Jin vs Noel Pic.jpg 94.63KB
901 downloads The Neutral GameLong Range: Your Tools vs Her ToolsJin’s Tools: Ice Blades (A/B/C/D) (In the air or on the ground), Moonsong Distortion (632146.D - Primer Breaker) and Ice Fang Distortion (632146.C - Primer Breaker).
You can use all of these moves to make this match up easier for you since Jin has more options at this range than Noel. Try to zone Noel with Ice blades and confirm into a combo on CH or with an RC if you have the meter to spare. Noel can‘t do anything devastating to you at this range.
You WILL NOT zone Noel with Moonsong or Ice Fang, these are moves used to punish Noel on doing risky things at long range (EX: Punish Optic Barrel full screen by using Ice Fang). Noel’s Tools: Optic Barrel and Fenrir Distortion (Start up Primer Breaker)
Noel is a Mid/Close range character and doesn’t have any long range options besides Optic Barrel. This is the main reason why Noel does not want to fight Jin at long range because he is at the advantage in this position. Jumping Fenrir is a bad ranged tool because it can be easily telegraphed when she is going to do it, so easy, you can bait it and punish her for throwing it out. Optic Barrel knocks down on hit and she'll RTSD when that happens, so be careful out there. Medium Range: Your Tools vs Her ToolsJin’s Tools: J.C, 5D, 2D (Primer Breaker) 623.A/B/D (Primer Breaker)
Use all of these tools because this is the time when Noel is doing whatever she can to get in on you so she can play her game.
J.C stuffs a lot of Noel’s approaches especially in the air. Just remember that it is not as good as it was in CS2 but it is still effective. You want to use this move at max range if possible since Noel beats you in the air if she’s close. You can confirm into combos at J.C’s range, just remember [CH] J.C > 2D doesn’t work unless you’ve hit the character with J.C as low as possible so do not rely on it.
5D is a decent tool to use to stop her approach and at max range can punish her drives, just remember that recovery for it is bad so choose when to use it wisely. It's worth noting that Noel can low profile under it with 3C and confirm into a nasty combo so use it with caution.
2D is your best tool at this range. It may be slower, but it hits higher and it takes a primer now. Since Noel will have a more cautious approach at this range unless you give her an opening she will be on the defensive end. This will allow you to get a few of her primers off her making her become a little more risky if she’s sitting on one primer, which works in your favor because you can punish her if she’s too risky.
623.A/B/D all break primers and are the best options for DP’s against Noel. It stuffs her aerial approach and makes her think twice about jumping in the air. Since they break primers, they are really good to use to add that pressure on Noel but as it goes for every DP, if you get baited, you will get hurt, especially dealing with Noel so be very wise about your DP usage. Also do not forget that she can still crouch under your A/B dp’s and can punish the follow up of your D dp with her 3C. Noel’s Tools: 5D, 2D, 6A, 3C (Primer Breaker)
5D, 2D and 6A can stuff your approach on Noel.
It becomes an issue when you approach her from the air and she hit’s you with [CH] 6A, 66, 6C *Stuff* that leads into 3-4K depending on where you are on the screen.
5D can be used mid-range to punish things such as ice blades, 5C, and even 5D through it (depending on how good the Noel player’s timing is, she can drive through it or it will trade, which still puts you at the disadvantage). So be very careful when using this.
Noel’s 2D is still a scary move to deal with, it can go over ice blades and cross you up. Don't let her disrespect you during your pressure with this (more on that below).
Noel's 3C has good range on it as well and she can get a decent combo off of it on clean hit and even more if it's a [CH]. This move low profiles under a lot of Jin's shit (2A, 5B, 5C, 5D, DP D(2), etc). It's a risky move for her to use since it's punishable on block but this is also one of her scarier moves because it low profiles under way too many of Jin's normals. She'll most like only use this if she has the meter to RC. It takes a while for her 3C to get to the low profiling part so no good Noel is going to just throw this out, still it's a move with a high risk and a high reward.
