has the same startup time from CS1 but since there isn't any invencibility anymore, people were hit out of it a lot. Can't be followed up even on CH.
o 6B looks faster, can't follow-up with 5C anymore.
o "Airthrow > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > "A Light" > "C Wing"" deals around 2400 damage.
o "A/B/C Sword" on CH is just like CS1.

Changes are.. well, take with a grain of salt the first few days as we have to skim BBS for info for the time being.

I'll also consolidate a nicer format once we have more than one character and a handful of changes.

A BIG THANK YOU TO:
HiagoX
Dream Maker
Jiyuna

Edited by Henaki, 10 December 2010 - 06:44 AM.

follow some dumb idiot on twitter https://twitter.com/imahfb


#2 09 December 2010 - 06:12 AM

A.X.I.S.
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I asked hiago to translate for me.

tager:
J.C>j.b works on hazama, litchi, valk, and hazama.

I am looking at other peoples info but I refuse to post because I'm using google translate and I know no japanese.

AXISISM - A Way Of Life

Axis is adorable until he starts talking and killing games.


#3 09 December 2010 - 06:18 AM

Henaki
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I asked hiago to translate for me.

tager:
J.C>j.b works on hazama, litchi, valk, and hazama.

I am looking at other peoples info but I refuse to post because I'm using google translate and I know no japanese.


Yeah I was unsure about this one when I read it.

The guy who posted a huge list of Tager changes probably doesn't play Tager, he listed a couple of things that haven't changed at all.

follow some dumb idiot on twitter https://twitter.com/imahfb


#4 09 December 2010 - 06:28 AM

HiagoX
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Yeah I was unsure about this one when I read it.

The guy who posted a huge list of Tager changes probably doesn't play Tager, he listed a couple of things that haven't changed at all.


What I translated said that it was working on Tsubaki, Hazama and Litchi. Also said that hitting that on Hazama should be about as hard as hitting it on Jin, and that it probably is possible on Platinum.

Also F you haters, SFxT I still hold as one of my favorite 2D fighters


#5 09 December 2010 - 06:29 AM

A.X.I.S.
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I'm looking at this page and it seems most the changes if not all from last loctest is actually in the game.
Most of this stuff is confirmed from last loctest.

Ragna doing dead spike combo's do sound hype.
And yes noels dreaded J.4D is here and they seem to have found sillyness with it.

AXISISM - A Way Of Life

Axis is adorable until he starts talking and killing games.


#6 09 December 2010 - 06:34 AM

Henaki
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What I translated said that it was working on Tsubaki, Hazama and Litchi. Also said that hitting that on Hazama should be about as hard as hitting it on Jin, and that it probably is possible on Platinum.


I wasn't doubting you, I phrased that poorly haha. I didn't post that change originally because I wasn't 100% sure if I read it right is all.

follow some dumb idiot on twitter https://twitter.com/imahfb


#7 09 December 2010 - 06:39 AM

HiagoX
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とりあえず。
・オモヒの保障ダメダウン
体感1100くらい。
・投げから、従来コンボダメ2800→1800に
・空中ビット設置すると、設置後落下が早くなっている。

・壁コンは、6B→フルノ→6A→J2Cループニセットいける。
・ループは、従来と同じくらい入るっぽい。


Okay, time for Mu changes.

- Omohikane minimum damage decreased to around 1100.
- Throw follow-up combo dealing around 1800 instead of 2800.
- (Something about enemies falling faster after an air hit, please someone translate this for me.)

- Corner combo should be "6B > 63214C > 6A > j.2C loop"
- Her loop apparently remains the same.

μおもしれー
やっぱ屈食らい確認6C>5D>ハバキリ>ダッシュオモヒ繋がるのがサイコー!
3C後は無理(CHならイケるかも)、J2C後は2B繋がるよ^^
稼働初期だからアメ式通りまくるかなって思ったら・・・知っていらっしゃる><


- "6C > 5D > Habakiri > Dash > Omohikane" is possible.
- Can't follow up after 3C (it may be possible on CH).
- j.2C can be followed up with 2B


I wasn't doubting you, I phrased that poorly haha. I didn't post that change originally because I wasn't 100% sure if I read it right is all.


