Jump to content


New to Fighters


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 08 October 2012 - 12:31 PM

Yuel
Yuel

    New Blood

  • Members
I've recently started playing BBCS:EX/P4A and I'm lost at where to start learning to better myself. I've read tons and tons of threads on the forums here, but it's all really overwhelming and I just don't understand where I'm supposed to start. For the time being I just go on P4 ranked and play for the basics. I know this is going to seem like a stupid question, but can anyone tell me a structured way to learn? Like what I should be doing chronologically because I just keep jumping around with random stuff I see and I really don't feel like it's helping. I have plenty of time to play though and have high interests right now so I'm willing to do a lot just to learn these fighters (P4 at the moment). Besides that, my main is Mitsuru if you have any additional tips for playing her. (I mainly play footsies and try to poke a lot with 5As, oops.)

#2 08 October 2012 - 01:01 PM

Silmerion
Silmerion

    Positively Spinning

  • Members
  • Twitter: Silmerion
  • Location Columbus, OH
So, I don't actually recommend diving headfirst into matches. Take a few days, maybe a week or so, and only ever play in Training Mode. The first things you should practice are your pokes and your combos, but there's some other stuff you should check out too: take a look at my Training Mode guide for tips on how to practice attacks, combos, and more as effectively as possible.

After you've done that, it's time to take your experience to the ring! Unfortunately, if you're anything like me, you'll immediately find that you're suddenly too nervous to do combos and you'll just spaz out and lose. This is, I think, natural! It's just your nerves. From here on out, you ought to be splitting your time between repping your combos, pressure, etc. in Training Mode and learning how to apply them in actual matches.

After your nerves have calmed down, you feel more or less in control of your character, and you can do your character's B&Bs without having to think too much, start analyzing how you move. Movement is actually pretty complicated in airdash fighters; I don't know if you're coming from SF-style games or not, but even if you aren't, this guide is pretty much all about how to play footsies in GG/P4A/BBCS:EX.

Also, watch lots and lots of videos.

Edited by Silmerion, 08 October 2012 - 01:06 PM.

:AX:
:ballLB: :ballAI:

#3 08 October 2012 - 03:41 PM

Celerity
Celerity

    Professional Necrodancer

  • Moderators
  • Location Indianapolis, IN
  • PSN:  ItsCelerity
Pretty much just stick to one character, in one game, for at least a week or two. P4A is probably the easier game to start with. Practice your character's normals and specials in training mode until they feel like an extension of your body. If you're new to fighting games, this could take a very long time (multiple days), but that's fine. You need to know what your character is capable of, or else you'll just start mashing when it comes to actual gameplay. After that, worry about basic combos. You don't need to do the combos that are too difficult to you; just leave those alone until later. Find maybe 5 combos off of practical hitconfirms that you like, and go use them in netplay/arcade mode/against friends. Again, DON'T WORRY about learning a ton of new combos. You've got your arsenal for awhile.

For the next week+, alternate between playing real matches and training mode. In training mode, DO NOT practice new combos. Instead, work on your known combos, practice simple things like IAD (Instant Airdash), air turn (for P4A), and general movement until you feel fully in control. Set the training dummy to COM 60-100 and just practice blocking its attacks. Figure out its patterns and when you need to block low or high. New players like you will use similar tactics to the AI, so try practicing against a character that you have trouble with. Practice rolling, DPing, and jumping out of pressure. Every time you do some netplay and feel stonewalled against a certain character, come back here and practice against the computer, or record the dummy to perform some action and figure out how to beat it.

I actually disagree with the advice about watching videos, at least for the first few weeks. You won't understand what's going on. Just do these basic things until you are comfortable with every facet of your character, from basic offense to basic defense. After this, you will be prepared enough to learn more advanced situation-appropriate combos, or pick up a new character in a different game. For each new character you pick up, this process will become faster and faster, because you're applying your newfound fighting game knowledge. Rebel up!

You'll know you're doing the 5C right if it looks fucking awesome.

 

BBCP: :IZ: :RA:
P4AU: Marie / Rise
UNIB: Vatista


#4 08 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

TransientFaith
TransientFaith

    おいしいですの

  • Members
  • Location Plano, TX

I actually disagree with the advice about watching videos, at least for the first few weeks. You won't understand what's going on. Just do these basic things until you are comfortable with every facet of your character, from basic offense to basic defense. After this, you will be prepared enough to learn more advanced situation-appropriate combos, or pick up a new character in a different game. For each new character you pick up, this process will become faster and faster, because you're applying your newfound fighting game knowledge. Rebel up!


