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[CSE] Iron Tager Tech Trap/Gadget Mix Up Thread


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#1 11 March 2012 - 05:49 PM

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This thread is to discuss useful tech traps and how they work.

When you type out a tech trap be sure to name what the trap catches, how it works, and when to use it.
Table Contents
1. Introduction To Tech-Traps And Resets
2. General Notes
3. How To Read This Guide
4. Corner Tech-Traps
5. Mid-screen Tech-Traps
6. Gadget RC Resets

Introduction To Tech-Traps And Resets

First things first, what is a tech-trap exactly?

In a nutshell, a tech-trap is basically a setup in which you are able to punish your opponent for teching in a specific way. Good tech-traps will offer specific and reliable punishes for most or even all teching options your opponent has. The best tech-traps, however, not only offer effective answers to your opponent's teching options, but are ones where the opponent's teching options that seem the safest are actually the ones that will get them punished severely.

Now what’s a reset?

A reset is basically when the player, instead of continuing or ending a combo in typical fashion, chooses to discontinue it (thus returning the combo counter back to zero, hence the term “reset” ) and goes for a mixup instead. If the mixup is successful, then the player can go into a fresh, unprorated combo. This is how Carl gets most of his big damage and how Tager maximizes his, in addition to the use of tech-traps. Other examples of characters with resets include Jin with his Drives and 236D corner loop and Ragna and his double BE, 5D, 22C corner combo. Tager’s choice of reset setup is Gadget Finger RC, which I will refer to as Gadget RC from now on.

How important are tech-traps and resets to Tager’s game?

Using tech-traps and resets aren’t absolutely 100% necessary for Tager play, but I suggest learning them if you want to maximize Tager’s damage output. Tager’s tricky tech-trap and reset game is by far his greatest strength and the source for many an opponent’s frustration.

How reliable are these tech-traps and resets?

It is worth noting though that these setups can be considered gimmicks so do not expect to land some of them more once. The key to using tech-traps effectively is not to throw out a whole bunch of obscure and complicated setups, but rather to go with a select few tech-traps you are comfortable and familiar with and exploit your opponent’s understanding and reaction to them. For example, grounded neutral techs are typically punished with 360, but your opponent can escape them by jumping immediately after the tech. You can use this to your advantage by baiting the jump, then catching them with Collider.

Lean to effectively utilize these various setups as well as the mindgames they open up and hopefully you’ll become a better and smarter Tager player.

General Notes

  • Unless noted otherwise, Collider will catch aerial forward and backwards techs, 360 will catch neutral techs and forward rolls, and 720 will catch neutral techs, and backwards and forward rolls.
  • Your opponent can escape any and all 360/720 neutral tech setups by simply jumping. The keyword here is can – people who don’t know they can instantly jump after neutral-tech or are mashing tech mindlessly will eat the tech-trap. On the other hand, you can use this to your advantage by catching their jump-out attempts with Collider. Observe your opponents’ habits and adjust accordingly.
  • If your opponent chooses not to tech, you should use this opportunity to set up additional tech-traps or magnetize them with a simple combo like OTG 5B, 4D. Going for blackbeat combos is not advised due to Tager’s poor 40% combo rate. It is far more rewarding to go with the former two options and attempt to set up an advantageous wake-up situation.
  • During a magnetized combo, you can stop the combo after a hit with 2B, 6B, 2C, 6A, or 6C and attempt to go for a tech-trap. This isn’t usually advised however, since with most magnetized combos, Tager can simply replace a typical ender (ex. B-Sledge, Gadget Finger) with a tech-trap setup instead. That isn’t to say mid-combo tech-traps are completely useless, just that they are situational (like say, if you want to kill your opponent without risking a burst, so you go for a Collider tech-trap into Collider whiff, MTW instead).
  • Corner-tech traps will work with or without magnetism unless noted otherwise.
  • In the event that neutral tech leaves your opponent too far away for you to catch with 360, you can usually tag them with 5D for extra magnetism.