Oh don't worry, that's not what I meant. I was just reiterating because Axis forgot to mention some details.

Edited by HiagoX, 09 December 2010 - 06:46 AM.

Also F you haters, SFxT I still hold as one of my favorite 2D fighters


#8 09 December 2010 - 06:46 AM

Henaki
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i put a list format in the OP, if i ever get anything wrong, please correct me. it would be very helpful for any additional posts to be placed in that format.

follow some dumb idiot on twitter https://twitter.com/imahfb


#9 09 December 2010 - 07:04 AM

HiagoX
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Can you do Noel's next please :D


Nope.

とりあえず分かったこと幾つか。
・マコト3Cに5A5Bが当たらない
・フェンリル18ヒットのダメ2750くらいで最終段の最低保障が1000
・5A〉6A〉6C〉AH、5D〉6A〉6C〉AHは繋がる
・投げ硬直増加? 投げからハイダーに行けるタイミングが遅くなった
・4投げをラピして空ダJDは繋がる
・バレットからのフェンリルでダメ3300ほど


Noel

+ "5A > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" and "5D > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" are possible.

+ If you RC her back throw, you should be able to follow it up with j.D
- Her 5A and 5B can't hit Makoto's 3C.

o Fenrir's damage with 18 successful hits is around 2700. The last hit's minimum damage should be 1000.
o Her throw's recovery has been increased? You can follow-u her throw with Haida, but the timing is a little weird.
o Bullet Rain > Fenrir deals around 3300.

Fuck Noel, and please tell me Luna which of those "neutral" changes are good or bad.

Also F you haters, SFxT I still hold as one of my favorite 2D fighters


#10 09 December 2010 - 07:13 AM

LunaKage
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Nope.



Noel

+ "5A > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" and "5D > 6A > 6C > Astral Heat" are possible.
These Were always possible so no biggy.

+ If you RC her back throw, you should be able to follow it up with j.D
- Her 5A and 5B can't hit Makoto's 3C.
Both of these were always there.

o Fenrir's damage with 18 successful hits is around 2700. The last hit's minimum damage should be 1000.
If I take this word for word, this is a huge buff for damage, a naked fenrir used to 2.8, so thats a 100 damage nerf for a flat out super, but the last hit of fenrir had a minimum damage of only 400, and even if this means "All of fenrir has a minimum damage of 1000" its still a buff, because it normally only added 900 damage to combos.

o Her throw's recovery has been increased? You can follow-u her throw with Haida, but the timing is a little weird.
This is no big deal, even if the timing is "a little weird" as long as its possible it shouldn't make a difference, except for maybe online play, but that shit doesn't count anyway.

o Bullet Rain > Fenrir deals around 3300.
200 Damage buff.

Fuck Noel
:C


Done.

#11 09 December 2010 - 07:13 AM

kenja0
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Where is the source for all these changes?
I'm sure some of us would like to take a crack at the translations too.
Main :NU2: :DI: :ballAI:

#12 09 December 2010 - 07:27 AM

HiagoX
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とりま3時間程一人プレイしてわかったことでも。
B,Cアステロの頂点到達後は減速して落下感じでCはJ2Cに近い落ち方だった。
AアステロB>AとかB攻撃がノエルのアサルトスルー並み(に思えた)
B,CアステロDのゲージ速度が結構早い。
空中投げ後の2Bのタイミングが少し遅くなってる。
J2Cがjc出来なくなってた。
3Cの当たり判定が高くなっていてコメットを潜れなかった。
もしくはコメットの判定が大きくなったのかもしれない。

コンボに関しては3C>2C>2D>コメが出来るキャラと出来ないキャラがいた。
昇竜rc>CアローLv3D>コメ>Bアローが全部最速でBアロー後にコメは間に合わないっぽい。


1ヶ月以上マコトを触ってなかったので信用できる情報かはわかりませんが。


Makoto

+ 214A~B looks as fast as Noel's Assault Through.
+ 214B/C~D's charging speed is surprisingly fast.
+ Makoto's 3C hit has a increased hitbox, she could go under Comet Cannon.