I'll second this. Watching videos is more for 1) learning neutral prior to experiencing the game, so you can develop an idea of how you think you want to play the character, or if you want to play the character (subject to change after playing the game), 2) learning new tricks/options after experiencing the game so you can improve your foundation. It doesn't do that well for true beginners since they probably don't know what to look for at their play level (heck even I don't know what to look for sometimes and I'm not exactly a beginner...)

it's okay man
your da bess stalker


#5 08 October 2012 - 04:38 PM

KayEff
KayEff

    balegdah

  • Moderators
  • Twitter: SomeGuyCalledKF
  • XBL: i'm poor
  • PSN:  KF-Ship5

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
if you're planning on playing ragna in BBCSEX, you should check out this sweet kickass guide that i put together

mmm


#6 08 October 2012 - 04:52 PM

WolfCrimson
WolfCrimson

    CARNAGE SCISSORS!!

  • Members
  • PSN:  WolfCrimson

if you're planning on playing ragna in BBCSEX, you should check out this sweet kickass guide that i put together


What... what have I been doing all these years? I have been playing Ragna wrong all this time... but that guide has shown me the LIGHT!

P.S. It's 623C not 62C3.

Hype values are unaffected by proration.


#7 08 October 2012 - 04:56 PM

Silmerion
Silmerion

    Positively Spinning

  • Members
  • Twitter: Silmerion
  • Location Columbus, OH

if you're planning on playing ragna in BBCSEX, you should check out this sweet kickass guide that i put together

brb taking every spot on the Ragna leaderboard simultaneously
:AX:
:ballLB: :ballAI:

#8 09 October 2012 - 01:59 AM

Yuel
Yuel

    New Blood

  • Members
Okay! Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll go in training mode and go practice more of my moveset now. So would you suggest just trying out a couple of combos on the combo threads and seeing which one that I like best out of all the starters (simple ones of course)? By the way, how do I pressure with Mitsuru? Maybe I don't actually understand what pressuring actually is? The games I've played may have little meaning at the moment, but I certainly had a hard time playing against Kanjis and Labryses... I'll just focus on basic stuff first though and then practice blocking and punishing.

So, I don't actually recommend diving headfirst into matches. Take a few days, maybe a week or so, and only ever play in Training Mode. The first things you should practice are your pokes and your combos, but there's some other stuff you should check out too: take a look at my Training Mode guide for tips on how to practice attacks, combos, and more as effectively as possible.


I'll take a look at it, thanks!

#9 09 October 2012 - 02:18 AM

Osuna
Osuna

    Deity

  • Members
I disagree with the notion that fighting the AI constitutes practice since it encourages bad habits and requires you to relearn the game later, which is difficult, tedious and unnecessary.

I think for someone new it is best to get a mentor. Someone knowledgeable to answer questions as they come up and give feedback. Anyone new to fighters will have a lot of questions and sometimes not even know what it is they are trying to ask without someone's help. It is faster and more concise to have a rapport with someone than have to post and wait in the beginner forums for every single thing.

Maybe check out the match finder threads to see if there is someone local up to the task.
Pm me if you're in/near Battle ground or Vancouver WA. There has to be Someone...right?

#10 09 October 2012 - 05:17 AM

Circuitous
Circuitous

    Burliest of Hearts

  • Administrators
  • Twitter: @Circuitous
  • Location Rising Sun, IN
  • XBL: Circuitous
  • PSN:  Circuitous

Awards Bar:

Users Awards
Playing AI is okay in small doses, since they can force you to react to a situation in a way that can't be emulated in solo practice. Once you start noticing their patterns, you've wasted your time.

As for getting better in general... play. It's an arcade game, that's how it works. Play more people, play as often as you can. If you come up against a hard spot, ask for help (which you've done!) or dive into training mode to find ways around it.

#11 09 October 2012 - 05:58 AM

DynastyK
DynastyK

    Legit Member

  • Members
  • Location Riverside, CA
  • XBL: NeonDestroyer
  • PSN:  MrDynastyK
Since you're playing BBCS:EX/P4A, if you haven't already, check up with the character's challenge mode. One, it shows you your character's specials and what kind of combos they have in from basic to advanced, and two, this is the biggest factor of if you decide to stick with the character or not. While those combos aren't optimal, it's that baby step that you improve on after becoming familiar with them. Also, it is important to be consistant with your combos rather than go for very fancy ones, as if you drop one of those, it may end up spilling regret. Another thing is that once you are familiar with the character, ask for a set of matches with another player of that character like Osuna has mentioned who can teach you how to play and etc. Those few steps I would recommend to start off with first. Everything else can be added once you become more comfortable. It's all about the baby steps and just playing more.
BB Main :TS:
P4A Main: :ballNA:

#12 09 October 2012 - 06:06 AM

Adelheid
Adelheid

    Oh? Are you broken already?

