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[VS] Lei-Lei: Kwaidan


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#1 21 June 2011 - 09:49 PM

Kajoq
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LeiLei is awesome, and you can be awesome with her. I'll use this thread to condense down all the other info we've compiled - So bear with me until I get it a little more assembled

Mizuumi Character page: http://vsav.mizuumi.net/wiki/Lei-Lei
JP Frame data page: http://darkstalkers..../lei-lei-s.html

Info from GBursine's SRK thread:

- c.LK, +c.LK, +s.LP c.HP s.HK: this chain is to avoid GC's at a distance on reaction. it
also strings with early anti air with s.lp. the s.hk at the end is to recover her c.hp sweep
faster.

- c.LK c.MP c.MK c.HP s.HK: her main chain combo after an IAD or to hit with. <-IMPORTANT

- c.lk c.mp c.mk xx tenraiha: not easy at all to execute, but it's worth it to practice. it's
practical with practice and super dexterity, so if you're maining LeiLei go for it. in the
corner you can loop traps with qcf hp, c.lk c.mk c.hp chain to hit low all the time, then
cancel the c.hp with tenraiha (not as hard to execute) and the spikes will OTG you again for
another one.

- dash c.mp c.mk. or c.mp c.mk alone: this is used in dash mixups mainly, but it can early
anti air, and it's a chain you can use to confirm a sweep with.

- f+mp c.mk: this far poke avoids GC's, and recovers her spike ball faster. it's not used
much for a combo though, just to zone and poke with.

LeiLei's tricks aren't in her combos, she only has a few useful ones.

iadATCK, s.LP, s.LK, s.HK, MP, MP, Up
*the 2 mp's cancel the rk into heaven spike super

-Dizzy opponent, hp projectile, iad.rk,(projectile hits), iad.rh, cont w/ ground combo

-the spike balls on Heavenly spikes(lk, rk, mp, mp, up) can otg
---

How does LeiLei's projectile work?
Her projectile has 3 trajectories, based on which strength punch you use. LP is a low arc, MP arc goes across the middle of the screen nearly to the opposite top corner, and HP goes almost completely straight up as well as being the only one that hits Overhead. The shuriken she throws is the tell for your dizzy coming up. It will always go Shuriken->Akuma Statue->Dizzy (either hammer or ice block). She also has 2 random dizzy items: Chun Li Bracelet, Star block. Also - note that the dizzy will not come out with LP - if you have a dizzy item 'in the hole' and throw a LP projectile, you lose that dizzy and will have to cycle back to another shuriken.



Lei Lei(lay lay)/hsien ko

Hsien ko is BEST played rtsd/zoner.

her best jump ins are mp, mk, hp, rk. maybe lp.
mp out prioritizes most moves in the game, stays out long, and during a jumpin, you have the option to chain to any of her higher moves if it connects(or doesnt).

j.mk puts hella lota hitstun.

Lei Lei's has 2 dominant* ways of getting in on the opponent.
1- pendulum swing in
- If timed right, you can swing her pendulum to go fucking fast across the screen... crossup or not, it does a damn good job of getting in the other guy's face.
2- IAD- Instant air dash. IMO its ALOT more bitch to pull out in VS than other games. It allows lei lei to control when she wants to land.
she has 4 different options to pull out when iading.
-mp- it what genearlly should be used for jumpins and air2air..as said be4, it outprioritized almost everything. Her best air move hands down
-rk- its got different hitboxes, so use it when crossing up the opponent.
-mk- alot**** of frame advantage. I'm gunna test it more, cuz it gives so much...
-lk- when mp doesn't cut it for air to air confrontations, more than likely, these will out prioritize.


I almost never [ground]dash in to do a chain combo. I don't ever recall seeing the japs dash in. imo the only things its good for are:
-spectral slicer(command throw...coolest name)
-rk- lei lei's better recovering far hitting normal


k.. now for her footsie game.
Lei lei has so many ranged moves, its good to know which to, and not to use.
The good:
F+mp- her farthest reaching poke. she swings a mace ball thingy out. The hit boxes go to the very edge of the ball. Very useful, tho make sure they at block it(so you can chain to rk)
s.rk- This move, is sooo necessary for her game. It has incredible range, comes out fast, and recovers fast as hell. end all chains in this.
s.lp/s.lk-both have alot of priority. they're a bit more defensive in that you're expecting to hit your opponent outa whatever the hell hes doing.then maybe(or likely) go for the chain(though you're likely to be a distance away)

c.mp- its her low ranged poke... good as hell, and has distant horizontal range.

