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[CP] Tsubaki Changes and Discussion


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#1 06 August 2012 - 02:08 AM

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News and Misc. Info
Chrono Phantasma trailer
BBCP confirmed to have a PS3 port
Translated Famitsu Article on Tsubaki
BBCP Opening Movie


General game system changes:

  • Bursts now regenerate instead of preset number of bursts per match like in Continuum Shift. Using Break Burst completely depletes the OD gauge. Startup is faster.
  • Gold Burst replaced with Overdrive. Overdrive can be used with A+B+C+D when not blocking or taking damage. Temporarily powers up certain abilities. While activated, the timer countdown is stopped, and DDs have altered animations and properties. OD duration is inversely proportional to health, and canceling into OD activation reduces the active duration.

    After use, 3/4 of the OD gauge is depeleted and the OD icon becomes unusable. The OD gauge recovers with time, and OD can again be used once it has fully recovered. The OD icon starts as usable in Round 1, and carries over to successive rounds without recovering. Both players can go into OD at the same time if it is available to them.
  • Combos done while in Overdrive are un-burstable.
  • Guard Primers removed, replaced with Crush Trigger. Press 5A+B to perform an attack that can break your opponent's guard unless they're using Barrier. On Barrier Block, a large portion of the Barrier Gauge is drained, and the attacker can charge the Crush Trigger to drain more of the Barrier Gauge. Amount of barrier gauge depeleted varies between characters. Crush Triggers costs 25% Heat.
  • Air/Ground teching is now done by holding A/B/C input (like P4U) instead of mashing it.
  • Astral Heat (AH) conditions changed. You only need to have your opponent at low health and have 100 heat now. You do not need a burst or OD to use it.
  • Hitstop has been lessened and combos are intended to be shorter/faster.
  • Repeat proration is more severe, and "same attack combo" appears on the screen when repeat proration is applied. Starter affects the amount of time you have to combo with.
  • When you enter Negative Penalty your barrier gauge will automatically be reduced to zero. It will automatically begin to regenerate like normal when you exit out of negative penalty.


Tsubaki BBCP changes

Collapsed: Damage and Move Proration:

combo rate 70

5A / 300/100/ 75
5B / 520/100/ 84
5BB/ 400/100/ 80
5C / 640/100/ 89
5CC/ 620/100/ 87

2A / 300/100/ 75
2B / 400/ 90/ 80
2BB/ 480/ 90/ 80
2C / 660/ 90/ 87
2CC/ 680/100/ 87

6A / 620/ 80/ 89
6B / 480/ 90/ 92
6BB/ 560/ 90/ 92
6C /250*6/100/94
6CC/300*3/100/84

3C / 720/ 95/ 94
3CC/ 980/ 95/ 84

JA / 300/ 90/ 77
JB / 420/ 90/ 80
JBB/ 570/ 90/ 84
JC / 530/ 90/ 84
JCC/ 680/ 90/ 87

6 Throw /0,1400/100/60
4 Throw /0,1400/100/60
Air Throw/0,1400/100/60

CT /1000/ 80/100 ※Ignores character combo rate

236A/ 600/ 80/ 67
236B/ 700/ 80/ 72
236C/ 800/ 80/ 82
236D/1100/ 80/ 89
Tackle aura/280*7/ 80/ 99*7

214B/ 750/ 75/ 75
214D/1100/ 75/ 87

22B/ 600/100/ 84
22D/ 900/100/ 87
22B(Charged)/ 900/100/ 87
22D(Charged)/1200/100/ 94

623C/ 800/ 60/ 84
623D/550*3/ 70/ 82

J236A/ 800/100/ 89
A Proj/ 300/ 75/ 90
J236D/ 950/100/ 92
D Proj/ 450/ 75/100

J214A/ 500/ 90/ 67
J214B/ 650/ 90/ 72
J214C/ 800/ 90/ 82
J214D/1000/ 90/ 92
Followup ABC Dive/1000/xxx/ 82
Dive aura /240*9/ 90/ 99*9

46C/ 300/ 75/ 90
46D/ 450/ 75/100

Command throw / 0,0,80*12/ 90/100,80,64,80*11 ※960 guaranteed damage

632146B (Blade super)/8 X 450/60/96 (per hit)