You have to remember that even though you’re mid-range, Noel players can still do things to you that can turn it around in their favor. Be careful when playing here because you are keeping Noel outside of your bubble and she’s trying everything she can to burst it.Close Quarters: Your Tools vs Her ToolsJin’s Tools: 6A, 5B, 623C (Primer Breaker), and Yukikaze
These moves are all used to pressure and assist with mixing up Noel at this range but the downside to this is that you do not have the advantage here once she is on the offensive.
5B is great against Noel because it will beat some of her drives and keep her locked down. It keeps her on the defensive and allows you to think of something else if she blocks it. Now, if she IB’s the second hit, you can be punished with 2a so don’t overuse it. However, you can use that to your advantage and go for frame traps (more on that later).
6A is an OK tool since it is an overhead. I would be very careful using this because it’s risk/reward factor comes down to being 50/50. To raise that number in your favor, you do not want to perform this move w/o 50 heat since the chances of you landing a raw [CH] 6A to follow up on Noel is pretty slim. It’s a tool, not a great one but still useful.
623C is a good reversal when you’ve blocked Noel’s drives. Her drives are slower so it can be easy to view exactly when to use this DP when you have begun blocking her drive string. Once again, it’s a DP and DP’s can be punished so be very cautious when you use this.
Yukikaze is now a legit reversal now that it catches lows, though it’s window of active frames are not that long. You can still use this when you’re blocking Noel’s drive strings but do not rely on it because there is a good chance you can be grabbed out of it. Use this sparingly.Noel’s Tools: 2D(Primer Breaker)/4D /6A/2A/5A/2C/3C (Primer Breaker)/6C (2nd hit Primer Breaker)/J.4D (Primer Breaker)
4D is used as a reversal, not the best one but it work and will cause you a lot of pain especially since 4D is a FATAL and following that up into a combo that leads into Spring Raid (which send the opponent vertical instead of flying away horizontally now) can still be followed up into a midscreen combo that can do up to 4K+
6A is a good AA tool that can keep Jin out or keep him from jumping out of a corner since it has upper body invulnerability and can lead to combos that does decent damage.
J.4D is a mix up move, it will be used against you so be prepared to block on the other side, also be wary that this move can also break primers so be aware of the amount of primers you have when she goes for this.
2A can beat our J.C like Ragna’s 2A can, and that can lead into the situation I stated before ([CH] 2A, 66, 6C *stuff* into 3K+ corner = you're in Noel pressure on wake-up)
5A is used to stagger pressure into her many frame traps along with 2C and 6C, all of these moves can be used to stagger you during pressure so Noel can fish for an opening to be able to do what Noel does best.
2D can still cross over and lead to damage but it is punishable especially when blocked. This is one of the few drives you will see that will allow you to punish her unless she follows up with a 4D, so make sure you attack when the time presents itself and make it count.OffenseJin's Offensive Strategy:
J.C, 5C, 2D and Ice Blades are your strongest tools in this match up. You want to keep Noel at bay with your midrange game and put her into the corner where you can dominate the match. There you can apply pressure on her wake up and you just need to watch out for a few drives which you can bait and punish (2D/4D for the most part, be wary of Fenrir reversal if Noel get’s desperate). Pressure Noel with 5B on her wake up if she does not have 50+ heat because Jin’s 5B will beat out most of Noel’s options on wake up if she doesn’t have the heat to escape. Look out for her Counter assault, if you are apply the pressure well against her she will use this and place her on the offensive end of the match. One think to look for is to see if Noel does any of her primer breaking moves as an ender to her combos; doing this puts her in a long recovery state giving you the opportunity to counter attack. The chances that Noel will do this w/o heat are slim but it does happen so look out for it and punish properly.