How To Read This Guide


The combos here use the format as the ones in the “Iron Tager Complete Guide (CS)” thread.

Tech-traps and resets will be written in this format

1. (NT, BR, FR) 6A>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 5D (whiff) 360/720
Notes: <insert notes here>

The opening moves of the combos unless noted otherwise are simply placeholders. Most of these tech-traps will work for magnetized combos that allow you an ender.

The letters in parentheses stand for the types of techs that the setup will catch. NT stands for neutral tech, BR stands for backwards roll, FT stands for aerial forward tech, and so on. Resets don’t have this.

For tech-traps, the move in blue is the move your opponent is expected to tech after. For resets, the move in blue is the move used to reset the combo.

The move in red is the move you’ll make them eat after the tech or reset.

Notes are self-explanatory. Contain useful bits of specific info such as who this setup was stolen from, the strengths of the setup, how to pull it off properly, what situations it is most effective in, etc.




Key:

NT=neutral tech
BT=back tech
FT=front tech

Edited by A.X.I.S., 09 April 2012 - 04:12 AM.

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#2 11 March 2012 - 05:49 PM

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Corner Tech-Traps


1. (NT, BT, FT) 6A>2C xx Collider, B-Sledge xx Additional Attack Collider/360
Notes: Decent old-school CT corner magnetism-less tech-trap. Depending on how close you are to the corner, you might not be able to catch their FT or NT. Being too far away leaves you unable to catch their NT with 360 and being too close allows them to cross you up with FT. In the former situation, you can tag them with 5D (optional). In the latter, you might be able to catch them 2C if they aren’t barrier-blocking.

2. (NT, BT, FT) 6A>2C xx Collider, 6C>JC, j.2C, 5B Collider/360/720
Notes: Setup stolen from LostSoul526, who was probably inspired by Galileo (whom we all shamelessly steal tricks from). Anyways, I’m not completely sure if the Collider will catch an un-magnetized BT since the vid shows the Collider sucking the opponent in for a while. Maybe LostSoul526 held it for a bit though, I’m not sure. The 360A may or may not require magnetism to land. 720 will definitely hit, though you lose the ability to catch BT or FT since the 720 has to be buffered during 5B and activated almost immediately. This tech-trap is probably at its most useful when magnetized since landing the Collider reset will allow you to put your opponent back in the corner for more shenanigans.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.c...qQnlcBU#t=1m09s

3. (NT, BT ) 6A>2C xx Collider, 6C xx MTW, 2B Collider/360
Notes: This setup is only really reliable if you expect a neutral tech or you are looking for a way to kill your opponent without risking a burst. FT will cross you up, so 2C is your best bet to catch it. Only dumb people will BT into the corner.


Mid-Screen Tech-Traps


1. (NT, BR, FR) 6A>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 6B>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff) 5D (whiff) 360/720
Notes: Setup stolen from Mike Z. Anyways, this setup is a pretty sick puppy. Make sure to immediately buffer the 720 after the 5D whiff for best effect. 720 will utterly rape anyone who attempts a BR or FR. If I remember correctly, held 360A and possibly 360B will catch a BR or FR as well. The best part about this setup though is that a neutral-tech will leave them directly next to you, making for a great opportunity to catch jumpers with 2B or go for tick-throws.

Video link: http://www.youtube.c...lAwKBpk#t=4m17s

2. (NT, BT, FT) 6A>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 6B>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 5B 360/Collider
Notes: A nice alternative to the above tech-trap.

3. (NT) 6A>2C xx Collider, Collider whiff, 6B>2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 5B> 4D RC Collider (whiff) 360/720
Notes: Setup stolen from Galileo. There are better traps out there but this setup is great for catching people who forget no to NT Tager’s Drives. Collider whiff must be done immediately following the RC to ensure the opponent is pulled directly next to you. A similar trap can be done with OTG 2D and magnetized OTG 5D. The latter does not require meter so it’s probably the one you’ll want to go with. Timing for the Collider whiff is slightly less lenient for OTG 2D but again, you’ll probably want to go for magnetized OTG 5D instead.