236236C/300,700*3/100/ 92*4 ※Guaranteed 60,140*3

D0-236236D/300,2000/100/ 92*2 ※Guaranteed 60,600
D1-236236D/300,2250/100/ 92*2 ※Guaranteed 60,675
D2-236236D/300,2630/100/ 92*2 ※Guaranteed 60,789
D3-236236D/300,3150/100/ 92*2 ※Guaranteed 60,945
D4-236236D/300,900*5/100/ 92*6 ※Guaranteed 60,270*5
D5-236236D/300,690*9/100/ 92*10 ※Guaranteed 60,207*9

D0-236236D(OD)/300,620*4/100/ 92*5 ※Guaranteed 60,155*4
D1-236236D(OD)/300,750*4/100/ 92*5 ※Guaranteed 60,187*4
D2-236236D(OD)/300,590*7/100/ 92*8 ※Guaranteed 60,147*7
D3-236236D(OD)/300,720*7/100/ 92*8 ※Guaranteed 60,180*7
D4-236236D(OD)/300,680*10/100/ 92*11 ※Guaranteed 60,170*10
D5-236236D(OD)/300,810*10/100/ 92*11 ※Guaranteed 60,202*10

Also - Mugen provides a 110% proration bonus the first time any D special hits.


Tsubaki Overdrive info

  • Called Second Install and does automatic charge recovery while it is active.
  • you can jump cancel cancel with OD. i.e. 5bb>5cc>OD>5bb>5cc works.
  • 6A,6B,6BB,6C,6CC,2C,JCC Can be OD canceled.
  • If you activate Mugen then OD, Mugen will take priority over OD but OD will make Mugen drain slower.
  • Activating OD in the beginning of the round gives her about 2 charges.
  • Charge cancels during OD have faster recovery.


From movelist

Thanks to kidviper for what the highlights mean: Moves in pink are new, moves in blue are revised.

  • 236236D only takes one charge.
  • The 214x, 22x, 623x, and j.236x series do not have four versions anymore.
  • 214x is now 214B/D
  • 22x is now 22B/D
  • 623x is now 623C/D
  • j.236x is now j.236A/D (A version also shoots out orb)
  • 236x and j.214x still have four versions.
  • New Move: [4]6C/D - Shingi: Yami wo Ugatsu Agari (projectile; uses orb that travels straight)
  • New Move: 63214C - Shinsa: Mu he Izanau Kusari (command throw)
  • New Distortion: 632146B - Shinpatsu: Chi wo Hofuru Yaiba (calls 8 blades; in the trailer)
  • New move: 5A+B - Crush Trigger (uses 25 heat;swings her book over her head)


New moves

  • Command grab gives 2 charges if not RC'd and causes 960 dmg.
  • Crush Trigger (CT) > 6C connects
  • CT is our new 3CC for more damage ( which is pretty good, only 25% heat gauge)
  • (4)6C/D are pretty good for spacing, getting in and charging install. It could be a good tool for resetting the pressure but not too close to your opponent because you can get DP since it pushes Tsubaki a bit back.
  • You can go through her ground projectile (4)6C/D with 236D like it was j.236D > j.214D. It is projectile invulnerable in this state.


Normals

  • 5B and 6A(!) appear to be faster(?)
  • 5B looks awesome again; seems to have much less recovery.
  • 5C appears to be just as fast as in Extend.
  • 6A can cancel into new projectile(?) and is good as a starter for combos now.
  • 6B CH trips now.
  • 6BB causes a slide on opponents in the air, that you can followup off of. But nothing amazing coming out of it yet.
  • 6C downs opponent. You can charge in the air while rising, and then connect with JC afterwards!
  • 2C still a good anti-air but if you hit with it, it doesn't float enough for you to followup UNLESS you input 2CC. With the decreased hitstop, this is hard. (even a slight delay will result in 2CC whiff as you can see in videos)
  • 3C is still FC.
  • 3CC bonus proration removed but it can come out almost immediately now.
  • jCC recovery is pretty fast compared to EX and can be charge cancelled.