- j.2C can't be jump cancelled any longer.
- Makoto's hitbox when doing 3C is bigger, but she could go under Comet cannon.
- "3C > 2C > 2D > Comet Cannon" is possible on some characters, but not all of them.

o After reaching its maxium height, Asteroid Vision B and C feels like deacelerating while falling down. (After that, something about Asteroid C being like j.2C, couldn't comprehend really well)
o 2B follow-up's timing after airthrow is looking a little slower.
o Perhaps Comet Cannon's hitbox is bigger now.
o "623C RC > 214C~D (LV3) > 236A~D (LV3) > 214B~D (LV3)" looks all faster than before. After Asteroid B, it seems like there is not enough time for you to use 236A~D again.

Also F you haters, SFxT I still hold as one of my favorite 2D fighters


#13 09 December 2010 - 07:33 AM

HiagoX
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More Makoto stuff:

- Comet Cannon's startup is slower.
- 5D > 2D > j.D > 236A~D can't be done.
- 2A feels a bit slower.

o "623C RC > 214C~D (LV3) > 236A~D (LV3) > 214B~D (LV3)" looks all faster than before. After Asteroid B, it seems like there is not enough time for you to use 236A~D again.


Update: It seems like this combo works in corner only. Not certain of that yet.

Noel:

o You can deal about 6100 damage off 4D FC in corner.

Edited by HiagoX, 09 December 2010 - 07:49 AM.

Also F you haters, SFxT I still hold as one of my favorite 2D fighters


#14 09 December 2010 - 08:20 AM

HiagoX
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Mu

・3C
+ Now it's jump cancelable.
o 2B can't be used for relaunch, but Furu no Tsurugi is fast so it can be used as follow-up.

・j.2C
- Looks like there's some recovery after she reaches ground.

+ 2B > 2C has been added.
+ Ame no Habaya deals 5 hits, can be followed-up.

Lambda

+ j.C and j.2C's damage increased.
+ If you are hit while in Gravity's startup frames, the gauge does not disappear.
+ "Corner throw > 5C > 6C > Spike Chaser > 5C > 6C > 236C > 6A > 6C > 2DD > Aerial combo" is possible, deals around 3000 damage.
+ "236C > 5C > Gravity > 2DD > Crescent > 6A > 6C > 236C > Aerial combo" is possible.
+ Gravity is now a Fatal Counter.
+ "FC Gravity > 5C > 6C > 236C" is possible.


- "236C > 5C > Gravity > 2DD > Crescent > 5D..." cannot be done anymore.
- Crescent Loop can be done for 3~4 reps max.

o From 5A anti air, you can deal about 2400 damage.
o 6C does not wallbound.
o 5C > 6C loop looks possible, but it may not be.

Where is the source for all these changes?
I'm sure some of us would like to take a crack at the translations too.


http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/game/45148/

Pick a character, be happy.

Edited by HiagoX, 09 December 2010 - 09:06 AM.

Also F you haters, SFxT I still hold as one of my favorite 2D fighters


#15 09 December 2010 - 08:43 AM

Shockna
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Mu

+ Ame no Habakiri deals 5 hits, can be followed-up.


To try to clear this one up, do you mean Ame no Habakiri (214D) or Ama no Habaya (236A)? I remember the loketest changes said that Habaya was getting raised from 3 to 5 hits, and since both Habakiri and Habaya hit 3 times in CS1, I'm not sure whether I should see this as a confirmation of a loketest change or just a separate, serious buff to one of her already pretty good specials.

BBCP: :RE: :IG: :AR:

GG XRD: Thinking...


#16 09 December 2010 - 08:55 AM

Henaki
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Tager

6Aアーマー
振りかぶって一瞬待ってからアーマー吸い付け始まるんで、「見てから返す」的な使い方はつらい
ボタンを離して一瞬後に攻撃が発生する
6A攻撃発生後の手を振り下ろす動作にもアーマー判定はある

5D
吸い付けが弱いが、上方向に攻撃範囲が広がった

Bドラからの2Bコレダー


じじい 椿 ラムダ まこと
姫様(5C6Aコレダーつながる)

不可
じん らぐな 猫 はくめん あらくぅね ぶらちな

他キャラは調べてない


GETB
出した瞬間相手がなぜか半キャラ分ほど手前に強制スライドする
そのせいで実質投げ間合いが広がった
磁力なし時だった気がするけど、磁力時限定だったら俺のみまちがい

立ちGETBが簡単に
人によっては十分安定化可能かと


総評
回りが弱くなったので相対的にイケる気がするが、
はくめんやはざま相手での追いかけっこ的展開自体は変わらない
煮詰まってきた際のノビシロがなければ厳しくなるかな

Seems to mention Standing GETB is much easier?