  • Moderators
  • Location Redmond, WA
  • XBL: Adelheid Stark
  • PSN:  Adelheid_Stark

Since you're playing BBCS:EX/P4A, if you haven't already, check up with the character's challenge mode. One, it shows you your character's specials and what kind of combos they have in from basic to advanced, and two, this is the biggest factor of if you decide to stick with the character or not.


... Eh...? I don't think most people really consider how their combos flow when picking their characters. Challenge mode doesn't exactly go over neutral game, pokes, and setups, which are more typically what you would care about when playing a character. There's a few examples of, oh you can tailor combos to accomplish X goal besides damage/knockdown, but by and large you don't learn that from challenge mode. If you're trying to figure out who to play, the best idea is to really just play a few matches and get the hang of how a character moves and feels to you, maybe watch some videos to see how they function at high level play.

Purely for the purpose of figuring out who you want to play, I don't think it's really exactly necessary to learn combos more complicated than "do whatever into knockdown." Efficiency and damage per hit doesn't really matter for getting a feel for your character, and while combos can at least give extra metergain for giving you tools, any way to practice that isn't actual serious match play is going to be an abstraction to some degree anyway.

Edited by Adelheid, 09 October 2012 - 06:09 AM.


#13 09 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

Yuel
Yuel

    New Blood

  • Members
Well, everyone has differing opinions on the matter so far and that's fine, though I don't mind just playing matches for fun even if I lose so I'll continue playing a bit on the side. I've started practicing combos in training and got stuck on #16 for Mitsuru's challenge. I'll just continue to practice combos everyday until I get used to doing them and gradually play more. I suppose my other questions on what I should be doing during an actual match would be better suited for someone that can teach me Mitsuru?

I disagree with the notion that fighting the AI constitutes practice since it encourages bad habits and requires you to relearn the game later, which is difficult, tedious and unnecessary.

I think for someone new it is best to get a mentor. Someone knowledgeable to answer questions as they come up and give feedback. Anyone new to fighters will have a lot of questions and sometimes not even know what it is they are trying to ask without someone's help. It is faster and more concise to have a rapport with someone than have to post and wait in the beginner forums for every single thing.

Maybe check out the match finder threads to see if there is someone local up to the task.


I don't really have a means of transportation and I don't think my parents would be happy about inviting someone over that I don't know ;_;. Do you think teaching online would be possible?

#14 09 October 2012 - 01:15 PM

Silmerion
Silmerion

    Positively Spinning

  • Members
  • Twitter: Silmerion
  • Location Columbus, OH

I don't really have a means of transportation and I don't think my parents would be happy about inviting someone over that I don't know ;_;. Do you think teaching online would be possible?

Probably? At least maybe. As far as I know Dustloop don't have a dedicated thread for it so you'll have to poke around a bit, but there are a couple of places you can ask:

1) Your appropriate match finder thread in the P4A Online Play subforum;
2) Your character's subforum.

Edited by Silmerion, 09 October 2012 - 01:24 PM.

:AX:
:ballLB: :ballAI:

#15 09 October 2012 - 08:50 PM

CupofT
CupofT

    Beverage Maker

  • Members
  • Location Waterloo, ON

I don't really have a means of transportation and I don't think my parents would be happy about inviting someone over that I don't know ;_;. Do you think teaching online would be possible?


Probably? At least maybe. As far as I know Dustloop don't have a dedicated thread for it so you'll have to poke around a bit, but there are a couple of places you can ask:

1) Your appropriate match finder thread in the P4A Online Play subforum;
2) Your character's subforum.


As Darago says, just poke around the forums he mentioned. In some character subforums, there are threads dedicated for people who critique other people's matches.
Also I'm sure there are many people here on Dustloop who have headsets and can teach you through player matches.

#16 09 October 2012 - 10:25 PM

Osuna
Osuna

    Deity

  • Members

Well, everyone has differing opinions on the matter so far and that's fine, though I don't mind just playing matches for fun even if I lose so I'll continue playing a bit on the side. I've started practicing combos in training and got stuck on #16 for Mitsuru's challenge. I'll just continue to practice combos everyday until I get used to doing them and gradually play more. I suppose my other questions on what I should be doing during an actual match would be better suited for someone that can teach me Mitsuru?

I don't really have a means of transportation and I don't think my parents would be happy about inviting someone over that I don't know ;_;. Do you think teaching online would be possible?

You can do stuff online, but you really should check out those match finder threads anyway. Someone literally spent like 6 years in walking distance from my house before he tried to find someone because he didn't have transportation. Another time someone spent a year not playing because they couldn't drive and had moved to a new area, but they could have been car pooling to events pretty much the whole time.

It isn't that much work to look and be heard. In nothing else it might get you another online contact.