Drive moves

  • Charge is hard to get. Hard to start without landing a command throw.
  • Sounds like 5D/2D are exactly the same charge rate? Two Tsubaki players hit 5d and 2d at the start of a round, and both hit 5 charges at the same time.
  • jD charge rate seems like it is dependent on height? Barely get any charge from a high jump, but from a normal jump, you do.


Specials

  • 22B is definitely charge cancellable, and gives Tsubaki the charge fairly fast. Not sure for 22D.
  • 22B CH staggers now instead of causing wall-bounce.
  • 22D appears to be safer on block. Fully charged, it is + on block.
  • Charged 22D FCs and it is no longer an unblockable. However, during Mugen if it hits an opponent while they are blocking normally (not barrier blocking) it will guard crush them.
  • 214B causes a switch side after 2C (except from the corner).
  • 214D is a combo extender and lost it's invincibility.
  • 236C CH cannot be followed up with jab.. for some reason, seems like you are too far away for it to connect. Startup seems slower.
  • 236D looks just as negative on block, but it really leaves you right on top of them.
  • 236D has invincibility? Went through Taokaka's bowling ball where in Extend, it would have hit her out immediately.
  • 236X > 214D moves further (practically full screen). Link
  • People are having trouble figuring out how to followup an air hit of 236D. Old stuff like 5C doesn't work.
  • 623C isn't a projectile, and it seems to have a lot more active frames. Still possible to trade and still has a dead-zone though. May have some invul?
  • j.214x can be charge cancelled, get about .5 charge and keep oki.
  • j.214x ender has potential to cross-up. Not sure how it's done though.
  • j.214D still slides.
  • j.236A orb will disappear before it reaches the ground if Tsubaki is high enough.
  • j.236D > j.214D hits several times and then launches now, rather than holding in place with the orb effect
  • [4]6C is a level 1 projectile.


Supers

  • Her new super (632146B) appears to have invulnerable frames once she is out of her sword summoning pose but not before and is projectile invulnerable. It has full invulnerability during the little "backdash" part of her super.||Lows such as Hazama's 632146C will not catch her during this time.
  • 236236D does use your entire meter, damage was about 3300; It still doesn't have invulnerability.
  • Lvl 5 236236D minimum damage is 1800.
  • During mugen, max charge 22D guard crushes if normally guarded and charges stop dropping during hitstop.
  • Mugen provides a 110% proration bonus the first time any D special hits.


Combos

  • Combos in general are still pretty free form.
  • 6CC > Jump > JC>JCC>5C works. No charge punish combo - around 3.6-3.7k!
  • 5bb5cc623c>whiffj214d>5c>2c(c?)>aerial (midscreen 2.5k)
  • 5BB>5CC>623C>whiff>5Bhjc>JBJCC>JD>JBjc>JBJCC>J236A >J214В > 2430
  • BBCC>BBD (max charge 22D)>dash>6C>JD>JC>5C2CC>aerial
  • 5CC > 22D > 236D still works, but doesn't seem to pick up into anything. 236D bounces too low.
  • 5C CH>6CC>JCC>5C>2CC>JC>JCC>J214A
  • 5CC>623C>J236D>J214D>6C>JD>JC>5C2CC>JC>JCC>J214A > 4136
  • 5CC - 623C - j.236D - j.214D - 6C - jc - j.D - j.C - 5C - 2CC - Ender = 4.2K
  • 5CC>2.5 charge Mugen>623D>j.236D>j.214D>6C>46D>236D>214D>5C>2C>62 3C>j.236A>j.214C does 5900 damage.
  • 236C > 5a connects at point blank range
  • vs Azrael. Did 623C>J236D>J214D. crossed up. 6CC unable to reach, this is quote troublesome.
  • You can connect with 236D after 236236C. You can get about 3400 dmg. ex: 236236C>236D>5C>2CC>JC>JCC>J214A
  • 236236C>236D>5C>2CC>JC>JCC>J214A > About 3400 Damage
  • Midscreen throw, 1 charge mugen, [4]6D>236D>max charge 22d> mini dash 6cc> BBB ender. 4300 damage.
  • 623C>J214A can be followed up with 5C or 5A. Pulls 5CC 1 charge 25% heat starter to 4.5k (corner)
  • Lots of combos on this post from streams thanks to FatalCounter


