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[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion (Pre-Console Release)


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#1 14 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

zeth07
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*Note* - When browsing the Azrael forums please follow the rules of the site, failure to do so will result in a Infraction. If you do not know the rules you can check them here -> Site Rules.

Gameplay Discussion Only Please!:



Things To Do List (as of 10/23/13):
  • -Go over some aspects of the threads/Wiki again, and adjust as needed.
  • -Make Critique Thread for console release.
  • -Create "Basic" and "In-Depth Character Tutorial" Video/s, not just covering combos.


Things Done List (as of 10/23/13):
Collapsed: :

  • -Make changes to the combo thread. (10/23/13)
  • -Update video thread. (10/22/13)
  • -Make Match-up Threads. (10/22/13)
  • -FULL Update of Video Thread 1st post. (8/21/13)
  • -Update Video Thread 1st post. (7/1/13)
  • -Create Azrael General Discussion Group.
  • -Added FAQ section to the Character Overview thread. (5/23/13)
  • -Cleaned up some portions of the threads. (5/21/13)
  • -Possibly make separate "Character Guide" Thread, to cover gameplay strategies. (5/21/13)
  • -Revamped "Link" section in the Combo Thread. (05/19/13)
  • -Added a "Pressure" section in the Combo Thread/Wiki, re-titled to reflect this.
  • -Update Video/Player List (05/16/13).
  • -Change Wiki graphics as needed once data/game is released.
  • -Update 1st post of Video Thread (04/15/13).
  • -Update Frame Data with full translated info.
  • -Possibly restructure Video Thread.
  • -Add Full Frame Data from Mook, besides needed translations.
  • -Add Basic Frame Data from Mook.
  • -Update Video Thread in full as of most recent postings. (03/18/2013)
  • -Adjusted Video Thread and Combo Thread "formatting" for easier browsing.
  • -Do combo notation for Valiant Charger combo video, add any combos not already in thread.
  • -Removed some clutter from "Character Overview" Thread, added more Pros/Cons.
  • -Get base information of Azrael Wiki added.
  • -Revamped the Basic Combo section in the Combo Thread.
  • -Make changes to Combo Theory section in Combo Thread.
  • -Clean-up Combo Thread.
  • -Make new sticky/locked thread for Azrael "Guide" "Read Here First" (General Thread 1st Post now).
  • -Reorganize Combo Thread.
  • -Do combo notation for the 2 other recent combo videos and add to the Combo Thread.
  • -Make some organization changes to Video Thread player list again.

Edited by zeth07, 23 October 2013 - 09:27 PM.


#2 14 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

Kurushii
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I believe the correct name for the drive is "The Terror". I have some of my own notes at home ill add and clean this up some when I get off work.

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#3 14 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

zeth07
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I believe the correct name for the drive is "The Terror". I have some of my own notes at home ill add and clean this up some when I get off work.


Thanks, I'm still going through it myself since a lot of it is redundant since I was just putting all the info together at first. But every little bit helps.

#4 14 November 2012 - 10:24 PM

DaiAndOh
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Valiant charger reminds me of boost from HnK in looks.

Oddly enough, OP doesn't mention is dash being a teleport dash.

DaiAndOh - All this time I thought you were that black(?) guy in your avatar.

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#5 14 November 2012 - 10:46 PM

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#6 14 November 2012 - 10:59 PM

Amadeous
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I asked this on Twitter but never got a surefire answer, so if we have ANYONE in Japan who can test this it'd be cool.

Basically I know that, in GG, Slayer can cancel the startup of his backdash with a jump, then cancel the jump startup with a special move. This lets him use special moves while retaining the invincibility of his backdash. This is called a "Backdash Cancel", and it is a very strong, albeit difficult technique for Slayer players.

Now, since Azrael has the same teleport-type dash as Slayer does, I'm wondering if the BB engine is similar enough to the GG engine to allow a similar sort of Backdash Cancel. If we have anyone that can test this, it would be awesome.

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#7 14 November 2012 - 11:01 PM

zeth07
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I asked this on Twitter but never got a surefire answer, so if we have ANYONE in Japan who can test this it'd be cool.

Basically I know that, in GG, Slayer can cancel the startup of his backdash with a jump, then cancel the jump startup with a special move. This lets him use special moves while retaining the invincibility of his backdash. This is called a "Backdash Cancel", and it is a very strong, albeit difficult technique for Slayer players.