4.

5. (Emergency Roll) 6A>2C xx Collider, 6C xx Spark Volt 6A (whiff) 360/720
Notes: Setup taken from Darlos9D. Spark Volt tech-trap setups are pretty expensive and risky (or should I say riskier?) but very rewarding. This tech-trap’s strength is in tricking your opponent into thinking you screwed up. Buffer the 720 during the 6A whiff. The timing for the 720 is a little strict since 6A has ambiguous (and slow) recovery. Hitting the “C” too early will cause the 720 to not come out. Again, this tech-trap also suffers the same problem as other NT 360/720 setups. More aggressive opponents however will attempt to punish you for the 6A whiff and end up eating a throw counter 720, hence the strength of this trap.

6. (FT, BT) 6A>2C xx Collider, 6C>j.D Collider
Notes: Old-school tech-trap. 6C, j.D is one of CT Tager’s stronger combo enders since it allows for tech-traps. If the opponent was already magnetized before the j.D, in addition to being able to do the full combo, the j.D will pull them in close enough for a NT to be caught with 360/720. Catching the opponent’s BT might be trickier since they can do a number of things to alter the momentum of the Collider’s magnetic pull. In most cases, even if the Collider doesn’t catch them, they will still be pulled close enough for you to continue pressure. Just make sure they don’t fly over your head. 2A is your friend here.

7. (FR, NT, BR) Magnetized 360A Gadget (whiff) 360/720
Notes: Character specific since Gadget Finger will immediately catch some magnetized characters. 360 must be held to catch FT and BT. 720 must buffered very quickly during the Gadget whiff.

8. (FR. NT, BR) Spark Volt, 5C/2C xx Collider, Collider whiff, MTW Gadget whiff 720
Notes: Setup stolen from Akira. As with all Gadget whiff, 720 setups, 720 must be buffered very quickly. A very expensive and situational setup. Its main strength is for finishing your opponent off if a Terra Break followup won’t cut it.

9. (NT, BT, FT) CH 5D/4D>5C>6A xx Collider (delayed)

10. (NT,FT,BT) 6A, 2C xx Collider, Collider (whiff), 6B>2C xx B-Sledge Collider/720
Notes: Mike Z special. Apparently this is more useful than I previously gave it credit for. Sorry Mikey. :P Anyways, this tech trap will catch both FT and BTas well as NT. Just don't buffer that 720 until you confirm the tech. Pretty strong trap against people who think NT is the safest air-tech option against Tager.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.c...elated#t=10m20s

11.(NT) Any combo ending in techable knockdown, Collider (whiff), 360/720
Notes: This trap only works if the opponent is magnetized and NTs. NT puts your opponent in an airborne state allowing the Collider to pull them towards you with considerable momentum when done on wake-up. The Collider will recover in time for you to 360/720 or 2B/Collider any jump-out attempts, making this tech-trap a good 50/50. Hitting 4D after the Collider (whiff) is also an option that will CH poke attempts. On block, it will still leave your opponent in close range. Trap best done from half to full-screen distance. One of the more useful qualities of it in the long run however, is that it will condition your opponent to either delay-tech, quick rise, or roll-tech. You can use this oppurtunity to get in and possibly setup additional traps.

12. (NT, FR, BR) 6A>2C xx Collider, Collider whiff, 6B>2C xx Collider, sj.C (whiff), j.D (whiff), 360/720
Notes: Stolen from Galileo. Another reason why your opponent should not roll-tech while magnetized against Tager. NT leaves them close enough for continued pressure/mixups. FT escapes 360 if I remember correctly but not 720.
Video Link:http://www.youtube.c...related#t=2m30s

13. (NT) ...AC, 2D, 5D (whiff), (Insert Gadget finger-esque mixup)
Notes: Contributed by Manta. "Only works if they neutral tech, if they don't then the 5D will whiff and you're not really any worse off."