The most abusive normal: Standing roundhouse
this is her best move overall handsdown. when doing any sort of ground chain combo, its best to end it with s.rh. Why??? you're safe doing a ranged poke(s.hp, rk.... or F+mp, rk)... or, if you're doing a ground chain, wiff canceling the s.rk allows you to:
-iad forward/back
-pursuit
-scythe-> semi immediate cancel(for crossup... or no crossup)



Anti-air normals
j.mp- I'm putting this in late.. mainly cuz i just rememberd it. use it like chun's j.u+rk
s.lp/lk- either or, they're for hittin opponents landing more in front of you. just good at outprioritizing junk. and I think the knife is like.... not an extension.... I dunno how to explain it...

Back+mp- here, she throws out her claw above her head. its only a decent AA in VS... it works much better in VS2

c.mp- if the enemy is about one character away, and you anticipate them jumping, throw this out. the popping up claws have surprising vertical range. too frekin good... and of course, should they not block, you have s.rk to protect yourself.

s.rk- a distance AA. Works decently, trades most of the time
c.rk- I find this move annoying as hell... She does an angled handstand. the hitboxes are annoying as fuck, and it comes out somewhat delayed. When I first played her I thought this move was good. it doesn't hit behind her surprisingly, and I wouldn't recomend relying on it so much.It seems like I get a guaranteed pursuit, cuz I seem to recover early... (my friend always bitches that he can't roll)... tho I'll halfta test that more
F+fp - good if you can anticipate them. tho from what H-king says, they can hit you out of it. I personally don't like it..I rarely ever use it. I think it has too much recovery.... but the japs use it, so it must be good

how to use teh Specials:
=gong(QCB+P): three uses:
-tk gong-(lp, or ES) AA, and anti rush down.. this shits too good
-psychic gong(lp gong)- it comes out fast as hell. if you're jumping in, and you see a projectile, psychic gong that shit. lp comes out fast, and all you need is a bit of practice, and it'll be like, second nature.
-zoning(ES)- its much like lilith's soul flash, only it can reflect moves, and if timed right, you can combo it into the knife super.

=spinny scythe(DP+P, cancelable w/ kick)- I thought initially, this move was a pos.... boy was I wrong... Its priority is random, I'm pretty sure this is how it works... lei lei's [best*]hitboxes are constantly circling around her... so the enemy has to time it if they really wanna hit... it has 4 uses:
-faking... use it, and fake it in the beginning of your arch downward
-crossup... self explanitory... VERY good... if you can master this shit, she'll fly so fucking fast, that when she goes at the opponent, they need mvc2 reflexes to see whether or not a high hit will come out before you land, and do a quick low one
-runnaway bitch- jump, scythe at the highest point, kick cancel on your way up(this is her double jump basically).. proceed to go across the screen with a dash, or do a hp scythe to stay uptop.
-baiting. A lei lei that can pendulum cancel well can use this move freely. so, you can swing->cancel->block->free combo... of course if they go for a ground normal, you'll likely get hit by something.

...another thing I've seen japs do, is a scythe in the middle of the screen, canceled out into another scythe, to crossup... Its just a fake/crossup variation

*after either the first or 2nd pendulum cancel, you STILL have the option to air dash
*she has hitboxes all around her... tho I think at that main point(where the blade is) is where it has the most priority.


=random object projectiles:
lp- its another poke... tho it doesn't allow for dizzy projectiles. its still good in cycleing to a dizzy one though. goes 5/6ths of the screen.
mp- most useful zoning tool imo. arcs across the screen. allows you to ad/iad forward.
hp- should be used after a heaven spike super to set up for an anji type unblockable.
*note1: the biggest drawback of all her projectiles is that she stays on the ground so goddamn long.... so while it may seem like a good idea to throw a mp projectile against jedah, you risk getting put into his underworld grab super
*note2: the 2nd projectile after the shruinken(or the one after the akuma statue) is always a dizzy projectile...

