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[CSE] Bang vs Hakumen


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#1 14 February 2012 - 06:28 AM

DaiAndOh
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Discuss this matchup here.

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#2 07 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

Mr.Minionman
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Hey, fairly new player here, how do you get out of the corner against this guy? I gotten stuck by a few Hakumen's now who stand just out of range of 5B and respond to whatever i do with C moves and drive. I'm probably just being really predictable, but i'm not quite sure of the best method out of it.

#3 07 April 2012 - 05:24 PM

Midnight-Zephyr
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Drive is fairly reliable, and if you're in FRKZ, you shouldn't have this problem. then again, this is coming from 1 newbie to another.

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       :TER: + :ballKA: = :vbang:


#4 08 April 2012 - 01:59 AM

DaiAndOh
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Hey, fairly new player here, how do you get out of the corner against this guy? I gotten stuck by a few Hakumen's now who stand just out of range of 5B and respond to whatever i do with C moves and drive. I'm probably just being really predictable, but i'm not quite sure of the best method out of it.


He doesn't really have a long range decently fast anti-air. Perhaps try super jump->double airdash?

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#5 12 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

_Sey
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What's a good way to deal with Hakumen's air normals/jump ins?

I'm mostly looking at his j.B since it looks like it's pretty much impossible for Bang to AA it properly with 5A or 5B (j.B hitbox is waaaaay longer than its hurtbox) and 2D feels kinda...gimmicky?

I've tried to come up with something in training mode and it feels like a preemptive jump back j.B if far away from him or jump back j.A if close to him can work, but of course you could get hit with j.C (or still lose to j.B if the j.A/j.B timing was off).

Edited by _Sey, 12 April 2012 - 01:59 PM.


#6 13 April 2012 - 02:44 PM

Midnight-Zephyr
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What's a good way to deal with Hakumen's air normals/jump ins?

I'm mostly looking at his j.B since it looks like it's pretty much impossible for Bang to AA it properly with 5A or 5B (j.B hitbox is waaaaay longer than its hurtbox) and 2D feels kinda...gimmicky?

I've tried to come up with something in training mode and it feels like a preemptive jump back j.B if far away from him or jump back j.A if close to him can work, but of course you could get hit with j.C (or still lose to j.B if the j.A/j.B timing was off).


j.236C is my best bet for jump ins, however, you want to be careful he doesn't slash the nail.
j.D is another reliable tool IMO.

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       :TER: + :ballKA: = :vbang:


#7 13 April 2012 - 03:22 PM

YukiBlue
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This matchup is balls. His j.B and 3C pretty much always kick my ass.

I usually just deny him to jump in and Dash under and shitty approaches. If I don't have time I'll either block or go for a risky 2D or 5B if he has his barrier down and I think I'll get lucky. But about 50% of the time I just block his shit all day.

Anyone have answers to constant drive-spam? It's pretty frustrating.
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#8 13 April 2012 - 09:08 PM

DLM UNDEAD
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This matchup is balls. His j.B and 3C pretty much always kick my ass.

I usually just deny him to jump in and Dash under and shitty approaches. If I don't have time I'll either block or go for a risky 2D or 5B if he has his barrier down and I think I'll get lucky. But about 50% of the time I just block his shit all day.

Anyone have answers to constant drive-spam? It's pretty frustrating.

depends on when he is doing it. but if he is doing it right after your 2b in a blockstring when you go for d-nails a simple jump cancel forward j.C will do the trick or a tk.c-nail will work. In general your command grab is great for making him scared to use his drive.
:BANG::f::dbt:

#9 13 April 2012 - 11:16 PM

YukiBlue
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True. However I just find it hard to apply and sort of ambiguous or risky mixup. And I pretty much have to go autopilot or I get like 3.5K or whatever to some mashed out Yukikaze. Without any risks you get pretty mediocre rewards, and getting into range to apply this mixup is easier said than done.

I usually use C bumpers to confuse him or bait it but it's all just a ballache.

