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[CSE] Ragna vs Rachel


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#1 30 December 2011 - 08:42 PM

KayEff
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Discuss the Ragna vs. Rachel matchup here.

#2 31 March 2012 - 12:08 AM

VR-Raiden
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Block Punishes vs Rachel:

Guaranteed:

2C
- dash FC 2C
- CH DS crouch hit
- BK > dash 5B crouch hit

Anyone let me know if something isn't true or feel free to add anything I miss.

(Yeah this one is real insightful)

Edited by VR-Raiden, 02 April 2012 - 12:29 AM.

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Sol/Ken/Hyde

#3 31 March 2012 - 12:26 AM

LuminAbyss
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Deadspike is a brutal punish as well, include that.
[12:16:02 AM] Toasty: monkey see, monkey doo doo on proto

#4 01 April 2012 - 07:17 PM

Fistmaster049
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Deadspike is a brutal punish as well, include that.


Amen to that

Still waiting on CP EU version extra colours :/

BB: :RG: (Still the Shitlord God) :BU: (Still 2B da god)  :HA: (Still ignored)  :KA: (Still learning to charge..and failing)

Persona: :ballYU: (Katana Jesus) :ballLB: (Better Makoto) :ballSHO: (Red headed Kirito) Adachi (The man with the best throw in a FG ever)

Xrd:  Sin (Move over Sol, Flag normals coming through )  :SOL: (Let it out tho)    :KYX:(Ciels tho)   :RAM: (Swords tho)

GG classic: :KY: (Thrusting the vapours)  :OS: (Blazing guns)  :SO: (The grandest of vipers) 

Under night: Hyde (lol CRAVER! )  Orie (Lol Backflips) Gordeau (lol GRIM REAPAH) Nanase (lol Wind DP)

                                                                                                                                          

Twitter :DS:


#5 14 April 2012 - 11:10 PM

Fistmaster049
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fun fact, did you know that 3C kills the frog?
....I dunno I thought it was interesting, nothing else has been posted here in a while lol

Still waiting on CP EU version extra colours :/

BB: :RG: (Still the Shitlord God) :BU: (Still 2B da god)  :HA: (Still ignored)  :KA: (Still learning to charge..and failing)

Persona: :ballYU: (Katana Jesus) :ballLB: (Better Makoto) :ballSHO: (Red headed Kirito) Adachi (The man with the best throw in a FG ever)

Xrd:  Sin (Move over Sol, Flag normals coming through )  :SOL: (Let it out tho)    :KYX:(Ciels tho)   :RAM: (Swords tho)

GG classic: :KY: (Thrusting the vapours)  :OS: (Blazing guns)  :SO: (The grandest of vipers) 

Under night: Hyde (lol CRAVER! )  Orie (Lol Backflips) Gordeau (lol GRIM REAPAH) Nanase (lol Wind DP)

                                                                                                                                          

Twitter :DS:


#6 15 April 2012 - 05:32 PM

-Kid
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fun fact, did you know that 3C kills the frog?
....I dunno I thought it was interesting, nothing else has been posted here in a while lol


It's also jump-cancellable, making it a good option for getting rid of george.
I think George has like 300Hp.

Lolwut? Do you even Jin?

:RG: @TheKid_BB  :HZ:

 


#7 15 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

Fistmaster049
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It's also jump-cancellable, making it a good option for getting rid of george.
I think George has like 300Hp.


I know, I mean before I was using DS and 2D, leaves you far to open
and yeah your right about his HP

Still waiting on CP EU version extra colours :/

BB: :RG: (Still the Shitlord God) :BU: (Still 2B da god)  :HA: (Still ignored)  :KA: (Still learning to charge..and failing)

Persona: :ballYU: (Katana Jesus) :ballLB: (Better Makoto) :ballSHO: (Red headed Kirito) Adachi (The man with the best throw in a FG ever)

Xrd:  Sin (Move over Sol, Flag normals coming through )  :SOL: (Let it out tho)    :KYX:(Ciels tho)   :RAM: (Swords tho)

GG classic: :KY: (Thrusting the vapours)  :OS: (Blazing guns)  :SO: (The grandest of vipers) 

Under night: Hyde (lol CRAVER! )  Orie (Lol Backflips) Gordeau (lol GRIM REAPAH) Nanase (lol Wind DP)

                                                                                                                                          

Twitter :DS:


#8 17 May 2012 - 10:53 PM

-Kid
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Hmm..not much here. I guess i'll post my experience and what i know.