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#17 09 December 2010 - 09:05 AM

HiagoX
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To try to clear this one up, do you mean Ame no Habakiri (214D) or Ama no Habaya (236A)? I remember the loketest changes said that Habaya was getting raised from 3 to 5 hits, and since both Habakiri and Habaya hit 3 times in CS1, I'm not sure whether I should see this as a confirmation of a loketest change or just a separate, serious buff to one of her already pretty good specials.


Sorry, that was Habaya. I'm sleepy as fuck.

Fixed.


@Henaki

Gave it a really fast, sleepy read on some parts. Something about standing GETB being simple now, 5D not pulling as much, 6A having its active frames right after you press the button, and when he swings his arm, he gets superamor.

Edited by HiagoX, 09 December 2010 - 09:15 AM.

Also F you haters, SFxT I still hold as one of my favorite 2D fighters


#18 09 December 2010 - 10:37 AM

Henaki
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Tager

今日やってきたので気づいたことをいくつか
自分の感覚なので間違ってたら指摘をお願いします

・スレッジ関連
追加が飛び道具のみ無敵、一歩前進するのは変わらないのでSTG勢以外にも用途はあるかも。
Aスレの隙は少なくなっているのでそれと併用して使っていきたい。

・通常技関連
5Aと5Cがとにかく強い。
5Aは判定が上にも強くなっているので気軽に振っていける。
5Cキャンセル受付時間が長いのでヒット確認から色々出来る、画面端では5C当ててからの択が重要な気がする。特にジャンプを狩れるので意欲的に5C→コレダーを狙っていきたい。

・6A
強技。振りかぶって直ぐにアーマーが発生するので便利。昇竜などを一方的に潰せる。下段等何に潰されるかは調べられなかったorz。
起き攻めや、コンボ中の5Cキャンセルで溜めて出して攻めを継続するのが良い感じ。基本は2Cにつないでヒット確認コレダーかガード時3C。6Bがキャンセル可能かどうかは調べてないです。出来れば有効だと思う。
後ガードさせた後ドライバーは無理。CSと比べて硬直が長いので見てから反撃確定。

・チャージ
隙がかなり減った気がする。相手の空中攻撃をチャージで受ける→ジェネが間に合った。

・牽制・D技
5Dの仕様変更が相手キャラによって有利にも不利にもなるのでこれからの研究次第な感じ。ただ現状この性能で文句いっちゃいけないと思う。

・ダメージ
他キャラと比べたら全然高いと思う。なにか引っかかれば画面中央で3000↑取れるのは強いの一言。

後は他の人が書いてあるので割愛。しばらくは他のキャラより有利に戦えそう、伸び代は今までよりはあると思う。

後自分だけかもしれないが今作からガジェットフィンガーが全部2Dに化けるんだけど何かコツってある?

There's a lot of wishy-washiness in this post so...

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#19 09 December 2010 - 12:04 PM

Dream Maker
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Getting started with Carl :

・地上4Dhitは今までとおり

4D hitting on grounded opponent is the same as before

・姉消費もそんなキツくない(ただし死んだら復活まで時間かかる)

Nirvana's gauge consumption speed is not that bad (altough if she dies it takes indeed some time for her to regenerate)

・ジャンプに違和感

Jump feels somewhat inconfortable (poster doesn't say why though)

・8D2hit後から追撃しやすく

Easier to continue combo after 2hit 8D

・Bヴィヴァは多分CSと同じ

B vivace seems the same as CS

・カンタータの発生遅い

Cantata's startup is slower

Basic solo Carl air combo now : anything into cantabile, C, jB, j2C, jB, jC, jB, allegretto

Also according to another poster damage on throw seems really low.