14. 5D/4D (ch) or Spark Bolt 5C > 6A > 2C xx Held Collider
Notes: Contributed by Manta. "Loses only to a well timed tech and quick air move, all other times you either get the collider reset or just bluebeat them for decent damage."

Edited by A.X.I.S., 10 April 2012 - 04:10 PM.

AXISISM - A Way Of Life

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#3 11 March 2012 - 05:50 PM

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Gadget RC Resets

Here's a useful video on the general uses for Gadget Finger. The second half contains useful information on Gadget Flinger. A must-view.

1.Gadget Finger RC, 5D 360/720
Notes: 5D must be done immediately after the RC. Do the 360720 as seen as you see the white tech flash. If your opponent is mashing jab, go for 360A/720 instead of 360B, which should be usual option. If your opponent chooses not to tech, the 5D will have pulled them close enough for you to go for tick-throws.

Video link: http://www.youtube.c...KPEuSFo#t=1m47s

2.Gadget Finger RC, Collider (whiff)
Notes: The infamous “Gadget Flinger” setup. Allows you to crossunder ambiguously if you fling your opponent high enough. I didn’t post a “catch move” here since this setup offers a lot of possibilities. 2B and 360B are some of the more standard and reliable options. Timing on the Collider is pretty strict so practice up. Only character it won't work on is Tager because of his gigantic hitbox.

Video link: http://www.youtube.c...fHIyhw#t=02m29s

3.Gadget Finger RC walk up 360B
Notes: Setup stolen from Jan. Err, yeah. Walk up, 360B. Requires a little bit of timing so the 360B doesn’t pink. Probably the most gimmicky setup on here, but as always, the element of surprise is on your side and is what makes this reset more effective than it might appear.

Video link: http://www.youtube.c...elated#t=16m13s

4.Gadget Finger RC, 5C Gadget (whiff) 360/720
Notes: Setup stolen from Akira. Similar timing to the Gadget 5D setup. Just make sure not to clock your opponent in the face with 5C while they’re still in the air. This tech trap is a little on the slow side since Gadget whiff does not recover as quickly as it appears. 360 must be held.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.c...ure=sub#t=0m59s

5.Gadget Finger RC, walk up, 2B 360/720
Notes: Just your average tick-throw setup, except off a Gadget RC.

6.Gadget Finger RC, walk up, 2B>5B>6B,> followup combo
Notes: Overhead setup. Setup inspired by Bao. Feel free to omit the 2B. I use it to make sure my opponent will be blocking low and not trying to jump out before I throw out the overhead. Effectiveness of this setup largely depends on how good your opponent is at blocking overheads. What makes this setup work is that after getting hit low, most people will immediately start blocking low, which at that point you throw out the overhead.

7. Any 6 hit+ combo, Gadget Finger RC, delayed 6A>2C
Notes: This one's from Axis. Main use of this reset is to catch mashy players. Done correctly, the 6A will hit the opponent while they are grounded and still count as part of the previous combo. However, the 2C will uncombo and land a FC on anyone who's mashing. On block, a delayed 4D will CH anyone who tries to IB punish with a non-invincible move.

Edited by A.X.I.S., 09 April 2012 - 03:46 AM.

AXISISM - A Way Of Life

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#4 11 March 2012 - 07:06 PM

Manta
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Shameless copying from the other thread:

(NT) (In corner) 360A/B, 5B > 4D, 720C
4D is techable at that proration.

(All) (Mag) ... 3C (AC), 2C > AC

You need to delay the AC cancel slightly or they'll neutral through it.

(NT)... AC (into corner-ish), j.2C, 5B > j.A > j.B >j.D, AC
(NT) (Mag)... AC , j.2C, 5B > j.A > j.C >(j.D), 360

On the second one, the j.D land cancels and they land in front of you.


