Jump to content


[CSE] Litchi vs Bang


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 12 March 2012 - 07:40 PM

EXonestar
EXonestar

    HYPEST OF DAWGS!

  • Moderators
  • Twitter: @ZakOnestar
  • Location London, UK
  • PSN:  EXonestar

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
Discuss the Match Up here

From experience i think we all know , poking him with ranged moves can lead to D drive Counter teleports also making Jump in pressure risky. The staff is able to keep him at bay whiles he is in Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan Mode but he still presents a challenge.

If anyone can add anything strategic, Please Do :I:
| Youtube :DS: | :LI: |
"A defeatist attitude accomplishes nothing. Watch. Learn. Persevere. Conquer!"

#2 12 March 2012 - 09:24 PM

Fugu
Fugu

    早い

  • Members
  • Location Toronto, Ontario
  • PSN:  Fygu
I hate this matchup furiously. I would be interested in knowing what the better players think of this. I find myself unable to control space against Bang.

#3 12 March 2012 - 09:42 PM

EXonestar
EXonestar

    HYPEST OF DAWGS!

  • Moderators
  • Twitter: @ZakOnestar
  • Location London, UK
  • PSN:  EXonestar

Awards Bar:

Users Awards

I hate this matchup furiously. I would be interested in knowing what the better players think of this. I find myself unable to control space against Bang.


I Feel the same, if you play the poke game , he can D Drive it and punish u , if you try to go close, you can pressure him but he can D drive counter the staff by its self on top of this , when he pressures u , its easy to block if u know his mix up but that Overhead,Jump cross over is so STICKY...........................

So yo really have to be picky when figuring how to enter combat with him
| Youtube :DS: | :LI: |
"A defeatist attitude accomplishes nothing. Watch. Learn. Persevere. Conquer!"

#4 13 March 2012 - 12:37 AM

E3vE3 WAZ HEA
E3vE3 WAZ HEA

    Spread Love Not Salt

  • Members
  • Location The Dream
  • XBL: Eievui Guwa
  • PSN:  EievuiKun-Guwa
troll: just make sure he doesn't "nail" you *bua dum tsss*

help: this match is REALLY annoying, all i can say is try to make him feel as he has nothing else to do but block, try to get in as fast as you can, air grab (this works sometimes), try to bait his D moves so u get a counter hit and, press buttons during FRKZ(i dont think pressing buttons will be that helpful, but if hes going to run around pressing buttons y not litchi right) also dont try anything against his nails, i cant find a way around this so i just block them, if anyone else has a better way to deal with them PLEASE share

Troll: Bang bang bang went the trolley ding ding ding went the bell

:LI: :KO: How I stole your man

"So why would want to do it, dummy? It's less damage and harder! Go marry your waifu!" Jokes on you, I don't have one. :v:


#5 13 March 2012 - 01:27 AM

EXonestar
EXonestar

    HYPEST OF DAWGS!

  • Moderators
  • Twitter: @ZakOnestar
  • Location London, UK
  • PSN:  EXonestar

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
In relation to the Nails

If he uses them Up close and personal, Block , ur right

If he uses it from far (the one where he throws 3) jump in between them , its safe as long as u are ready to tech his Jumping grab or Jump D or anything.

FRKZ is just .... BG's.......pressing buttons = Death , cus its either D counter in to Combo or he just goes high low high low (plus the bang players i know use bumpers DURING that mode so Fuck me lol TBH lol

The match up is so annoying whiles he has good D drive counter vs litchi and Nails (Staff can Cancel them but don't gamble ur life ) and FRKZ to just zoom all over the place.........
| Youtube :DS: | :LI: |
"A defeatist attitude accomplishes nothing. Watch. Learn. Persevere. Conquer!"