Make sure to use frame traps during pressure to stop her from even trying to mash 5A or Drives. Common frame traps include 2A > 5C, 2B > delayed 5C, 5B > 2C, and the riskier ones being 5B > 6C and 5C > 6C. She can mash 5A and stop your pressure during your 5B > 6A gatling so don't let her disrespect you like that more than once, you should know how to deal with it. Noel's Offensive Strategy:
She wants to be as close to you as possible so at the start of the match she will be passive and wait on the moment to be aggressive. When Noel is on the offensive, she is in control of the pace of the fight. Once she get’s in, she will do whatever it takes; staggers into frame traps, DP baits, ect. This is where you have to learn where the gaps are in Noel’s pressure and if they are frame traps or not. Best option you have are to IB her string enders and punish off of that if you are not comfortable with the Noel Match up or cannot think of anything else if you find yourself in that position. Remember that 2D can cross you up if you're crouching + blocking when she's right next to you. j.4D is also used as a cross-up from time to time.DefenseJin's Defensive Strategy:
-A good Defense is a strong Offense-
You want to keep Noel out with Jin’s spacing game. It man not have been as strong as it was in CSII, but Jin still can apply his spacing game, especially against Noel. Zoning and Spacing Noel at Long/Mid range keeps you in control of the pace in this fight and forces the Noel player to take risks that you can capitalize on. If Noel get’s in, it’s all about having your defenses up and ready for Noel’s pressure tools. Hopefully you have heat to use a 623D or another viable reversal to get out, or counter assault to relieve yourself of Noel Pressure.Noel's Defensive Strategy:
Noel will do 1 of 5 things:
5A, 2D, 4D, Counter Assault or Block; these are the options Noel has when she is defending. Noel’s 2D and 4D drives can be baited out or are visibly telegraphed moves since all her drives are slower then they were in CSII. Once you see them and have blocked them, you can punish with the proper move you see fit when you’ve revealed the gap in her combos.
If she does 5A and 2D during your close range pressure then you can stuff it next time with 2C/5C frame traps and with 5B > 5B pressure reset. If she's mashing 2D during your long range pressure (5C > 6B/2D) then you can frame trap her next time with 5C > 6C. 4D will shit on your jump-ins so be careful when approaching her. Gimmicks and Resets and Tips
Noel doesn’t really have many gimmicks on the exception of Cross Up drives so be sure to look out for those, block and punish her for it. As stated before, her cross-up drives include 2D when you're crouching and right next to her and j.4D. Noel's main focus is to pressure you with staggers, frame trapping you, then hitting you with a painful combo off of a confirm. Noel is literally a walking frame trap so you have to be smart when she is pressuring you; I will list a few staggers/frame traps that can assist you to help out in the clutch:
5A > 2B
2B > 2C
2C > 5C
5C > 236A
2C > 236A
2C > 2A
2C > 5A [if up close]
5A > 5A
2B > 2A [unsafe frame trap since 2B is even on block can be poked out of.]
WATCH OUT FOR 2C and 5C
d.6C > d.5B [Possibly]
5A > 5A > 2B > 2C string [5A is -1, but 5A > 2B is like a 2 frame gap]
You can IB 2C, but if you IB the first attack, the second hit becomes a frame trap, IB the second hit of 2C so you may properly punish and be wary of 5C follow up.
Another important change they made to the drives besides the fact that they are slower is that most of their cancel windows got shrunk to almost nothing, so Noel can't do stuff like a delayed d.5A anymore if you try to catch her reloading or between drives. Match Summary
This match up is pretty similar to what it was last game; I’d say it’s 5.5 - 4.5 in Jin’s favor. As Jin you want to keep the fight to your pace and reap good rewards on Noel’s bad decisions, but in that though, Noel is going to do the exact same thing to you. Keep Noel in mid-range and keep her there, and when you have her in the corner, make her think twice about doing anything.
You will be playing Footsies against Noel and she will be doing everything she can to rush you down so the match can run at a pace where she is in control. Do whatever you can so that this does not happen because once Noel is in, she is hard to get her out.
If the Noel player is smart, she will use 6A and 4D to stop your aerial approach but those are few options you have to look out for when making this approach. You don’t have to be in that deep to where 4D hits you to get something going, but you do have to get deep to apply pressure on Noel. 4D is pretty easy to see but once you’ve committed to the attack, and that move is coming out, prepare to receive 4K.
In the end, your safest approach to this match-up is to zone Noel until you have a good confirm (More often a CH) and work off of that. Then apply the pressure against Noel so that she is forced to block, but remember that once she goes on the offensive in close range combat, you are not at the disadvantage. Pick your points wisely and make every hit count against Noel.
When you get in and start to pressure, pay attention to Noel and see is she's mashing. If she's mashing then you frame trap, if she's not then continue to pressure.
Edited by Moy_X7, 09 January 2012 - 12:01 PM.