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Slayer vs. Potemkin


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#1 01 March 2008 - 09:31 PM

EasyModeNub
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I hate this match, and rarely win it. I know that I'm not the only one that hates fighting Pot, and I'd like to know how to pull this fight out of my ass. So somebody with some experience please inform me and others. *looks at Boss*


first-post hijack with combos

2S (CH) -> IAD H->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->j.2K->j.D

2S (non CH), 5P-> j.K->j.2K->j.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->j.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.D

6P (CH) -> IAD j.H->5H->IAD j.K-j.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.2K->j.D (maybe one more relaunch... I can't remember off the top of my head)

2H (CH) -> 5H->IAD j.K-j.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.2K->dj.D

j.H (CH), CH DOT, CH It's Late (corner), CH It's Late (from under pressure, corner. If not, IAD H), CH Undertow, CH 6H (air hit) -> 5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->j.K->5H->IAD j.D

That covers like, all the tensionless, CH Launches...

2D RC (Close range) -> 5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->j.K->5H->IAD j.D (I've got this to work anywhere on the screen.)

2D RC (Long range) -> 5H->IAD j.K-j.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.2K->dj.D

2K->2H -> (5K->K Mappa)x2-3->5K->j.S (2)->j.K->j.S (3) ->j.2K->j.D

5D -> j.Dx3->Delay j.H->j.K->j.D->j.2K->j.K->dj.H->dj.2K->j.D->j.2K->j.D

2K->2H->BBU -> 5H->sj.AD D->j.2K->j.K->5H->j.H->j.K->dj.H->dj.2K->dj.D

just learn to not suck and you'll be fine

true story, the key to not sucking is to not suck


#2 03 March 2008 - 01:54 AM

EasyModeNub
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I guess I'm the only person who has trouble with Pot. Oh well...

just learn to not suck and you'll be fine

true story, the key to not sucking is to not suck


#3 03 March 2008 - 04:04 AM

ajinkris
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Pot is definitely one of our worst matchups. While Slayer has trouble against zoning characters, he has trouble with characters that beat him in point blank fights as well. Potemkin can basically punish virtually all of Slayer's move with a pot buster. I'm not qualified to tell you how to beat Pot (because my experience is limited, but I know there's a lot to the fight...like dead angling the mirror, backdashing through slideheads, etc.), but you are definitely not alone in your problems. Just give it some time, these forums are relatively new.

ADDED - Original post by Villainous from the matchup forums:

5K is your friend. I don't think 6K is completely useless in this fight since it's throw invincible during part of it, you just can't use it as a non first hit mix up predictably, or on wake up. 2D owns pot's backdash for free since it has so many active frames. Let 2D hit late and combo with 2P 5P air combo for some good punishment. 2H is good as stated before, or basically anything that keeps him far away from you. I wouldn't whore 2H though because it can get beaten by hammerfall.

6K vs. Hammerfall is actually not that bad. You can hit him, land, recover, and still block the attack in time to punish.

Of course not using other normals won't win you the match either, you just have to sneak your mix ups in randomly when they won't be expecting it and have a counter for it ready at hand.

But really I've never fought a pot as good as Raekwon's so I imagine you know just as well as I do, all I know is from theory fighting and battling mediocre pots.

Oh and one other thing....DEAD ON TIME WHEN YOU SEE SLIDE HEAD ATTEMPTS FROM MID SCREEN! FREE COUNTER! Or any other slide head setup that's not really really meaty like 6H.

Oh also, It's Late out of D-Step is throw invincible. It's gotta have some sorta use in this fight.

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#4 03 March 2008 - 04:07 AM

rtl42
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I guess I'm the only person who has trouble with Pot. Oh well...

sue me, there isn't a pot player in the area ;o

#5 03 March 2008 - 04:35 AM

EasyModeNub
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sue me, there isn't a pot player in the area ;o


lol, really? He seems like one that is everywhere.