Being Ragna players, obviously we'd want to be in the opponent's face 24/7. Rachel makes this difficult with her zoning tools. You'd want to first start the match by gaining momentum before she does. It's imperative that you keep rachel on her toes, because once she gains momentum, you'll find yourself in the corner, eating her vortex and her instant overheads.

It's this reason why you should rush rachel down when you get the opportunity to. It's not worth dropping pressure to try to bait her cat chair. You'll find that most rachel's are actually scared of it back-firing, since it's an easy fatal for Ragna. Getting in is the problem. In this case it is down to player specifics. If you know your opponent uses 2C a lot, then by all means try to bait it. Don't get too happy trying to bait 2C though, you don't want to lose your pressure and momentum.

Rachel has REALLY good ground game, and covers ground space really well..where Ragna is best. Her A lobelia + Wind beats ALL of ragna's approaches and jump-ins, making it even more difficult to get in.

If Rachel does any other Lobelia other than the A version, you can run underneath it and fatal her. (If you don't know what the different lobelia's look like, go to training mode).
The course of the match gets even more difficult when she has the pumpkin out, as this + Wind is an easy approach for her. Once she does this, you will be set on the defensive, trying to guess when she will do an instant overhead or 2B. Wrong guesses lead to corner carry, then vortex, then rape.

DO NOT (or should i say avoid) using a counter assult when you are blocking george. Quite a lot of rachel's use george to bait counter assults. When george is out, take full advantage of 3C and it's Jump cancellable properties.

Be smart about how you approach. Sometimes all it takes is for you to run all the way to her, past george, past the poles.

Main idea of the match-up is to gain momentum first, stay offensive and try not to be put on the defensive too much. Once you have Rachel in the corner, try to go for good, unpredictable oki. You don't want her to escape.

Save your heat for mix up and pressure. Don't use it for CS, unless you are going to kill!

Lolwut? Do you even Jin?

:RG: @TheKid_BB  :HZ:

 


#9 19 May 2012 - 01:16 AM

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I dont think its a good idea to 3C george,you can risk a lot

#10 19 May 2012 - 01:22 AM

Fluck
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George has 700 health, not 300. That's why you need to use 3C on him :V
<Donavan> eh he looks the same to me
<Donavan> other than he got changes

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#11 19 May 2012 - 01:23 PM

Arya
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A few things to add on to -Kid:

1) 5C can now kill George, so if you are ever in the position Ragna | George | Rachel and are within 5C range of Rachel, throw it out. You don't want to use it if you are out of 5C range because more likely than not she'll hit you with a projectile.
2) Do not let her summon pumpkin for free. If she tries to do it in the air, jump DP counter hit her (which nets you a pretty nice combo since you can follow it up on the ground.) If she tries to do it on the ground, dash 5C/Hell's Fang her.
3) If she uses lighting on active lobelias and you don't block it's pretty much a free approach.
4) Carnage Scissors is ass.

Edit: Derp, this is my girlfriend's account. -MashThat5A

#12 19 May 2012 - 03:10 PM

LuminAbyss
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5C is still jump cancelable if it hits George, right? I usually use 3C because it is.

Also Imma cut you nigga.
[12:16:02 AM] Toasty: monkey see, monkey doo doo on proto

#13 21 May 2012 - 04:44 AM

KayEff
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i think an attack hitting george is considered blocked, so i don't think 5C can be jump cancelled from it. may be wrong though, but i know this is the case for hitting nirvana with 5C.

3C's still the best solution regardless

#14 22 May 2012 - 01:02 PM

Fluck
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I ran some tests and yes, you cannot jump cancel 5C when you hit George.

Don't you think 5C will come in handy at times though, KF? Basically when it's possible to nail both Rachel and George since 5C has a much better horizontal range. I'm pretty sure 3C would lose at further spacings since Rachel can safely punish you with a projectile/pumpkin etc. since she's not blocking.
<Donavan> eh he looks the same to me
<Donavan> other than he got changes

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