Their game plan:
Char specific details:
- Her range is far superior to ours. Playing footsies with her is a bad idea.
Edited by Kiba, 22 February 2012 - 11:49 PM.
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Edited by Kiba, 22 February 2012 - 11:49 PM.
Edited by Surf, 20 February 2012 - 12:12 AM.
I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday
Most of the time when I use wj66d, the Mu player answers with a jump j2C who is quite good to beat a lot of high air attempt it seems. I tried to bait D7C that too but you know . . . Lasers.
The way you move around pretty much sounds like the approach that I use. If you're consistently getting hit by j.2C and j.C, using w66D > j.D > 7C is nice to try and bait things, but perhaps you could opt to just jump in a block for example, use w66D and barrier block, rather than going for the offensive. I'm not saying you do this all the time though. Just to add a little more variety to your game.
Also if Mu is on the ground it might be better off trying to approach her from the ground. You have w5B if the players tries to attack you, otherwise they would have to barrier block and eat your mixup.
If Mu has used the lasers I'd do one of two things. If I'm close to her then I'll try to use a (command) grab so I can make the lasers pass through me. You could also try to hit her with a DD (this is a little more specific unless you do it as she's inputting the command), but try not to hit her with anything else. I'm pretty much a hypocrite when I say this because I'm really stubborn, but if you hit her with anything else, 9 times out of 10 the laser is gonna come back and belt you in the face, and on CH it has quite a bit of hitstun so you're almost giving Mu a full combo. It's worse if you get hit by the laser in the air because she gets a better combo.
The 2nd option would be to worry less about Mu and focus more on the lasers. Use movements which have a lot of cover (w66D for example) in order to avoid the lasers. If you stay in one position you make it easy for Mu to get to you and again if you get hit by the laser then you're giving Mu a combo. If there's a lot of steins it may be difficult for you to determine the direction it'll move in so it may be better for you to block unfortunately, but jumping around in wolf usually helps out alot.
What sort of pressure strings are you using? I think things like 2A > 5D > Command grab, jump cancellable normal > j.D > 3C > j.A/5A/Command grab. 236B wolf cancels and j.C > 214B > wolf cancel are mash fodder, especially j.C > 214B > wolf cancel, the gap is too big. If you want more information on the type of pressure that you can use look at the Valkenhayn Strategy Guide. Also how are you using j.C > RC > j.C? Are you using it on someone's wakeup? Are you knocking someone down, not moving waiting for them to tech, and then trying to do j.C > RC > j.C? A real good place to use it is 2A > j.C > RC > j.C.
If Mu does get you blocking, I think you just need to get used to her pressure a little more, because honestly Mu doesn't have anything to make you really scared. It actually came to a point where if I block I just instant block and barrier if I need to so I can get out easily. The only time where Mu is a little more scary is when she knocks you down in the corner with steins and then explodes them on your wakeup. You lose primers and you have to take the next mixup (for some reason I find blocking 6B after that difficult).
In neutral what I do usually do depends on what the opponent is doing. If they're doing nothing, I usually find something like j.D > 5C > j.D > j.B successful. Sometimes I try to catch her with 5C but that's usually not a good idea because her 5C is real good in neutral and may trade or even beat your 5C.
I figured this would be the case. You're gonna have to try just getting in and blocking with wj66D or resort to a different manuvere. It sounds like the player is more or less reacting to how you're getting in. I play Mu a helluva lot of the time so perhaps my matches can shed a little more light?
https://www.youtube....h?v=8q1OiNzWRns - For more matches please visit the CSE Valk video thread.
That's what I do to surprise my opponent. I go with w5A if the opponent is on the ground and w5B when he's in the air. Mu's 5C is however the main answer I stumble upon. And considering the lasers around, baiting isn't an option. I was considering lately simply running in wolf mode then jump>jD>Barrier block. If the opponent used 5C, it will whiff allowing me to punish with a falling jC. Do you think it might be worth trying or it's too risky ?
Out of the pressure strings you mentionned, the ones I use are 236B wolf cancel and j214B wolf cancel. However, I would like to point out that I actually use them against mashers or people who consider that mashing is more than enough against Valk's pressure. I usually do afterwards 7DD>jB or jC or 4D>wj236A. Seems quite good so far against DPs and 5A mash but the risk is that the opponent got a way to jump out of pressure. Sadly, that Mu player seems to know the matchup and that blockstring quite well and that's what happens. I used 7DD>Throw once and it worked but afterwards, he mixed in some air DP after that or simply tech the throw.
I also did read the strategy guide countless times which, to be honest, helped me tremendously. Thanks for putting so much work on it because it helped me much more than any videos on youtube or nicovideo. Still, I think I'll simply read it again and make sure this time to correctly memorize all the blockstrings this time rather than only selecting a few of them.
The main reason why I lose is simply because 90% of the time I try to get in, I end up eating a combo because of the lasers.
I do share the same opinion for neutral but waiting for the right opportunity result in the Mu player having more time to set lasers. Seems that he prefers to stay in the air and get steins from there. Running forward with w5B wasn't really successful. I never thought however of downright dashing through the forest of lasers right away. Might actually work if I do it after I see the first stein being set. If it doesn't work, well . . . Valkenhayn will probably be as helpless as the heroine of a hentai tentacle.
As for 5C, I like to use it in some matchups but I just don't like the idea of using it at all here.
I actually did watch a lot of Valk vs Mu matches. To be more accurate, I watched Hima's, Uma no Hone's, Nao's, Shuu's and also yours. About the match with Ixisnaugus, I did use some of the stuff you did and they almost all got beaten by 5A, 6A or the DP. I think I'll simply put more work into better ways to bait this kind of situation.
Another thing I would like to point out however is the fact that I never saw the Mu player I usually fight against do mistakes like poorly spaced 5Cs, mashing when he shouldn't and other things like that. Perhaps Ixisnaugus did them because of the lag ? Still looks like a pretty good player though.
Anyway, I will practice what you said and will try it next time I have the opportunity to. I'll give a proper feedback at this point in order to report what worked and what wasn't successful.
Edited by bakahyl, 14 October 2013 - 10:26 PM.
Thank you very much for the tips. I'll definetely keep it in mind next time we play.
There is something I would like to know though. Could you please talk more about you think of Valkenhayn as a Mu player ?
Like which moves you watch out for or what you consider to be the mistakes a Valk player can do against Mu ?
Edited by bakahyl, 15 October 2013 - 12:33 AM.
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