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[CS2] Noel Vermillion Beginner Questions Thread


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#1 11 May 2011 - 02:16 AM

LunaKage
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#2 11 May 2011 - 02:22 AM

mAc Chaos
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How can I get a waifu like Noel?

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#3 11 May 2011 - 04:22 AM

Sahgren
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How can I get a waifu like Noel?


Make Noel your waifu, no need to settle for someone just "like" her when you can go for authenticity.

#4 11 May 2011 - 05:24 AM

Nephi_999
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how to 22B 66C loop? or is that a 22C? i'm hopelessly lost.

#5 11 May 2011 - 11:27 AM

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In the 2D combo of the "most practical combos" part of the combo thread, I have trouble on the 236A, 66C, j.D, d.6D, d.6B part. It seems that the d.6B connects too late on a random base. Or is it opponent height ?
It seems I can play with this height by varying the timing of 214A, and the timing of 66C. But then, I risk dropping the combo at these points.
Any advice ?

#6 11 May 2011 - 12:16 PM

dogg201
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how to 22B 66C loop? or is that a 22C? i'm hopelessly lost.


Like this person I'm finding this loop hard as heck o_0. The combo I'm trying to do is " 3C > 22BC > 66C > 22B > 66C > 22B > 66A > 6C > 22B > 66C > 22B > 66A > 6C > 22B > 6D > 236A > 6C > sj.D > 6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D - 4,290"

I get maybe twelve hits before I drop the thing. The 2nd 66A is normally where I collapse.

The other combo I'm just trying to get under my belt is "6A > 6C > j.D > Reload > 2B > 6C > 22B > 22BBC > 66C > 22B > 66C > 5D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6C > d.6A > d.236D -2,958/42"

Pretty much break down as soon as I get to 22B. Always Whiffs. Not aware if the person I'm training against effect the combos, but I'm practicing against Jin.

 

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#7 11 May 2011 - 12:42 PM

Bolverk-GTM
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Like this person I'm finding this loop hard as heck o_0. The combo I'm trying to do is " 3C > 22BC > 66C > 22B > 66C > 22B > 66A > 6C > 22B > 66C > 22B > 66A > 6C > 22B > 6D > 236A > 6C > sj.D > 6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D - 4,290"

I get maybe twelve hits before I drop the thing. The 2nd 66A is normally where I collapse.

The other combo I'm just trying to get under my belt is "6A > 6C > j.D > Reload > 2B > 6C > 22B > 22BBC > 66C > 22B > 66C > 5D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6C > d.6A > d.236D -2,958/42"

Pretty much break down as soon as I get to 22B. Always Whiffs. Not aware if the person I'm training against effect the combos, but I'm practicing against Jin.


Jin's probably the easiest to do the Haida on. He's probably too high for that 22B to catch him, so after the reload, do 2B > 6C > B+C > 6C > 22B > stuff. Hope that helps.

#8 11 May 2011 - 01:11 PM

Ichipoo
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In the 2D combo of the "most practical combos" part of the combo thread, I have trouble on the 236A, 66C, j.D, d.6D, d.6B part. It seems that the d.6B connects too late on a random base. Or is it opponent height ?
It seems I can play with this height by varying the timing of 214A, and the timing of 66C. But then, I risk dropping the combo at these points.
Any advice ?

It would be helpful if you would post the full combo and the character(s) you are performing on as well so that it would be easier for us to help you.

EDIT: I think I just found out why. You're probably right, it's because the opponent is too high for the d.6B, so try modifying the combo into j.D > d.6D > d.5D > d.5C > d.6B > BT.

Edited by Ichipoo, 11 May 2011 - 01:17 PM.

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#9 11 May 2011 - 04:14 PM

LunaKage
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I haven't had any problems so far with the j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > BT ender, so post the full combo and I'll see what I think is happening to throw it off.

Also, people need to stop focusing on the haida too much, learn her BnBs before you even attempt haida, it will do wonders for you in real matches.

#10 11 May 2011 - 05:43 PM

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It's this one, performed on Jin:
2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.236D

#11 11 May 2011 - 05:51 PM

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Do you mean the d.6D won't connect? Because if you're hitting d.6D then d.6B should usually connect connect.