(NT) (Mag)...623C, 6C > 22D (whiff), 623C
Bounces them towards you in a large arc.

(NT/FT/BT) (Mag) from opponent downed at your feet: 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > 623C (whiff), 623C OR 360A
A tech trap you'll get if you mess up the part of the combo where the first 623C Connects. Just got to watch how long you hold the AC out for.

(NT)(Mag) 3C > 623C (whiff), 623C
Again, salvaging what you can when you mess up a 3C flinger and make them fly too far.

#5 11 March 2012 - 08:36 PM

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Gadget Finger
GF > GF whiff
Done while they are descending, if they dare to back dash they'll just get dragged back allowing you to easily 360B/720
GF > RC > 5B > 2B > GF whiff
For those that like to DP the first one, I'm sure 2B may whiff some characters I've not test on most cast yet.

Basic stuff
2D/4D/5D ender 5D/4D/AC/GF whiff > 360/720
(mag) 3C > A Sledge > 5A > AC
Catches forward/back air tech, if they neutral tech go into 360/720 right away

this thread is retarded

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#6 02 April 2012 - 06:11 PM

Manta
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Anyone for deliberately using Tager's repeat rate moves?

(mag)...3C (Second time) AC, AC
...6C (Second time) > j.B+C

#7 02 April 2012 - 06:55 PM

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Uh GF gimicks and mix ups aren't resets. They are mix ups. Since our mix up is cool though, perhaps we need a mix up section somewhere.
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#8 07 April 2012 - 06:27 PM

Manta
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you could argue that all tech traps are just mixups. Some are just surprise Oki too. it's a blurry line.

#9 07 April 2012 - 08:23 PM

Osuna
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you could argue that all tech traps are just mixups. Some are just surprise Oki too. it's a blurry line.

I don't see how you can argue that since the reason we use the term reset is to describe ending a combo early in an attempt to reset the combo. Ending the combo at the end, where all of the hits and damage have been done has never been referred to as a reset.

So resets can be mix ups, but mix ups aren't resets.

We aren't the only character that can do stuff like that, and it's just spending meter for better oki. There's no ambiguity about it. Especially in GF RC mix ups since the opponent, regardless of how tricky you are about it, is also made aware that the combo is about to end.

And of course it is clearly not a tech trap.
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#10 07 April 2012 - 08:33 PM

Manta
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Well no, GF is an enforced oki situation, which you mix up between various options. I'll revise my statement a bit; A good tech trap is also a good mixup, where teching or not teching (or teching different ways) all might lead to bad stuff happening. As opposed to a gimmick tech trap (like, 5D > AC) which has one answer which will always work. That's not a mixup.

The only obvious difference between that and good old fashioned oki is the possible surprise factor of ending your combo early.

#11 08 April 2012 - 12:01 AM

Osuna
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Well no, GF is an enforced oki situation, which you mix up between various options. I'll revise my statement a bit; A good tech trap is also a good mixup, where teching or not teching (or teching different ways) all might lead to bad stuff happening. As opposed to a gimmick tech trap (like, 5D > AC) which has one answer which will always work. That's not a mixup.

The only obvious difference between that and good old fashioned oki is the possible surprise factor of ending your combo early.

Okie dokie.

GF RC is still not a reset or a tech trap.
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#12 08 April 2012 - 07:13 AM

Manta
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No, it's Oki with more options and frame advantage

#13 08 April 2012 - 07:20 AM

A.X.I.S.
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I just call it a mix up.
That's all gadget RC is anyway.

I promise I will have something done in this thread today unless something stops me.

AXISISM - A Way Of Life

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#14 09 April 2012 - 04:14 AM

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Ok I copy pasted the previous thread, I also changed the threads name after talking to Osuna about it.

I will need to update the gadget resets and the tech trap video links.
I will also edit some other things when I get the chance.
Stay tuned.

AXISISM - A Way Of Life

Axis is adorable until he starts talking and killing games.





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