I realize that these forums are new, and I guess I got a little hasty. Thanks for any input from anybody though. Anyways, I made a list of things that pot can buster you for on block. Feel free to correct me on any of these.

1. Mappa (also on hit)
2. BBU
3. Close 2H
4. Close 2D
5. Close 2S (if you don't cancel it)
6. PB
7. Crosswise Heel
8. j.H (I think you have to land deep though...)
9. 6P

That's all I could think of off the top of my head, but ya... hate that shit.

It seems like pokes are really limited for Slayer in this match. 5K, c.S>f.S, 2K, spaced 2H... ya not too much else. lol At least all the basics are still available though.

On the up side, thanks to Pots HUGE hit box, he can be juggled for some retarded dmg. I remember Crimson showing me a combo off of 6K in the corner that did 2/3 life with only 25% tension... so ya. Make sure to learn those Pot combos for this match, it's worth it.

just learn to not suck and you'll be fine

true story, the key to not sucking is to not suck


#6 03 March 2008 - 04:43 AM

ajinkris
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lol, really? He seems like one that is everywhere.


I actually have three very good Pot players here (Mike Z, Ken I, Icetrap) and a few others that aren't quite up to par, but still hold their own. I generally lose to them, but don't really learn that much because the fight is so awkward all the time. I wish I could play them more but the only pot I consistently bash heads with is Ken I, and he's just a better player than me.
can I have the pineapple chocolate?
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#7 03 March 2008 - 04:50 AM

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I actually have three very good Pot players here (Mike Z, Ken I, Icetrap) and a few others that aren't quite up to par, but still hold their own. I generally lose to them, but don't really learn that much because the fight is so awkward all the time. I wish I could play them more but the only pot I consistently bash heads with is Ken I, and he's just a better player than me.


I have that same problem with Eddie... the only Eddie's I get to play against are Latif and on occasion Marn... so that doesn't teach me anything except how to take it like a bitch. lol

The fight really is akward though. The range that you have to fight potemkin at is the same range where he is at a solid advantage. On top of that, you wont win by going D, and getting aggressive usually hands him the match. One thing that seems to help me, is to be tricky with jump cancels. Do em late, do em fast, just don't get predictable.

just learn to not suck and you'll be fine

true story, the key to not sucking is to not suck


#8 03 March 2008 - 05:40 AM

Shazay
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Anyways, I made a list of things that pot can buster you for on block. Feel free to correct me on any of these.

1. Mappa (also on hit)


Not p mappa with correct spacing. I'm not sure about the others though, its been a while since I looked at frame data.

...and getting aggressive usually hands him the match.


The same could be said for Potemkin against Slayer.

#9 03 March 2008 - 06:55 AM

Villainous
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I'm really at a loss for a good strat in this fight. I got a bunch of matches vs. pot this weekend and after getting back dash bustered out of any mix up I tried, I just said fuck it and started mashing 5K from max range. If I got a knockdown I would do late j.H, if it gets blocked, pressure, if they backdash, you have time to punish that. But yeah.....5K is like....the only thing I'm not scared to do in this fight. I'd just try to punish hammerfall, punish whiffed busters, anti air him in the fuck if he jumps, and stay the hell away from him. What are some of those retarded pot combos? I need to learn them so I can kill him when i get those openings.
Wrap life in the brilliance of death to humble us all.

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#10 03 March 2008 - 07:54 AM

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I guess I'm the only person who has trouble with Pot. Oh well...



Only person to have trouble with pot? This is slayers counter character match up, it would be unusual if you weren't having trouble with it. EVERY slayer regardless of who they are has alot of problems with this match up, its only natural. I hate this match. Can't really give any advise that wouldn't be outdated =(
Just play with EXTREME caution, and spacing is everything in this match up.