=DF mode: How to use it.
Knockdown/dizzy, activate, rush in, oodles of s.lps and walking forward.
its always good to cancel out of it before it actually ends... especilally lei lei's since hers depends on how far away you are from lin lin.
-lei lei has super armor:evil: don't be afraid
-I often go into df off of a dizzy proj. Make sure you dont hesitate. they can come out of the dizzy if you waste too much time running/dashing to them and activating.
-her df counters anyone else's df.

Lei leiQuerks

*heaven spikes super(the ones that come fron the air).... heaven spikes sets up for an unblockable hp projectile.
-teh BALLS otg... the big block thingy does too I think..
-the block thingy that falls initially is an overhead

-=Things you should/can do during a match=-
-rtsd.
-jumping mp(kinda like chun's straight up rk)
-iad.mp/mk->groundchain
-random ground pokes
-c.mk and close s.mp are buffereable... kinda hard to set up imo, but should you manage to land em(doable off the lowest iad)...combo that shit

-knife super makes for a decent AA if you can anticipate them attacking you from afar when they jump in. ...follow up w/ iad to otg heaven spikes.
-knife super is the F U to alot of DF's.
-no bombs, unless you're japanese
-anji type unblockable setups are doable in the corner... unless you're up against a good gcer

more to come after my spring break
Thanx satome for inadvetently making me want to write this


Edited by Kyle, 12 March 2013 - 06:49 PM.

Vampire Savior is what you should be playing.

#2 22 June 2011 - 10:52 PM

Kabalitico
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Besides Sasasuka and Ego, are there any other great Lei Lei players at Japan?

#3 22 June 2011 - 11:10 PM

Skankin Garbage
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Atsuta.

#4 27 June 2011 - 03:25 PM

Kyle
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What do you use as a FAST anti-air? I see cr.hk, Tenraihai & 6hp, Tenraihai as effective, but what about quicker options.

Added some stuff to OP from SRK.

Edited by Kyle, 27 June 2011 - 04:42 PM.

Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#5 29 June 2011 - 01:40 PM

Kajoq
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s.LP / s.LP both have pretty decent boxes for AA, LK especially http://darkstalkers....ei-n-lk-05f.png

s.MP has its occasional uses as well.

In general though if I'm unsure of whether or not ill be able to AA their jumpin, I'll just stand up and go for the one touch tech and respace them so I can predict their next jump a little better and go for AA projectile/ 6HP or something along those lines

Also, if you look at the hitbox on her s.MK it theoretically is one of her best anti-airs, but with 10F startup and a very vulnerable recovery, i've never gotten too comfortable using it heavily

Edited by Kajoq, 29 June 2011 - 01:43 PM.

Vampire Savior is what you should be playing.

#6 08 July 2011 - 02:46 AM

the_d3v
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No LeiLei thread is complete without talk of pendulum cancels and spamming dat Tenraiha.

Uguu~ ;________;


#7 23 July 2011 - 11:07 PM

GWONAM
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Yeah, a small section on Pendulum Cancels would help. It'd be good to mention how they're used to build Tenrai Ha meter, avoid stuff, etc.

And maybe a section of brief matchup strategies as well for us new players?

Edited by GWONAM, 23 July 2011 - 11:11 PM.


#8 25 October 2011 - 03:48 PM

Kyle
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Yeah, a small section on Pendulum Cancels would help. It'd be good to mention how they're used to build Tenrai Ha meter, avoid stuff, etc.

And maybe a section of brief matchup strategies as well for us new players?


Credit to Risunomeijin on SRK post# 1317



Cancel it in the sway direction to get the forward and reverse momentum.

Save the AD for your decent to move around normals and/or cross up

c.FPxxs.RHxxpendulum is really gross. Can hit on either side really ambiguously. Cancel the cross up into ground chain, cancel the same side overhead to j.mp to ground chain.