Anyway, if you're having trouble connecting d.6D after j.D then it's all about the height. Once you do 214A > 2B > 6C, remember to leave a slight delay before you do 236A otherwise your opponent will be too high in the air.

I'll mention that in the combo thread too to avoid any more confusions.
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#12 11 May 2011 - 06:11 PM

KraaL
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remember to leave a slight delay before you do 236A otherwise your opponent will be too high in the air.


Thanks :)
Practice time then, as I sometimes drop the combo at 236A, delaying it too much !

#13 11 May 2011 - 06:13 PM

Ichipoo
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Also, people need to stop focusing on the haida too much, learn her BnBs before you even attempt haida, it will do wonders for you in real matches.

Pretty much this. If you focus on learning her Haida first despite having difficulty with it and not her basic BnBs, when you jump into matches, you're not going to have much in terms of your "combo repertoire" if you can barely perform the Haida and barely know any of her basic combos. Hell, despite the weeks of practice I had in CS2 already, I STILL don't know how to perform the Haida loop and yet I'm do just fine when I play Ad-Hoc with my friends since Noel's BnBs are basically etched into my heart already.

It's this one, performed on Jin:
2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.236D

Just a question but aren't you supposed to input a BC > 6C in between the "6C > 236A" so that your opponent's height in the air will be brought down just a tad bit?

And if I may put this out here...

IMO, it's okay if you modify a combo you are performing mid-match if you are afraid that you can't perform it yet and that you'll drop it. It's better actually finishing the combo than trying to execute a combo with the exact inputs in mind only to drop it if your technical skill isn't quite there yet. For example, I personally am still not used to the timing of Noel's 6C > BC loop due to how my fingers are still used to the loop's timing in CT and with 6C having a slower start up, so temporarily, I omit it from my combos and go straight for the 236A and it hasn't failed me yet. However, I'm not discouraging practicing the combo with the exact inputs. Eventually, I too need to get used to the timing of Noel's 6C > BC loop in the future as I am positive it may save me.

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#14 11 May 2011 - 06:28 PM

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Just a question but aren't you supposed to input a BC > 6C in between the "6C > 236A" so that your opponent's height in the air will be brought down just a tad bit?


Not always. I've found that on some rare occasions 6C > BC > 6C will whiff on the second 6C (due to spacing I'm guessing) but 6C > slight delay > 236A hasn't failed me thus far. You're right in that the throw whiff can be used for height adjustments sometimes, but you just have to make sure you know when it'll work and when it won't.

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Edited by HexaNoid, 11 May 2011 - 06:32 PM.

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#15 11 May 2011 - 07:21 PM

Nephi_999
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for example on which combos i have trouble with

6A > 6C > j.D > Reload > 2B > 6C > 22B > 22BBC > 66C > 22B > 66C > 5D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6C > d.6A > d.236D 2,958/42

for my problem i get stuck at the 66C after the 22BBC > 66C > 22B on any combo that includes this.
i am assuming the 66C isn't hitting for timing problem or whatnot. i was practicing against platina if that helps.

wish i had cs1 haida still :(

#16 11 May 2011 - 07:31 PM

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Just my two cents and I don't know how big Plat's hitbox is but if you're practicing something for the first time I suggest using someone with a pretty big hitbox like Tager (poor Tager) just so you know if you can land it.

Edited by pktazn, 11 May 2011 - 07:33 PM.

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#17 11 May 2011 - 07:34 PM

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Try practicing on other characters (Tager maybe) and see if that works. Then if you get it down on him, start trying it on others to see who it will and won't work on.

Otherwise just go for 66C > 236A > 66C > xxx instead.
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#18 11 May 2011 - 07:40 PM

Ichipoo
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Just my two cents and I don't know how big Plat's hitbox is but if you're practicing something for the first time I suggest using someone with a pretty big hitbox like Tager (poor Tager) just so you know if you can land it.

Especially if you're practicing the Haida obviously. How I practiced the CS1 Haida, I started off with Tager, then moved on to Hakumen and Bang, then moved on to those with "standard sized"/Haida-able characters.

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#19 11 May 2011 - 09:02 PM

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oh well, i eventually got it. seems i have to pick up with 66C on the small bounce that 22B has or just hit early enough. seems i was just in a bad habit from how forgiving the loop was in cs1.

and i find it a good habit to maximize damage on every hit, since noel is a bit risky to play anyway. haida is there so i'll practice it til i die.