Other

  • Colors: Here!
  • Charge recovery seems hard to do during combos now. Feels like, you get charges back in neutral, while the new projectile is occupying space, by landing a command throw, or using OD, and then you use them during combos. You get charges during OD or from landing the throw, but outside of that, it definitely does feel hard to acquire charges.
  • Ground Projectile and Air projectile are together limited to 1. If you do an air projectile, you can't do a ground one until it is gone, etc. D versions not checked.
  • You can use air normal charge cancel for pressure, i.e. JCC > JD > JC, but you retain the landing recovery, so it would be difficult to combo similar to short hops in P4A (but of course possible, using rapid cancels, or j.214D, etc, otherwise, on a counter, 5a should connect)
  • Relius AH on Tsubaki: http://livedoor.blog.../0/d0fed601.jpg


Tsubaki Damage Calculator


This is a damage calculator for Tsubaki from the jbbs forums (Use at your own risk). You can use it to find out Tsubaki's cokmbo damage potential in CP, however, use it at your own risk. Here is the link.

  • Type 'koromo' into the first box
  • Click the link below.
  • Click the download.

Translations:

閃 - 236x
剣 - 214x
槍 - 623x
翼 - j.214x
風 - 22x
光 - j236x
灯 - [4]6x
鎖 - 63214c
球 - Projectile from j.236X
溜 - Charged (e.g. 22x)
特殊翼 - j.236D > j.214D
特殊閃 - [4]6D > 236D
刃 - 632146B
焔 - 236236x
投げ - Throw
衣 - 214214D (koromo)
リセット - Reset



Loketest Changes



Loketest footage

Thanks to Isuna and KyushuFGC for the recordings.
Collapsed: :

[Loketest 3: Day 6] - Tsubaki vs Bullet
[Loketest 2: Day 1] - Tsubaki vs Platinum
[Loketest 1: Day 1] - Taokaka vs Tsubaki



Edited by Kiba, 27 February 2013 - 11:09 PM.

You'll always be my favorite tsundere lesbian, pk.

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#2 06 August 2012 - 02:15 AM

Daedron
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Interesting, lots of useless versions of our specials removed, hoping 623C will actually be a decent DP compared to the A-version we had.

Really interested in what the [4]6C/D and 63214C moves are used for and well, what they actually look like.
Going to bed and waking up in 8 hours, hoping to see some juicy new information :V

Vocaloids are fucking stupid.

 

@Daedron Tsu & Iza combo video: https://www.youtube....h?v=g959p98tG5w

 

Tsubaki....forever.     :TS2:

 


#3 06 August 2012 - 02:25 AM

Errol
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the charge move is a projectile.

the overdrive is automatic charge recovery while it is active.

after j.214x you can pick up the opponent with 2b.

Edited by Errol, 06 August 2012 - 02:30 AM.


#4 06 August 2012 - 02:34 AM

pktazn
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Thanks a bunch Errol :D

You'll always be my favorite tsundere lesbian, pk.

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#5 06 August 2012 - 03:29 AM

Errol
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236236D now uses 1 charge, period, not all (I think I read this somewhere)
the other new move is a command throw.
22D is no longer unblockable

#6 06 August 2012 - 03:43 AM

pktazn
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Yea Kayeff is translating some stuff on skype as well. Pretty much confirms what you've translated so far. Just re-posting what he translated (though it's mostly the same).

- 236236D only takes one charge.
- 214x becomes 214B/D
- 623x becomes 623C/D
- j.236x becomes j.236A/D
- 236x/j.214x has four types of moves still
- New move summons swords behind her that fly forward (in the video)
- after j.214x you can pick-up with 2B
- Overdrive refills her drive gauge automatically
- Overdrive into Tsubaki mugen

You'll always be my favorite tsundere lesbian, pk.

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#7 06 August 2012 - 03:43 AM

Adelheid
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No more unblocks = wow, they really want her to play totally different, or they want no one to play her.