#6 17 March 2012 - 04:03 PM

Star-Demon
Star-Demon

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Location New York
  • XBL: Starsickle
  • PSN:  Starblast0r
This used to be one of my favorite matchups, but against good bangs I think Litchi will have some problems to deal with - to be honest You just need ot be a clearly better player or you're going to just lose. ( I think this is the case with anything Vs Litchi, but hey, I'm just really negative)

Anyone that puts things in the way of the stick or controlling your space or can take a hit from you using Ittsu followups is a PITA. Carl, Relius, Bang, Rachel, and Tager all do this, so you have to try to remember that as you play. Throw out anything that can be guard pointed and teleported and Litchi will get hit.

Bang gets in there. Be wary that he'll teleport any move he thinks he has enough time on. I would say just don't use anything slow until you are in combos.

DP is not good in this. Don't do it. He'll teleport it or block.
Don't itsuu nails. Bang will slide.
Don't jump nails. Bang will use Nail cover, air to air, grab, or 6C.
Don't 6B, you'll get 6D-teleported.
Don't use anything that lasts long enough for him to pull off a teleport. Shishin, 13O, Daisharin. Don't. Bang has really good options using that guard point, but you don't. If you Itsuu he's just going to 2A, teleport, or slide.
Watch all of his D attacks.

If he has 50 meter and you knocked him down, expect something. All Bangs do it. They must.

Edited by Star-Demon, 17 March 2012 - 04:10 PM.


#7 17 March 2012 - 07:05 PM

Lord Knight
Lord Knight

    The main character

  • Moderators
  • Location ~Legendary Land of King$~ (Central NJ) ~$NJ$~
  • XBL: mgtroubles
  • PSN:  TEAM MASUYAMA ELEVEN

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
4.5/5.5 in Bang's favor IMO. His hitbox on 5B and jB got better, so you can't abuse slide 2A the way you could in CS2 (though it's still somewhat useful). The match is more like CS1, except you have to work harder to take him to the corner....

Fullscreen:
Good idea to set the staff.
Against fullscreen nails - Poison Nail - IB, watch him. D nails - IB > back jump, watch him, or reposition. If they like using nails in neutral, it's better for us.

Midscreen:
Against D nails - IB > backjump or backstep. Jumping is preferable. If you're already in the air (which is the best case scenario), IB and dj/airdash awa/whatever. IB is +6 in the air.
Against jump ins - have to judge properly between 2A, 5A, itsuu, launch staff, jA... like CS1, there isn't one universal answer anymore. 5A definitely will never ever beat j4B btw. Slide 2A still works if they assume you'll stand up to block.
Against 5B - your 5B still wins. Staffless, use 2B. Slide 2A loses :/. Using 6D against it will trade in your favor.
Against 3C - just jump, don't try doing your 3C back on reaction. I'm thinking of trying to j2D it on reaction, gotta check. If you read it though, using your 3C is a fine answer. They will use 3C to stop Itsuu/6B.

Bang's Pressure:
2A > 2A = gap
5A > dash 5A = can't 2A in between unless you IB, but if you mash 5A you'll win for sure.
2A > 5B = gap
5A > 2A > no gap
5B > 5C/6A = gap
5B > 2B = no gap
Meaty 2B = beats backstep
Blocked 6D or 5D = always, always, ALWAYS use Tsbuame, he literally can't do ANYTHING to stop this, it's -13 and -15 on block (respectively), and Tsubame is 11f startup, meaning he can't do any 5D > block or 5D > Super crash shenanigans on you.
Meaty 5C = Don't dp this, he recovers before it comes out.
2B > D nails = An interesting situation, he's something like +5 on block, so first off, you should always IB this. If they like doing dash > normal, you can try doing IB > barrier jump (as barrier jumping makes your hitbox smaller than doing a normal jump). You can also IB throw, as your throw could beat a dashing normal. Both of those options are pretty risky though. Blocking is the safest, watchout for command grab after this.
2B > jump J4B = the basic low level Bang pressure, airthrow this shit.

So, basically Bang's pressure isn't too hard to deal with if you know what he has, the problem is he has a ton of options, he has D nails, and he has a command grab to keep you from just blocking all day. In between 2A > anything pretty much, you can't mash to get out, but you can DP (gotta practice though). Bang's 2A is -2, so you can DP without IB'ing (though it makes it easier), and if you can do it consistently and make him bait that early in the string, you can just abare/jump/etc. Make him work.