#11 03 March 2008 - 06:39 PM

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Just throwing it out there, but would 6H be a good oki option? Might sound dumb but: It has 19 frames of start-up, and 6 frames of active, but Pot's backdash is only 20 frames of invul. Also, if spaced correctly, I'm almost sure it isn't punishable if he doesn't backdash. To boot, it's neutral on block (+0 SD). But of course, this is in theory -.-" and in theory he could just Hammerfall (although I really haven't seen that used on wake-up). I tend to use 2P in fights with Pot, but then again, I also tend to lose. =( Got 2nd place in the last tournament I was in due to the last guy I was going against being Pot. Punished in every way possible lawl. And Kairi is right; the recent and last few incarnations of PO have always been Slayer's worst match up.

#12 03 March 2008 - 11:47 PM

RoBoBOBR
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well meaty 6H aint bad. but it wont catch BD laaate 6H will catch BD. but is easily punishable with a lot of stuff
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#13 04 March 2008 - 12:44 AM

Villainous
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Late j.H has instant recovery on landing. Use it on wake up. Then when they backdash, do something meaty and punish the fuck out of him for backdashing.
Wrap life in the brilliance of death to humble us all.

:SL::BANG::HA:

#14 04 March 2008 - 02:10 PM

EasyModeNub
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The problem I find with using 6H in this match, is that even with it being neutral on block it still take slayer 5 frames to jump.... and pot buster takes 3 frames. IIRC the fastest attack slayer has is 2P which comes out in 4 frames... so I don't like neutral situations, they make me wanna backdash. lol

What are some of those retarded pot combos? I need to learn them so I can kill him when i get those openings.


The one that crimson showed me was off of 6K during oki, so he had to block low... but it went something like this.

6K>5K>6P FRC>j.H>late j.K>land>5H>sj.H>late 5K>land>5H>PB

There might have been a j.2K after the sj.H or something like that, but it's been a couple months since crimson showed me that after he served me some spanks. For combo advice, I highly recommend asking CrimsonDisaster. I've seen him do combos that make me shit bricks. lol

just learn to not suck and you'll be fine

true story, the key to not sucking is to not suck


#15 04 March 2008 - 05:03 PM

RoBoBOBR
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you can jump 4F frames faster
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Half man, half pilebunker.

#16 04 March 2008 - 06:20 PM

Ross
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make sure get good at CH DOT those slideheads... DOT is the key to this match I think really. Runaway and poke alot with all your good shit. Avoid being slideheaded and look for CH DOT options.

#17 04 March 2008 - 09:07 PM

EasyModeNub
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you can jump 4F frames faster


that's very true, so really it destroys my reasoning for hating neutral situations. lol

just learn to not suck and you'll be fine

true story, the key to not sucking is to not suck


#18 04 March 2008 - 11:15 PM

Zaido
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make sure get good at CH DOT those slideheads... DOT is the key to this match I think really. Runaway and poke alot with all your good shit. Avoid being slideheaded and look for CH DOT options.


when you say DOT the slide head, when do you dot it? i been told by POT players that on start up of Slide head its a no no to DOT, or even Eternal Wing, so do you mean i DOT him as his face hits the floor? or what?

cause all i been seeing is GO FOR DOT CH!!! and i am like WHEN DO I DOT COUNTER HIT?!

some of these Tips seems ideal, and i want to know when to use it!
THERE IS NOTHING UP MY アパー~!!!

#19 05 March 2008 - 04:03 AM

Villainous
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Just look for pot in the going-to-plant-my-face pose and input DOT. You're not grounded when doing it so no worry of getting slide headed unless you're slow and he hits you out of the start up. My trick for DOT hunting is to do half circle back motions randomly and if I see the opening, just press forward and S. It's probably the easiest way to do it at any moment.
Wrap life in the brilliance of death to humble us all.

:SL::BANG::HA:

#20 05 March 2008 - 05:36 AM

rtl42
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Slide Head Comments: [Frames] 1-16, 26-35 above the knees invincibility so, do it at frames 17-25, i guess.