Command grab is still an amazing tool here, though. Shame about the nerf to it.
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#10 13 April 2012 - 11:36 PM

Chazmobile
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Honestly I use regular grab a lot more than command grab here. Lower risk, higher reward and great conditioning. Once you get the Hakumen scared to stop throwing out counters you can get in there and start taking more risks.


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#11 13 April 2012 - 11:49 PM

DLM UNDEAD
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Honestly I use regular grab a lot more than command grab here. Lower risk, higher reward and great conditioning. Once you get the Hakumen scared to stop throwing out counters you can get in there and start taking more risks.


Lower risk , sure. but higher reward? i dunno about that
:BANG::f::dbt:

#12 13 April 2012 - 11:59 PM

Chazmobile
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Lower risk , sure. but higher reward? i dunno about that


It is without the meter to follow up. You get 3 seals and it works on all areas of the screen.


[17/09/2013 21:16:58] Chaoschao: Tell him I want to shove his face in an industrial fan.
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#13 14 April 2012 - 01:22 AM

DLM UNDEAD
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It is without the meter to follow up. You get 3 seals and it works on all areas of the screen.


i would rather take an unburstable 2k plus oki. shit adds up. but its all a matter of personal preference i guess
:BANG::f::dbt:

#14 14 April 2012 - 01:26 AM

Chazmobile
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i would rather take an unburstable 2k plus oki. shit adds up. but its all a matter of personal preference i guess


True, but it's nice to force a burst so that they have less options later on. The main reason I stick to regular grab though is that it's so easy to get mashed out of.

All in all both are effective and scary tools.


[17/09/2013 21:16:58] Chaoschao: Tell him I want to shove his face in an industrial fan.
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#15 13 May 2012 - 07:41 PM

Dr.Patient
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I found out command grabs work really well, as well as frametraps, usually a hakumen will fish for a 5D or something if you try to pressure too hard, tk D nails are no good, he can drive those, just basically jump around, be really annoying, then take advantage when he tries to hit and whiffs, most of his moves take alot of recovery, also, if he jumps in on you, there's not much to do besides block and wait for his pressure to finish, you don't have an anti air so yea, but like I said, command grabs, and regular grabs are good, I think frkz is good for this matchup also, just watch out for his drives

#16 17 May 2012 - 01:13 AM

Ree301
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Chazmobile is onto something there lol I've got some experience in this match up, lemme see if I can shed some light on it.

Opening, he can't really catch you with anything but IAD. Having said that, a good Hakumen player will turtle a bit more in the beginning of the match. I'd count on him doing IAD back j.C. Naturally, as Bangus, we're like, OMG D NAILS. This mugs counter range is retarded, if he does Drive our d nails, he can snatch us up from way far so... No TKD nails to get in here, it doesn't seem smart. So at neutral he's got Air Dash j.B. 2D it if it looks like it'll going to make contact with him and worst case scenario, he blocks. That's cool, we can JC and reset pressure with nails or IAD j.4B. We can even jump away and go back to neutral. In pressure, grab a lot. purple throw even. what's a throw reject to us? Nothing. Whats a throw reject miss to Haku mashing Drive? Damage. Seals. Heat. It's a good option, thanks Chaz.

On defense, almost all of Hakumen's normals are safe. 3C is -4 for goodness sake. Don't try to punish unless you're more playing the person than the character (good reads I mean). Jump out during awkward moments and maybe 3C is the worst that'll hit you. Save your bursts for crazy stuff, like if you see a 3 Mag move coming, or a Mugen death combo (Shippu, which is a 10 frame super now, while in Mugen does 4k minimum?! Also worth noting that he has an unburstable 6D>Mugen>Shippu combo).

On offense, I like A nail combo enders. Folks get poisoned and lose their mind. It'll make a Haku rush you down instead of turtling for heat. I spoke of 2D AA earlier. CH leads to an easy 4 Seal combo and FRKZ is highly suggested here. Haku has j.A to deal with it, maybe Hotaru. But if we touch him, he dies. Speaking of, that's a decent option for him on wake up, like a pseudo DP. With tight pressure you can catch jump startup... but run the risk of getting countered. Rock, paper, scissors y'know.




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