Edited by Nephi_999, 11 May 2011 - 09:06 PM.

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#20 11 May 2011 - 09:19 PM

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It seems everyone has trouble doing the haida loop on certain characters. I have trouble with doing it on Hakumen in CS1 and I can't EVER do it on Jin. I know this has been said repeatedly, but I really wouldn't put so much stock into that unless it's literally the only thing you have left to learn.

I don't ever bother with it in CS1 online since it's very particular and easily breaks down (for me). I will have to see how it is in CS2 tomorrow.

#21 12 May 2011 - 12:34 AM

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Does Noel's 2c still have the same property as it did previously, where when the first hit CH's, the CH is carried through the second hit as well?

#22 12 May 2011 - 12:43 AM

Sahgren
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Does Noel's 2c still have the same property as it did previously, where when the first hit CH's, the CH is carried through the second hit as well?


According to the frame data here on Dustloop, yes.

#23 12 May 2011 - 01:10 AM

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Luna, why am i only doing 4.5k with this combo 2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.4D > 236A > 66C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5B > d.5D > d.236D?

Only 4.6 2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 66C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5B > d.5D > d.236D with this one.


And how do I do 6C[2], 4D whiff, d.5d for this combo: 3C > 22BBC > 66C > 4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 6C(2) > 4D(whiff) > d.5D > d.5C > d.4D > d.236D > 66C > sj.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5B > d.236D ?

#24 12 May 2011 - 09:45 AM

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Luna, why am i only doing 4.5k with this combo 2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.4D > 236A > 66C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5B > d.5D > d.236D?

Only 4.6 2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 66C(2) > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5B > d.5D > d.236D with this one.


And how do I do 6C[2], 4D whiff, d.5d for this combo: 3C > 22BBC > 66C > 4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 6C(2) > 4D(whiff) > d.5D > d.5C > d.4D > d.236D > 66C > sj.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5B > d.236D ?


You're asking why you are only doing 4.5k? I'm not sure I understand the question.

And for the 4D wiff combo, I've never even seen that combo before, seems like something that is combo vid material as opposed to a potential "go-to" combo.

#25 12 May 2011 - 02:13 PM

Ichipoo
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Can anyone care to explain how come Hakumen keeps teching out even from just 6C > 236A? You would think his bigger hitbox would be more lenient with this.

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#26 12 May 2011 - 03:11 PM

HexaNoid
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That really depends on the combo you're doing and maybe height I guess, since I've OB'd Hakumen quite a few times before.

What combo are you doing and when does he tech out?
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#27 12 May 2011 - 04:18 PM

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What are some good combos off a CH 5b? I know you can cancel to 3c if 5b is a counter.
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#28 12 May 2011 - 08:14 PM

Ichipoo
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That really depends on the combo you're doing and maybe height I guess, since I've OB'd Hakumen quite a few times before.

What combo are you doing and when does he tech out?

2B > 6A > 6C > 236A > 66C stuff. He techs out before the 66C can hit, perhaps it's the height though I can't perform the 6C > BC loop on him. :psyduck:

What are some good combos off a CH 5b? I know you can cancel to 3c if 5b is a counter.

Pretty much CH 5B > 3C > stuff is the only one that comes to mind. If your reactions aren't quite good enough to hit-confirm CH 5bs and you go autopilot into 5C with at least 50 heat, you can for 5B > 5C > Rapid > 66A > 6C > 236A > 66C > Chain Revolver shit.

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#29 12 May 2011 - 08:48 PM

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What are some good combos off a CH 5b? I know you can cancel to 3c if 5b is a counter.


My favorite off of CH5B is currently:

CH 5B > 3C > 22BBBC~66 > 66C > 4D > d.6A(wiff) > d.5C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > Bloom Trigger (3.5 give or take a few)

#30 12 May 2011 - 10:32 PM

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2B > 6A > 6C > 236A > 66C stuff. He techs out before the 66C can hit, perhaps it's the height though I can't perform the 6C > BC loop on him. :psyduck:


Yeah, I've always found Haku's hitbox to be a weird one for that loop. At any rate, just delay the 236A for as long as possible in that combo and it should work. If not, just know that you have to omit the OpticA on Hakumen when you do that combo I guess.
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