#21 05 March 2008 - 05:38 AM

MacArthur Blunts
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some pots bait out DOT with 6K cause it looks similar to slide head. watch out.

Ever check out Slayerland?


#22 05 March 2008 - 10:07 AM

Zaido
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i guess i will just have to fight the match more just to get the experience and stuff... :X i can see where its giong to... but i just need to play it more to be able to do it !.. thx for tips guys!
THERE IS NOTHING UP MY アパー~!!!

#23 06 March 2008 - 12:26 PM

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Alrighty, Big Timmy(PO).......:psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

Ok, first i gotta say as retarded as a match-up this is for Slayer, it's very winnable. Even I, The Boss of all bosses still has trouble with this match-up but i will provide whatever useful info that i can:keke:

I think that the killing point for Slayer in this match-up is when he gets knocked down because Big Timmy has a lot of options here that ALL lead to big damage but can b dealt with:

- Meaty 5K(BD bite or just BD if u can)

- 6K(BD bite)

- Meaty Slidehead(BD bite)

- 5P POTEMKIN BUSTAAAAAAA(BD and get outta there b4 the PB)

- Meaty 6HS > Slidehead (Depending on the distance u can BD bite, Pilebunker, but if neither just BD outta there)

- Reflector(Same as above)

- Heatknuckle( don't BD jump on wake-up all the time)

Now, how do we keep from gettin knocked down by Big Timmy? RUN!!!! Use the 1 big advantage u have against him and that is ur mobility. He can't catch u but he'll more than likely try and this is where u make ur move.

Continuously IAD back and forward around the stage while occasionally sneaking in a poke(5K and j.K r best) then combo. This will annoy Big Timmy and he will begin to chase u or try to hit u with a Slidehead as soon as u land from an IAD and when he does so, move in on him and get a combo before he recovers. This should b ur KEY STRATEGY: stay away until u get an opportunity to strike, strike, and take damage.


I will post more useful stuff l8r but till then here r sum vids of SL beating PO.:thumbu:

http://youtube.com/w...feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CxY7Nhv6Mv4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0x9gg2DozI0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=81VjO4piIsg begins at 4:26(My match from SERv2 against Marnichiban's PO. It's old but it may b able to help some of u all.)
"IMO Tiers just give people an excuse for losing with their character(s)." - Boss

#24 06 March 2008 - 06:39 PM

rtl42
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"make" damage, not "take" :v:

#25 07 March 2008 - 02:27 AM

Zaido
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More Reaction less Guessing! or less Jumping in my case XD...
THERE IS NOTHING UP MY アパー~!!!

#26 01 May 2008 - 02:30 PM

deci
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i've played mike z and several other potemkins for awhile now and i noticed that the best way to approach this match up (for me anyway) is like a match from ST (super street fighter 2 turbo). basically, zoning and position. most people pay attention to the zoning but not the position. this allows potemkin to pressure you into the corner where it's harder for you to use your mobility. potemkin wants to catch you. how he does this is to either knock you down or chase you to your corner. since you can anti air all his jump ins, he must figure out a way to get you to either back up, jump, or attack him. so what you want to do is learn how to stand your ground, out poke him, anti air him, and not get pushed to the corner. so the most important thing is to not get hit by slide head or 2d. best way to avoid slide head (although risky) is to learn how to 2h on reaction to it. 2h will hop you over slide head without making you commit to a jump (which will let him jump torwards you since he beats you in the air except for tip of foot j.k range) or a back dash (which lets him move towards you slightly and gain ground). 2h will also counter hit his slide head from a pretty good distance. this obviously leads to some pretty good combos with or without tension depending on distance. just learning how to use 2h to beat slidehead in this match is HUGE. the other thing can use to avoid slide head is to 6k. however i recommend only doing this if you need to move closer to him. once you are close enough (like 2h range, and definitely 5k range) you should use 2h instead to hold your ground. once you are in the correct range, to stay here you will need to out poke him. basically this means 5k a lot. it it hits, combo 5k as far as you can then p mappa. then back dash right away. he really can't beat 5k with anything as long as you keep linking it and are in range. remember if you commit to any attack or pressure (such as p mappa) back dash right after it to get away from potbuster. if he jumps at you, 2s anti air him. if he gets tricky and double jumps or gets you to miss your anti air. try to get away from him (often i'll mappa under him or forward dash... unless he is close to his corner). of course you can also try to air throw him from below if you are good at that, or depending on angle, j.p and j.k work good but they are risky. 5p is risky too but sometimes works here. any time he is really close to you, just use 5p and 2p to make sure you beat anything he can throw out. hit confirm this into combos obviously, or just let it push you out into 5k poke range if he blocks. obviously there is much more to this fight than this. (like what to do vs specific moves, always IBing or back dashing the 6h, etc) but this is my basic game plan vs potemkin. just remember to pay attention to your screen position. if you get too close to your corner, and you get a knockdown on him. hop over him and start zoning him from the other side. just make sure you stay out of your corner. edit: actually i just discovered it is not safe to p mappa after 5k spam if the potemkin is blocking because he will do hammer fall to beat the mappa. of course you can bait the hammer but be careful of hammer break pot buster.