Hitting standing tall characters with the pendulum gives you the chance to cancel after the first couple of hits to air chain to rejump infinite.
Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#9 31 October 2011 - 01:57 PM

Kyle
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So, can someone explain how Sasazuka did Pendulum -> Airdash -> Pendulum in this vid? He does it 3 times. First one is at about 0:23 in the video.

Normally Air Dashing takes away the ability to do air specials at all. I can't get it to come out at all.



_____________________________

Yeah, doing a kara for an air special when you normally can't allows you to special. So technically, when you do an air normal, you can do a special as well.


______________________________


So I asked Ego-Lei about the airdash into special thing and he basically told me just to kara off MP or HP. Can't do it off LP

<egolei> 623P?-> K -> 66 -> 62MP -> 3 -> P
For Pendulum -> AirDash -> Pendulum

<egolei> 99 -> 21 -> MP -> 4 ->P
For AirDash -> Gong

Edited by Kyle, 31 October 2011 - 02:19 PM.

Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#10 03 November 2011 - 07:35 PM

GWONAM
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So, can someone explain how Sasazuka did Pendulum -> Airdash -> Pendulum in this vid? He does it 3 times. First one is at about 0:23 in the video.

Normally Air Dashing takes away the ability to do air specials at all. I can't get it to come out at all.



_____________________________

Yeah, doing a kara for an air special when you normally can't allows you to special. So technically, when you do an air normal, you can do a special as well.


______________________________


So I asked Ego-Lei about the airdash into special thing and he basically told me just to kara off MP or HP. Can't do it off LP

<egolei> 623P?-> K -> 66 -> 62MP -> 3 -> P
For Pendulum -> AirDash -> Pendulum

<egolei> 99 -> 21 -> MP -> 4 ->P
For AirDash -> Gong

Could you perhaps post a video of this? And also c.FPxxs.RHxxpendulum?

#11 04 November 2011 - 02:28 PM

Kyle
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..., cr.hp, st.hk WHIFF, RECOVER, Pendulum


As far as a video showing kara cancels, Yes. I would be happy to put a video together.

Heading to Lexington tomorrow, will try to get Kajoq to do the playing & talking. I'll record. :3
Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#12 07 November 2011 - 05:57 PM

Kyle
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From Kajoq@ SRK Post# 2836

Ok, Just ran a set with mar and did a little testing / had it occur in a few matches under a number of situations.

Air blocking Leilei's projectile seems to allow you to airblock any grounded normal all the way until you hit the ground. IE:
Airblock Hp projectile, Airblock c.RH at the top of the screen (probably her tallest AA normal, either that or 6+HP)
Airblock HP projectile, wail on s.LK or s.LP and laugh as they stay airborne for 15 jabs in a row.

Also it seems that if you force them to airblock an air chain, then beat them to the ground and make them block a grounded normal very low and it allows an airblock.

Three situations I just made this occur in:

Midscreen air chain j.MP, j.HK (i land) c.LP with opponent low to ground. Lets them airblock the whole string

Very low ES gong that they land in and then 6+HP. Allowed an airblock, normally is a free Anti-Air if they're high

very low IAD MK, crossup c.LP - Airblocked

I'm sure i've forced other situations with other characters but i'm not sure what other projectiles or specials might cause the same effect as airblocking LeiLei's projectiles

EDIT: All the information above was from Hsien-Ko vs Felicia. Just tried to similar some of the same instances with Q-Bee and she is not able to stay in airblock. I guess its because of her float mode, but even if you airblock while holding 1, and continue holding 1 she immediately drops airblock stance as soon as the hitstun ends.
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#13 08 November 2011 - 08:18 AM

GWONAM
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Hmm… Interesting stuff. So if you hit an airborne opponent with M or H Anki Hou, they can block all ground normals on the way down? What does this allow Lei Lei to set up, if anything?

Concerning the airchains, does that work with other characters as well? If not, what causes Lei Lei to do it?