Also as I mentioned in skype

[8:32:20 PM] A.D.A. Tsubaki's new art
[8:32:31 PM] A.D.A: Her eyes look the same as the eyes on Izayoi
[8:32:45 PM] A.D.A: Like they're just painted on
[8:32:53 PM] A.D.A: Same shading and everything

I'm really interested in that charge move projectile ε: That could be cool. And I do love me some charge moves~

#8 06 August 2012 - 04:11 AM

Errol
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214x floats on a raw hit, bounds in corner. (ie behaves like cs1)
5D and 2D feel like they have been switched around in terms of speed.
Doesn't know if you can follow up on the command throw, but it's strong
JD charge rate slowed down
Release of C projectile feels slow. Also, projectile is not that fast.
C projectile trajectory is straight forward.

all off jbbs. I don't know the twitters of anyone or how to use twitter in general.

screw 'server is busy'. I'm done

#9 06 August 2012 - 04:13 AM

pktazn
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Yeah DL is being hit hard server-wise. Again thanks for the translations, I'll add a note for the ones from jp bbs.

You'll always be my favorite tsundere lesbian, pk.

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#10 06 August 2012 - 04:48 AM

TheGreatReptar
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I hope 22D not being unblockable is a joketest change that gets switched back =[

Also, being able to follow up off of C dive sounds awesome. j.214C>2B>2CC>236B>214B>22B might be possible =D Might even be able to do 623C>j.214C whiffs into air combos into ground extensions if she gets some proration buffs/gets a really nice confirm.

#11 06 August 2012 - 05:02 AM

BatousaiJ
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Oh look, dustloop is back.

Her losing her unblockable is quite a blow since it was something that was unique to her utility wise. A command grab is an exciting addition and should make her pressure even better than before(should offset pressure woes from unblockable loss mostly).

A slow projectile is generally more desirable than quick ones as long as you can use it as a approach tool and control space to make it riskier for people to jump in on you.

Given as how Tsu's anti air is very good, forcing opponents to the air to approach you is generally a good thing footsie wise(I.E throw a projectile and start 2D waiting to 2C if they try to jump in).

Like Dae pointed out, many of our specials having less variations is generally a positive sign since they'll focus the positive aspects of the specials and boil them down into less variations making them more useful.

That overcharge for Tsu is actually that DD that I've been wishing Tsu to get which is the ability to get charge in a bunch quickly or natively without any down time and a awesome addition.

Lastly, the j.214x to 2B continuation is incredible. Simply put, it means that almost every hit you get in the air can be hitconfirmable into a combo which is huge. It seems like a small change but honestly, it's probably the biggest deal out of all the changes for the positive side.

Anyhow, I'd suggest to all you excitable people that things will most certainly change during loketest so take everything with a grain of salt and don't get too disheartened/excited.

#12 06 August 2012 - 05:05 AM

Surf
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I wonder what the animation for her command grab is. And curious on why the versions of her specials were taken away. Also note that her Drive Gauge doesn't have segments anymore. It's just a bar

#13 06 August 2012 - 05:16 AM

pktazn
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I honestly don't mind that most of the versions of her specials were taken away since we only used like... one, maybe two versions for most of them anyway.

That's interesting for the missing segments though it's probably just hard to see them since the video quality isn't all that great and Rachel still has the segments for her wind bar. If not it could mean that we'll just have to fill it more before getting one charge.

Edited by pktazn, 06 August 2012 - 05:19 AM.

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#14 06 August 2012 - 05:22 AM

TheGreatReptar
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Tsubaki still had a 3 on her charge gauge while doing the new super with the swords. I want to say they just look really faint, but it could just be my brain putting them there since I want them there...lol.

And the only problem I see with versions of moves being taken away is that it's harder to avoid SMP on like 22X for standard chargeless corner combos, but she'll probably have something new anyway.

#15 06 August 2012 - 05:23 AM

Surf
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Yea I'm guessing the bar has to be filled up all the way now. And I'm for certain the bar no longer has segments. I agree with a lot of what Batousai said and I'm generally okay with the lose of 22D unblockables. I'm sure the command grab and projectile will make up for it. Here's to hoping her 22D becomes + on block again at least

#16 06 August 2012 - 05:34 AM

pktazn
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I'm still iffy on the segments/no segments because of the video quality and Rachel's wind bar. Rachel definitely still has segments for hers (if you watch it during her part it actually changes and you see it go down by one) and they're not noticeable either. But this is still the joketest so regardless of whether it's segmented or not, it may or may not happen in the final version which is still a ways away.