#27 01 May 2008 - 04:28 PM

rtl42
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so, what's the correct range? if I hit with 5K as you are saying, should a 2K-2D be able to connect, or is that too close?

#28 02 May 2008 - 07:38 AM

deci
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so, what's the correct range? if I hit with 5K as you are saying, should a 2K-2D be able to connect, or is that too close?


the safest spot to be is probably the longer 5k ranges where his 5p and pot buster don't reach you. his 5p is 5 frames which is his only move that is faster than slayer 5k (other than pot buster of course.)

it really doesn't matter quite as much though as long as you get your 5k out first. if you're inside your 2p range and you're not sure if you can get that 5k out in time, just 2p first then 5k.


just make sure you watch for his hammer fall. 5k and 2p should both recover in time after 1 hit for you to block it. but keep an eye out for hammer break pot buster. (a good thing to do here is try to ib the hammer fall, then if you see the break animation, just tap back one more time and you'll safely back dash (or bdc jump) the pot buster.


edit: oh another thing i just remembered is you can bdc mappa (or even bdc dandy step) to punish slidehead on reaction. though i still think it is easier and better to use 2h if you are in range. but at long range bdc k mappa does pretty well. avoiding slide head with bdc dandy is much trickier, but also gives you some options for mixup from the dandy step.
these of course are tensionless alternatives to the fairly common knowledge DOT punish on reaction.

#29 23 May 2008 - 03:02 AM

rtl42
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just make sure you watch for his hammer fall. 5k and 2p should both recover in time after 1 hit for you to block it. but keep an eye out for hammer break pot buster. (a good thing to do here is try to ib the hammer fall, then if you see the break animation, just tap back one more time and you'll safely back dash (or bdc jump) the pot buster.

i don't understand your parenthesized tip. isn't the break timing for HF quite variable, up until he's in your face?-- in which case, isn't this getting a bit too far into mindreading your opponent?

point i'm making is, if you're watching to IB the HF, and he's not already in your face, it doesn't seem unreasonable for Potemkin to do an early break-buster, before you can even tap back once.

edit: oh another thing i just remembered is you can bdc mappa (or even bdc dandy step) to punish slidehead on reaction. though i still think it is easier and better to use 2h if you are in range. but at long range bdc k mappa does pretty well. avoiding slide head with bdc dandy is much trickier, but also gives you some options for mixup from the dandy step.

why BDC dandy? you get strike invincibility on start-up, anyways.

#30 27 May 2008 - 10:17 PM

MacArthur Blunts
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You can punish slide head with dandy without BDC just takes timing. Also, 2H will work vs slidehead from VERY far away. Making 2H DOT FRC a VERY good way to get dmg against pot.

Ever check out Slayerland?





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