Forward throw, j2C, jB, 2D, 5C, volante, j2C allecan, 5C, jB, jC, 2D does about 2500

Edited by Dream Maker, 09 December 2010 - 12:10 PM.


#20 09 December 2010 - 12:33 PM

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A bit more details :

姉体力  消費自体は大差無い(体感)。姉さんに相手の攻撃が当たると姉さんの周りに赤いエフェクトが発生するようになった。
     姉さんは基本的に超脆い。小パンペチペチされたら顔真っ赤にして止めに行くべき。
     回復速度は微遅くなった。回復発生までも遅くなったかも?

- Nirvana's gauge : There's actually no big change in consumption, probably no change at all. However Nirvana seems to lose a lot more gauge when hit by opponents and takes a lot more time to recover once broke. So basically you have to be really careful with it now. Apparently there is a red effect around her when she is hit, so when you see that the poster just recommends to stop moving her.

JC    叩き落とすって言うけど、落下速度はカルルが慣性で地上に落ちるのとほとんど同じ速度。
     一緒に着地して投げをすると初見殺しになった。

+ JC : knocks down, but the opponent falls at about the same speed as Carl. If I understand correctly the poster managed to get a sort of surprise kill by throwing while landing together with the opponent.

Bヴィヴァ 足元無敵削除。ってかCSと結局変わらない。

o B vivace lost its feet invicibility from loke test so it's basically the same as CS1

6A    凄く使いやすくなった。体感で分かるくらい無敵が長い。

+ 6A is way easier to use, invincibility feels really long. According to another poster 6A seems so strong now that using it against Tager j2C and despite missing the timing, the invicibility continued even after the actual attack hitting part of the animation.

3C そもそも3Cカウンターっていう状況があまりないため、現状ではあまり使えない。
    姉2Dと疑似ガー不仕掛けると使える。

- 3C Since there are few occasions to land 3C counter it can't be used much (an above poster however said that 3C > cantata still works). It's basically useful for pseudo unblockables with nirvana's 2D.

J2C すっごい跳ねるよ! 浮きが高すぎて、ガードされた後にアトミックコレダーが入った。

- Bounce after j2C is really high, so high that even after j2C being guarded Tager was able to catch Carl with atomic collider.

JB フェイタル削除だけど、空中受け身不可に近い。カルルが先に着地して浮かせ直しや、3Dに当てて攻め継続が出来る。

o jB fatal counter is indeed gone but jB counter is now close to being air untechable. Carl can pick the opponent up if he lands first or continue offense hitting with nirvana's 3D.


Also according to another poster

カンタービレ+姉呼び&Aビバとか3C+姉呼び&Aビバとかで起き攻めしながら挟む感じかね

o Cantabile + call nirvana, A vivace or 3C + call nirvana, A vivace followed by an okizeme seems kind of the new way to go to get into offense when she is far.

Edited by Dream Maker, 09 December 2010 - 12:49 PM.


#21 09 December 2010 - 12:35 PM

Henaki
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Updated first post with that first wave of carl stuff.

Dream Maker it might be best to consolidate your info into bullet points. It's not necessary but saves me some work. I also put in a thank you list in the first post so anyone who credibly translates info gets credit.

A mod MIGHT need to take over editing the first page in a while, I may very well run out of space to edit into the first post lol

edit: consolodated new Carl info in OP.

also, if anyone notices any mistakes or anything I missed, PLEASE TELL ME. I'm going through a shitload of info and need to safely water it down into chunks. I'm probably going to screw something up.

Edited by Henaki, 09 December 2010 - 12:43 PM.

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#22 09 December 2010 - 12:52 PM

Dream Maker
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Sorry for that, I tried to add + and - points before each info, also added an example on how 6A seems strong by now in my last post.

That's pretty much all the relevant info for Carl as for now, unless people on the BBS are still adding info as I'm writing. ^^

#23 09 December 2010 - 01:18 PM

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Henaki : regarding Carl you put the info on 8D 2hit easy to combo on the same line as the jump feeling weird info.