Edited by pktazn, 06 August 2012 - 05:43 AM.
Clarified last sentence

You'll always be my favorite tsundere lesbian, pk.

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#17 06 August 2012 - 05:37 AM

Surf
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I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. From the bbs, it seems that 5B and 5C are relatively unchanged. Also seems like 623C has quite a bit of invincibility

Edited by Surf, 06 August 2012 - 05:45 AM.


#18 06 August 2012 - 05:52 AM

TheGreatReptar
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Gahh ;-; Fubarduck, Jan and Jiyuna are all going over to the location test. None of them play Tsubaki D:

#19 06 August 2012 - 05:59 AM

Surf
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That's unfortunate. Her bbs is lacking in info compared to some of the other characters as well.

#20 06 August 2012 - 06:04 AM

pktazn
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Oh well. :( The loketests are going on all week I believe so there's plenty of time for new info. Updated the OP with what Surfeit posted and now I'm off to bed. Night fellow Tsubakas~

You'll always be my favorite tsundere lesbian, pk.

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#21 06 August 2012 - 06:06 AM

TheGreatReptar
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Didn't Bang and Litchi not see a lot of play during CS1's loketests then end up busted? I see not a lot of play during a loketest as a good thing #Kappa

#22 06 August 2012 - 06:14 AM

Surf
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The loketests are going on all week I believe so there's plenty of time for new info.


More than enough time for maybe a video or two to show up. Gotta stay optimistic. These projectile really interests me though. Maybe it'll contribute to making charging safer like Batousai mentioned

#23 06 August 2012 - 07:07 AM

abadlime
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Ouch. No unblockable sucks. I'm glad her DP got better inv. and i like that her j.214x can be followed up.

Who r u? Owner?

with a name like badlime you already know he has self-esteem issues!

and there's no way you're as cute as Lich, so that mistake makes no sense

Celica


#24 06 August 2012 - 09:34 AM

Lurrdoc
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Ouch. No unblockable sucks. I'm glad her DP got better inv. and i like that her j.214x can be followed up.


This sums up everything I wanted to mention.

And also. Just thinking of the possibility of 623C>j.236A>j.214x>2B off a DP on wake-up is delicious.
even if it might only work on CH. still delicious.
:TS2:tsubakihiko:ballAK:

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#25 06 August 2012 - 10:58 AM

GenoWhirl
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Who needs unblockables when you got a command grab

#26 06 August 2012 - 01:20 PM

Airk
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Who needs unblockables when you got a command grab


I do. More options = better. :) Besides, the two options are relevant at very different times. One wonders what the point of 22D will be if it can't be unblockable though; I'm going to be really sad if it's just "yeah, this has better proration".

Anyway, if the bar has no segments, it probably just means they've gone to a "marvel style meter" for it - i.e. you charge the bar up the whole way and then the number next to it goes up and the bar becomes empty. Strictly cosmetic.

Thx Mori.


#27 06 August 2012 - 03:05 PM

Adelheid
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Realistically a command grab is significantly better than an unblockable for the game I always tried to run with Tsubaki. It lacks the ability to do full combos to unblockable resets but I can live with that loss given everything else she's getting.

#28 06 August 2012 - 03:14 PM

BatousaiJ
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The higher the level the opponent and more match up experience they have, the more difficult it is to land an unblockable.

It's fun whooping newbies and average players with the unblockable but it's use was a bit limited against better opponents. Command grab on the other hand is just plainly good versus everyone so it's a fair trade off.

I'm sad to see it go if it is indeed going to be gone in the final version but we'll see how that works out since it seems you can still charge 22B/D so I don't think they're dead set on getting rid of unblockable just yet.

#29 06 August 2012 - 03:14 PM

Surf
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Like Errol mentioned before it looks like her command grab is very strong. A lot of the players on the bbs are talking about it. But it's a bit hard to understand exactly what their discussing

#30 06 August 2012 - 03:18 PM

BatousaiJ
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The real question is her follow up option after it.

Can you do anything after you land it? In midscreen, in corner?

If not, can you with the use of overdrive/RC and how good is the proration of it to make it worth while to overdrive/RC afterwards.




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