Litchi's pressure:
Bang's 2D kind of sucks to use to mash out this version, the cool thing to do now is 6D, if you read a 6D, use 6A and confirm your FC combo.
Using overhead for meaty occasionally works too.
Vs Ashura - If they do wake up Ashura, you can DP on reaction to super flash. I don't know if you can still clash it with 2A and punish with Ryuuisou, I have to check.
Vs Ashura in pressure - If you have the staff, you can delay any normal, wait for the super flash, and DP.
2A > 2C beats abare, 2A > 2B works pretty nicely as well and 2B goes into 6C > airdash jB etc.
For okizeme in the corner, end with j9B > j7B > jC > land Kokushi and jump straight up, this will beat 6D > tele on wake up 100 percent.
If you don't have meter, end with 6A > 2D > 3way.
@LordKnightBB

ジャパニーズマネー巻き上げてくださいね


#8 29 March 2012 - 12:45 AM

EXonestar
EXonestar

    HYPEST OF DAWGS!

  • Moderators
  • Twitter: @ZakOnestar
  • Location London, UK
  • PSN:  EXonestar

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
I Played A Good Bang player in yesterdays BB session , I tested the info given , it works very well , still hard but yeah , alot of work needed for this match up from me.............im still afraid to go in

I notice u can jump thru the nails but its risky , u better know to block + be prepared to reject a throw , i was trying it out and it worked effectively, other than that i'll update on anything i can pick up.

Also during FRKZ pressure , if u do have time to Breathe (Only IF) Using daisharin helps , i used it as a type of shield , circling me , also was able to trick the bang players i encountered by putting in something like (Directions) 2 , 8 , 1, 6 (SOME bang's try to go in and get caught) but for those that don't they do space u , after that , u have the neutral game, (till he comes back in ur face)

I do use alot of J.B wen i see Super bang, cus they love to do cross overs.

Lord Knight what do you think?

Edited by EXonestar, 29 March 2012 - 12:48 AM.

| Youtube :DS: | :LI: |
"A defeatist attitude accomplishes nothing. Watch. Learn. Persevere. Conquer!"

#9 07 April 2012 - 05:29 PM

Midnight-Zephyr
Midnight-Zephyr

    "What is this 'Neutral' you speak of?"

  • Members
  • Location Cleveland, OH
  • XBL: 360 Died :(
  • PSN:  UnheardPhantasm
ALL FUCKING GREEN!
I'm sorry, but I had to.

:KA: Mains 4 Life :ballMT:

"Morooka for P4AU"


#10 07 April 2012 - 05:38 PM

Star-Demon
Star-Demon

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Location New York
  • XBL: Starsickle
  • PSN:  Starblast0r

ALL FUCKING GREEN!
I'm sorry, but I had to.


That's a really bad idea.

Posted Image

#11 07 April 2012 - 06:36 PM

StayFree( ' 3')
StayFree( ' 3')

    BF4>BBCP

  • Members
  • Location Irvine, Cali
  • XBL: The Turntablist
  • PSN:  CreamyManCandy

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
also, 2nd hit of 41236D(straight through) is easily punishable just by using normal block on the first hit and punishing the second with 5D. On the other hand, if you see bangs trying to punish with 6D, because of the slower activation you're free to block it depending on the distance and whether or not they decided teleport..so yeah, unless you have 50 heat, I wouldn't use it in blockstring\zoning litchi players. ( -_.-)


troll: just make sure he doesn't "nail" you *bua dum tsss*


that too...

Edited by StayFree( ' 3'), 07 April 2012 - 10:15 PM.

StayFree broke his xbox. But that matchup isn't even remotely fair. Should be Ayashii & Nemesis VS StayFree and Owner. StayFree when hes playing serious is leagues better than any of them.