#14 08 November 2011 - 02:11 PM

Kyle
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Airblocking grounded moves is a rare occurrence w/ Felicia & Zabel. However, w/ Leilei's projectiles, this scenario is not-so-rare. =P

Didn't get to make that vid w/ Ray... sorry. I do still have the camera tho... will try one on my own pretty soon. Wanna discuss Leilei's movement options.
Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#15 09 November 2011 - 01:50 PM

snuggleguns
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If it only applies to Felicia I think it has more to do with whatever makes it so she can air block grounded normals at certain heights. Have you tried it with the rest of the cast yet, someone with normal jump/air properties. Cause one of the setups I do is knocking people out of the air when they try to jump to avoid the high low unblockable caused by hp projectile. I haven't seen that not work as far as I can remember.

Leilei's movement options? She has great aerial mobility but poor grounded approach, hard to rely on her invisible dash. Maybe I'm just not used to it, but I have a hard time using it on the offensive/at all unless I'm fighting someone completely stoic who's just gonna get command grabbed. Ive seen people go like lk lk for renda and dash during hitstun to continue pressure, but the longer you put someone into blockstun the longer they have to push you out or GC you. Grounded back dash is nice tho, and pendulums are fun.

Whats best for iad pressure? Is it lp? HK works but startup seems slow for the job. lp can hit most(all?) crouching and continue to chain knockdown/TRH

#16 09 November 2011 - 09:23 PM

GWONAM
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If it only applies to Felicia I think it has more to do with whatever makes it so she can air block grounded normals at certain heights. Have you tried it with the rest of the cast yet, someone with normal jump/air properties. Cause one of the setups I do is knocking people out of the air when they try to jump to avoid the high low unblockable caused by hp projectile. I haven't seen that not work as far as I can remember.


What normal do you use to knock them out of the air? cr.HK if timed correctly?

#17 10 November 2011 - 02:31 AM

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I like :f: HP a lot cause canceled into standing roundhouse makes it safer on block if you guessed wrong. Spacing dependent tho, if I wiff :f: H I'm left wide open, but then I'll just TRH if I have meter soo idk, but crouching roundhouse into TRH would be more optimal damage wise in that situation. Harder for me to adapt and pull that out off hand so I just :f: HP for a reset. Or crouching MP if I can get people to land on it.

Oh and I just did some testing vs Sasquatch and wasn't able to replicate was kyle was talking about.

#18 10 November 2011 - 04:08 AM

Kyle
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From my understanding, this work for Felicia & zabel only. But, leilei's projectiles make it much easier to set up.
Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#19 11 November 2011 - 09:52 PM

Kyle
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From Ego leiLei, translated AWJ @SRK post#3156

HP Throw: Not used much. Compared to 6MP, 6HP looks like an anti-air but actually doesn't work at all. If the opponent avoids the throw by jumping straight up, the 6HP will miss and Lei-Lei will be wide open for a damaging combo. Never use this when the opponent is in the corner (obviously, as the 6HP's hitbox will be right outside the play area--ed.)

The advantage of 6HP is that it can knock down people who try to jump away. If your opponent likes to hold up-back ("ireppa"), going for a walk-in throw with 6HP is fairly effective. The active frames last longer than 6MP so you can even use it on opponents waking up. However, since it comes out slowly it's weak against "abare". Another disadvantage is you can't chain into a low attack.

MK Throw: [The actual throw is] identical to the P version. You'd think not to use this, but it has its strengths. More than anything, it's strong against jumps and its active frames last a long time. It's like a longer-lasting 6MP. Disadvantages compared to 6MP are that it comes out slowly, lacks horizontal reach, and can't be chained into crouch MK. Its uses are as a meaty attack, and for a walk-in throw in the corner. In particular, when you walk in from a fair distance away this will often knock down the opponent's jump (although it often won't) If the opponent blocks, chain into HK->Tenraiha.

HK Throw: Another move that it's hard to find a use for, but you can take advantage of the HK's reach by using it from out of range (I guess he means a range where Lei-Lei gets the throw only if the opponent does something that moves their throwable hitbox forward?) Can't chain into anything, so the only followup is Tenraiha. Many opponents won't expect a Tenraiha after they block your HK, so a late cancel can be an effective surprise attack.
Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#20 29 November 2011 - 06:24 PM

GWONAM
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One thing I've noticed after watching Japanese LL footage is that they'll use Chireitou against Jedah more than other matchups. Why is this? More likely to hit him out of his airdash?