Also new combos :

o 5B>6B>6D>5C>cantabile>5C>J3BD>JC does 1800 uses few nirvana gauge and gives some decent advantage due to opponent still being hit by 3D when you land. To give you an idea on how much advantage it is, straight after landing from this combo, doing 2A connects red beat and straight 6C seems to be stoppable only by things as fast as 2A mashing from the opponent.

o 5B>6B>6D>5C>cantabile>5C>JB>allegretto>8D> [2D combo]> [allegretto combo] > cantata does about 4000

o A poster suggests that combos based on (JC>5B>2B>5C>6D)×n would be a better way to go for B&Bs considering how precious nirvana gauge is now. No idea if it really works or if it's pure speculation though.

Edited by Dream Maker, 09 December 2010 - 01:25 PM.


#24 09 December 2010 - 01:21 PM

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Basic solo Carl air combo now : anything into cantabile, C, jB, j2C, jB, jC, jB, allegretto


I believe that to be incorrect. I'm pretty sure that he wrote jc lower case in parantheses meaning jump cancel.

単体コンはカンタービレ>C>JB>J2C>JB(jc)>JB>アレグまで確認

I believe it's: anything into cantabile, 5C, j.B, j.2C, j.B, Jump Cancel, j.B, allegretto

I mean none of us have seen it yet, so I could be wrong, but with j.C causing knockdown, a j.C there doesn't seem to make sense

#25 09 December 2010 - 01:25 PM

Dream Maker
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Yes, you are right. I actually wrote jC as an abbreviation in the intent of writing jump cancel and not the actual jC move, sorry if there has been misunderstandings.

#26 09 December 2010 - 01:27 PM

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All good. I wouldn't have even said anything, except that it made it into the original post, and so needs to be edited now.

#27 09 December 2010 - 03:02 PM

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From Jiyuna. His first impressions of the game.

[07:35][07:36] <jiyuphone> Ragna new bnb is.... DEAD SPIKE LOOPS!?

[07:39] <jiyuphone> Fatal Counter blood kain combos doing 4500 damage

[08:00] <jiyuphone> Tager is s tier
[08:06] <The_Third> lmao
[08:06] <The_Third> how's cs2 ragna?
[08:07] <jiyuphone> Ass. Really bad

[08:08] <The_Third> shoutouts to hazama doing no damage
[08:08] <The_Third> i assume
[08:09] <jiyuphone> Yeah he got damage nerf
[08:09] <jiyuphone> Ragna too

[08:14] <jiyuphone> [Ragna] 3c techable. Can't use in combo

[08:32] <jiyuphone> Rachel is really good

[08:42] <jiyuphone> Hazama just did triple chain into 623d into 2b > 236d
[08:42] <jiyuphone> 1400 damage
[08:43] <jiyuphone> Lmao

[08:55] <Soniti> is Rachel's j.a viable?
[08:55] <Soniti> as an overhead
[08:56] <jiyuphone> Yes
[08:56] <jiyuphone> They abusing it already
[08:56] <jiyuphone> Not even as overhead, she extending combos and confirming shit with it
[08:57] <jiyuphone> And her zoning game is just as strong plus damage
[08:57] <jiyuphone> She did 5200 earlier
[08:57] <Soniti> !!!
[08:57] <Soniti> off of what
[08:57] <Soniti> 5b?
[08:58] <Soniti> Whoa, Rachel's fork chains into stuff again?
[08:58] <Soniti> or just links on hit
[08:58] <jiyuphone> Just did 4300, 50 meter
[08:59] <The_Third> better than anything cs rachel had
[08:59] <Soniti> So are they using j.3d j.a as a way to push to the corner?
[08:59] <The_Third> everything*
[09:00] <jiyuphone> Yes. J3d aaaaaa
[09:00] <jiyuphone> She is legit

[09:01] <jiyuphone> Tager super armor is lol. And his a sledge is good

[09:01] <Soniti> Can she still do BBL -> dash under sj. 8d j.2c (level 3)
[09:02] <Soniti> is his super armor move punishable on block/ib?
[09:02] <jiyuphone> She did j.c ch into 2x super
[09:02] <jiyuphone> For 4100. No poles setup
[09:02] <jiyuphone> And he dropped followup combo
[09:03] <jiyuphone> Yes she has the fc j2c combo