#12 07 April 2012 - 09:12 PM

sG
sG

    Alpaca Lord

  • Members
  • Twitter: @TheSGguy
  • Location Seattle, WA
  • PSN:  Soon™

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
There is no gap between the hits of 6D no matter how you block it. Active frames are 12(9)3 (nine frame gap between hits with 27f of blockstun. 12 + 9 = 21)

#13 07 April 2012 - 10:05 PM

StayFree( ' 3')
StayFree( ' 3')

    BF4>BBCP

  • Members
  • Location Irvine, Cali
  • XBL: The Turntablist
  • PSN:  CreamyManCandy

Awards Bar:

Users Awards

There is no gap between the hits of 6D no matter how you block it. Active frames are 12(9)3 (nine frame gap between hits with 27f of blockstun. 12 + 9 = 21)


oops, i referenced the wrong move.

*fixed.

ironically that move(6D) was also punishable in a similar way back in CS2.

Edited by StayFree( ' 3'), 07 April 2012 - 10:14 PM.

StayFree broke his xbox. But that matchup isn't even remotely fair. Should be Ayashii & Nemesis VS StayFree and Owner. StayFree when hes playing serious is leagues better than any of them.


#14 07 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

sG
sG

    Alpaca Lord

  • Members
  • Twitter: @TheSGguy
  • Location Seattle, WA
  • PSN:  Soon™

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
Actual frame data hasn't changed 6D these two games so it wasn't :v:

Litchi can't RC Itsuu (41236D+B/C) so if you ever find yourself blocking it, you should punish it every time. You can also do something like dash 5B (dash 6C maybe?) for a stronger punish. The A version is unpunishable since the two hits are gapless.

#15 07 April 2012 - 11:10 PM

StayFree( ' 3')
StayFree( ' 3')

    BF4>BBCP

  • Members
  • Location Irvine, Cali
  • XBL: The Turntablist
  • PSN:  CreamyManCandy

Awards Bar:

Users Awards

Actual frame data hasn't changed 6D these two games so it wasn't :v:

Litchi can't RC Itsuu (41236D+B/C) so if you ever find yourself blocking it, you should punish it every time. You can also do something like dash 5B (dash 6C maybe?) for a stronger punish. The A version is unpunishable since the two hits are gapless.


If you're referring to bang you usually can't punish with dash 5B because of the distance, that is unless they decided to do it point blank, in which case 3C and 6C would be free.


...oh, and was it CS1 6D I'm thinkin of?

StayFree broke his xbox. But that matchup isn't even remotely fair. Should be Ayashii & Nemesis VS StayFree and Owner. StayFree when hes playing serious is leagues better than any of them.


#16 07 April 2012 - 11:42 PM

sG
sG

    Alpaca Lord

  • Members
  • Twitter: @TheSGguy
  • Location Seattle, WA
  • PSN:  Soon™

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
Most likely, the first hit of 6D was able to be canceled into Itsuu so 6D would just beat it if Bang decided to do so. The actual blockstun data for 6D was also buffed since then.

#17 09 April 2012 - 02:12 PM

Midnight-Zephyr
Midnight-Zephyr

    "What is this 'Neutral' you speak of?"

  • Members
  • Location Cleveland, OH
  • XBL: 360 Died :(
  • PSN:  UnheardPhantasm

That's a really bad idea.

Posted Image


Yeah, sorry about the all green comment, I knew that it was a bad idea. -_-

Personally, I have a hard time dealing with his Bumpers. A well placed bumper can lead to some wacky rushdown. When I play this matchup, I try to keep distance, cause Bang loves to get in Litchi's...er, face. But seriously, the bumpers and FRKZ are my biggest issue.

Edited by Midnight-Zephyr, 10 April 2012 - 02:06 PM.

:KA: Mains 4 Life :ballMT:

"Morooka for P4AU"


#18 20 January 2013 - 11:26 AM

DoobyLovah
DoobyLovah

    Silver Member

  • Validating
  • Location Purgatory

That's a really bad idea.

Posted Image



An intensely bad idea.
BB: :LI:/:NL:
P4A: :ballYK:

On the bright side, Netplay doesn't mean shit and pretty much none of what you learn on netplay carries over into the real world.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users