Also, what causes TRH balls to sometimes knock the opponent down in the corner, even when they're blocking? I should get the hitboxes mod running to try to see what's happening.

#21 30 November 2011 - 04:05 PM

snuggleguns
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I would guess they like it against him because he's one of those characters who relies on his aerial game and spacing. The swords keep him from air dashing or throwing out the buzzsaw, its a really good move/zoning tool for keeping someone out.

Some notes on the QBee matchup.. Bee will crouch under standing roundhouse so its not as good to cancel into anymore. Also don't try to use c.mp or anything other than jab to hit her out of an iad. Meaty anti air If you land a knockdown and predict a jumpback on wake up, this is what skankingarbage talks about how bee players like to jump immediately regardless and leilei has a couple options to take advantage of this. I was playing shoultzula and he mentioned pendulums and trh overhead mixups are good against bee and generally if you have meter use it on TRH. (still loose like 50-0 vs him but I finally feel like I'm not overwhelmed by qbee mixup) Swords super would probably work well against her as well if you ever have space to use it :v:

#22 01 March 2012 - 11:20 AM

GWONAM
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What causes Lei Lei to sometimes automatically cancel her pendulum when used from the corner after a super? It seems to have something to do with the blades traveling during Chireitou, though I'm not sure what causes it during TRH.

Also, who do you guys feel are her worst matchups? Naturally, Sas is nasty for just about anyone, but Bish is a pain too for her. He can take advantage of her not being able to deal with pressure directly in her face and his normals mostly seem superior to hers.

#23 04 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

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She drops out of pendulum after hitting a wall, use lp when in the corner the other two will swing you back. Unless your talking about something else.

Worst match-ups are the high tiers. I don't agree with bish being particularly bad fight fer her. She can trip up his approach and pressure just as hard. He's got better reach and can anti air everything she does but it still doesn't seem like a 3-7 matchup like some charts say, more like a 4-6.

#24 17 March 2012 - 11:51 PM

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Hmm, I'll just have to learn the matchup better in that case.

And yeah, that was the problem. She'd swing back and dismount upon hitting the wall. I'll remember to use L.Pendulum from now on.

#25 29 March 2012 - 01:34 AM

GWONAM
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Sorry for the double-post, but I thought this called for a bump.

In practice, how reliable is using Pendulum as an anti-tech hit? The Pendulum helps you keep your momentum/pressure up. I haven't done it yet; I need to practice it more (requires some good reactions, I'd imagine).

You can see it here:

http://www.youtube.c...zbPZv24#t=0m24s

#26 29 March 2012 - 01:42 PM

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You can see for yourself the result in that vid. He swings forward, promptly gets anti-aired, and eats a reset/mixup which could have landed sako a knockdown or infinite. He wasn't doing it to keep momentum but to escape pressure, maybe double cancel would have been better or immediate cancel and try to land first since sako's first reaction was to jump idk. Missile would have beaten it flat out if it was already charged. He does make a lot of other really good defensive moves/reads in that match, completely stopping sako from getting anything started. Checkout the jump back reaction to BBH neutral jump mixup at 19 seconds. Dash under ES gong(command throw OS?) at 40.

http://www.youtube.c...zbPZv24#t=0m19s
http://www.youtube.c...zbPZv24#t=0m40s

Edited by snuggleguns, 29 March 2012 - 01:45 PM.


#27 04 April 2012 - 02:03 AM

Ewickify
Ewickify

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Does anybody know what happens in this video at 1:07

http://youtu.be/2Qc5QeanRXw

#28 05 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

Kyle
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There's actually a small gap in that super. The blades come out in sets of 3. some characters can walk/dash between the sets. Good reference video. thx for the link.
Vampire Arcadia @Cincinnati, Ohio

#29 05 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

snuggleguns
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Some mad hitbox awareness.

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#30 07 April 2012 - 09:35 PM

GWONAM
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Snuggleguns, your images broke.

EDIT: Actually, that's odd. The Chireitou images are broken on Mizuumi as well.

Also, good point on that Pendulum. Maybe a double-cancel would work? That way, you're out of reach of being AA'd by ground normals.

Edited by GWONAM, 07 April 2012 - 10:12 PM.





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