[09:08] <jiyuphone> Burst change suckssssssss
[09:08] <Soniti> Burst change???
[09:08] <jiyuphone> Burst takes 3 primers

[09:08] <jiyuphone> Tager taking 2 primers with blockstring
[09:09] <jiyuphone> Raping anyone who bursts
[09:10] <jiyuphone> His super armor is Soooo gay
[09:11] <jiyuphone> It's 2 part move. I dunno if 2nd move automatically comes out
[09:11] <jiyuphone> But if it does, unsafe
[09:11] <jiyuphone> It's like 6a2c chain

[09:12] <jiyuphone> Hakumen hotaru fc blows them to corner lmao. This game is jokes

[09:13] <jiyuphone> Tager is all buffs though
[09:14] <jiyuphone> I still think this game is too amine for him to be top, but he's way better

[09:16] <jiyuphone> Hakumen did 2500 off 4c for 3 stars
[09:16] <jiyuphone> No big deal

[09:19] <jiyuphone> BBS says [Jin] and Ragna are really weak

[09:22] <jiyuphone> They didn't add any new colors which is pretty bullshit

[09:23] <jiyuphone> Rachel poking with fork and canceling into jump?
[09:23] <jiyuphone> Fork > j3d a
[09:24] <jiyuphone> From real far. Max distance fork
[09:25] <jiyuphone> She still has oki, etc
[09:25] <jiyuphone> WB Rachel

[09:25] <jiyuphone> Hakumen just looks cooler
[09:26] <jiyuphone> Faster, tsubaki ground slide

[09:29] <jiyuphone> Tager just took 4 primers in 2 seconds
[09:29] <jiyuphone> Lmao
[09:30] <jiyuphone> He could do 5 with spark bolt
[09:31] <jiyuphone> Blahblah 2c3c rc 6a2c3c spark bolt
[09:31] <jiyuphone> 5 primers
[09:31] <jiyuphone> Into 5500 tager buster combo

[09:32] <jiyuphone> If not just 4k 2c combo
[09:33] <jiyuphone> He is DESTROYING guard now lol
[09:34] <jiyuphone> Just resetting into primer rape
[09:34] <jiyuphone> Barrier and then lose your guard bar and get broken in danger mode

[09:56] <jiyuphone> Yeah [Dead Spike] on airborne opponents makes them spin
[09:56] <jiyuphone> I'm doing DS 5d(1) x3


I cut up the irc log a lot to shorten it.

All in all, looks like ass.

#28 09 December 2010 - 03:07 PM

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Hey guys! New here and figured that, since coming from a play session of the game here in Japan using my main Litchi, I'd contribute her changes as best as I can describe them (still a bit unfamiliar with some of the terminology so forgive me if I flub up).

-Itssu>A,B,or C can no longer be comboed from her 2B[m], 2C [m], 3C[m], 5C[m], or 6D[m]. However, 6D[m] can still be comboed from 5C[m].
-4D[m] on connect no longer stuns the opponent but instead sends them to the ground sliding. Only combo opportunity from that that I came across is to dash>2B 5B JC B j.BCB Ippatsu.
-4A[m] overhead no longer bounces the opponent in the air on connect; just knocks 'em back.
-Successful counter with 6B[m] wall-bounces ONLY in the corner, otherwise it just sends the opponent flying back sans wall-bounce.

Time to change my play style with her from now on!

Edited by MadVash2005, 09 December 2010 - 04:13 PM.
amending info


#29 09 December 2010 - 03:18 PM

Urichinan
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That would be:

Itsuu can not be followed-up from 2B[m], 2C[m], 3C[m] or 6D[m].
4D[m] makes the opponent slide, 2B > 5B > j.B > j.B > j.C > j.B works. (Itssu is a move with the Staff, this is Staffles so it may be Ippatsu at the end)
6A[m] no longer bounces the opponent.

Edited by Urichinan, 09 December 2010 - 03:23 PM.


#30 09 December 2010 - 03:29 PM

MadVash2005
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^^^You're right. Ippatsu was what I meant when mentioning that combo opportunity. I get those two mixed up from time to time. BTW, does the [m] stand for "with staff"?

Edited by MadVash2005, 09 December 2010 - 03:32 PM.





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