Also don't put Too much effort into challenge mode. It is useful to learn some concepts and applications of moves you might not have thought of, but sometimes an application will be completely and totally unnecessary in the long run. Learn what you can about the way things fit together and don't worry if you can't do everything consistently, since they aren't the 'real' combos usually.

Definitely find a mitsuru player to learn from, if you can.
Pm me if you're in/near Battle ground or Vancouver WA. There has to be Someone...right?

#17 10 October 2012 - 12:36 AM

reaVer
reaVer

    Deity

  • Members

So, I don't actually recommend diving headfirst into matches. Take a few days, maybe a week or so, and only ever play in Training Mode. The first things you should practice are your pokes and your combos, but there's some other stuff you should check out too: take a look at my Training Mode guide for tips on how to practice attacks, combos, and more as effectively as possible.

After you've done that, it's time to take your experience to the ring! Unfortunately, if you're anything like me, you'll immediately find that you're suddenly too nervous to do combos and you'll just spaz out and lose. This is, I think, natural! It's just your nerves. From here on out, you ought to be splitting your time between repping your combos, pressure, etc. in Training Mode and learning how to apply them in actual matches.

After your nerves have calmed down, you feel more or less in control of your character, and you can do your character's B&Bs without having to think too much, start analyzing how you move. Movement is actually pretty complicated in airdash fighters; I don't know if you're coming from SF-style games or not, but even if you aren't, this guide is pretty much all about how to play footsies in GG/P4A/BBCS:EX.

Also, watch lots and lots of videos.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2yqUpypQwGs

Quite frankly, the sooner you dive into matches the better. Yes, you will lose(a LOT), but the purpose here is to get a feel for the game, to learn how to move, when to move, to see where you can hit and where you cannot. Once you learned how to place hits and defend yourself, then you should look into "what gets me high rewards out of the hits I'm getting", I recommend starting with the hit you get the most first and then follow it down the line. As you're a beginner, you probably want to stick with combos that do good damage yet are simple to execute; if the previous is not possible you will want to look for combos that if the opponent techs them, he's in a bad position. Once you got passed this, you can start reading on techniques and implementing them. Famous one found in the arcsys game is FD braking (back + 2 buttons), followed by option selects, backdash practice and what not.

Doing it like this allows you to think towards what works and doesn't work and allows you to take the game the way it is. In general, it allows you to learn quite fast and develop good gamesense that allows you to plan a bit further ahead than "THE OPPONENT IS POUNDING MY GUARD, WTF DO I DO NOW?". If you start off in training mode, what often will happen is that you learn the BnBs, try to implement them and then realize you're not actually getting the hits you need; then when you finally do get a hit, you will be in complete shock and miss the combo afterwards! So really, if you can you should avoid training mode unless you found yourself in a spot where you know what to experiment with.

#18 10 October 2012 - 05:45 AM

Yuel
Yuel

    New Blood

  • Members
So what I've gotten out of this thread is that I should be learning my spacing, how my character works, my moveset, to learn how to guard/punish, and some basic combos on my favorite hit confirms that any newcomer can pull off with practice (regardless of the methods). Any more specific questions and to learn more in general should be sought out by finding a Mitsuru mentor. If there's anything else I'm missing out of those (I'm sure there is more, but just the basics here), let me know, but I think I can pretty much wrap this thread up now. Thanks for the help! I think the fighting games community has been the most helpful by far out of any gaming category I've tried to pick up. (Though I have to say it is one of the harder ones to pick up, atleast for me.)

You can do stuff online, but you really should check out those match finder threads anyway. Someone literally spent like 6 years in walking distance from my house before he tried to find someone because he didn't have transportation. Another time someone spent a year not playing because they couldn't drive and had moved to a new area, but they could have been car pooling to events pretty much the whole time.

It isn't that much work to look and be heard. In nothing else it might get you another online contact.

Also don't put Too much effort into challenge mode. It is useful to learn some concepts and applications of moves you might not have thought of, but sometimes an application will be completely and totally unnecessary in the long run. Learn what you can about the way things fit together and don't worry if you can't do everything consistently, since they aren't the 'real' combos usually.

Definitely find a mitsuru player to learn from, if you can.


I think I might be able to start driving soon. Not entirely sure on that yet, but if I can, I'll definitely ask around.

#19 13 October 2012 - 08:46 PM

Osuna
Osuna

    Deity

  • Members
Ask around even if you can't. It couldn't hurt, you'll likely at least find someone with a good online connection. People miss out on tons of events and gaming partners because they don't ask. We have handy dandy threads to make it pretty easy to ask around and fine local people too.
Pm me if you're in/near Battle ground or Vancouver WA. There has to be Someone...right?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users