Now, since Azrael has the same teleport-type dash as Slayer does, I'm wondering if the BB engine is similar enough to the GG engine to allow a similar sort of Backdash Cancel. If we have anyone that can test this, it would be awesome.


Apparently his back dash cannot be jump cancelled but his forward dash can. It is in the info from the post but maybe it was lost in there as you were reading it the first time. I went and made his movement it's own section with that part in there probably as you were typing that.

#8 14 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

Amadeous
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Alright, cool, and thanks. It was just something I was a little curious on, and not sure if it was overlooked.

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#9 14 November 2012 - 11:08 PM

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Zeth for Azrael mod, I see it in flashing neon lights :3


His dashes look incredibly strong. I'm curious as to how his damage will rake up compared to previous versions of Hakumen and CP Hakumen. Based off the loketest, Tager is going to have a REALLY hard time magnetizing him.

The post about slayer movements soudns interesting, now I now why slayers moves come out of the blue and so safe x[

If they can take everything they've learned from the online modes for BB and further refine their already stellar netcode, they might just make having people over obsolete.

 

 


#10 14 November 2012 - 11:41 PM

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So he has like 4 overhead options from neutral and a divekick. Throw in slayer dash, UB set-ups, and a reversal and you have got a scary character.

#11 15 November 2012 - 12:23 AM

YukiBlue
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I just wish he had Slayers' boss walk. The animation is just too godlike.
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#12 15 November 2012 - 12:32 AM

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So he has like 4 overhead options from neutral and a divekick. Throw in slayer dash, UB set-ups, and a reversal and you have got a scary character.


One of those gound overheads looks really unsafe on block though.

If they can take everything they've learned from the online modes for BB and further refine their already stellar netcode, they might just make having people over obsolete.

 

 


#13 15 November 2012 - 03:50 AM

Juunee
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Just gotta RC it then. Especially if it leaves you airborne since they're then in the additional stand-up or get hit by the empty jump low mix-up.

#14 15 November 2012 - 05:29 AM

Kurushii
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Massive overhaul of the opening post. /done

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#15 15 November 2012 - 09:54 AM

SoWL
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Great job with all those screenshots, I should do it with Bullet's moves.

#16 15 November 2012 - 04:45 PM

DaiAndOh
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Excellent job with OP! Vids in one week too!

DaiAndOh - All this time I thought you were that black(?) guy in your avatar.

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#17 15 November 2012 - 06:27 PM

YukiBlue
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What do you think about Azrael's "Divekick" (We may aswel just refer to it as that outside of notation tbh).

I'd love to think we can combo off it on a regular hit, seriously. I know it won't be anywhere as good as it is in SF, But I'm trying to kid myself it's going to be one of his strong pressure reset tools. Can we dream?
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#18 15 November 2012 - 06:36 PM

Kurushii
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I wonder if it's chargeable or does it always have that long set startup. I wouldn't be surprised if you have to land the hit in the middle to lower section of the opponents hitbox to get a good followup combo. I think his j.2D is more dreamy than the dive kick. Reminds me of C.Viper's flame kick. With such a wide hitbox be great for crossups.

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#19 15 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

YukiBlue
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Yeah the start up looked pretty chunky. Maybe it could be used for some fake crossup tricky much like Jin's IAD xx EX Swords. Making them block a crossup etc.

That would be decent, if only we knew it's hit stun.
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#20 15 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

zeth07
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What do you think about Azrael's "Divekick" (We may aswel just refer to it as that outside of notation tbh).

I'd love to think we can combo off it on a regular hit, seriously. I know it won't be anywhere as good as it is in SF, But I'm trying to kid myself it's going to be one of his strong pressure reset tools. Can we dream?


It seems like you can combo off it if it is Air to Ground. But Air to Air it will knockdown, just think of it like Bang's j.C I guess. I'm almost positive I saw someone combo after it when the opponent was on the ground. EDIT: It also won't be as good as it would seem simply because of BB's tech system, also that delay before he comes down really kills it in terms of really putting on good pressure with it. I guess we'll see how it turns out though.

I wonder if it's chargeable or does it always have that long set startup. I wouldn't be surprised if you have to land the hit in the middle to lower section of the opponents hitbox to get a good followup combo. I think his j.2D is more dreamy than the dive kick. Reminds me of C.Viper's flame kick. With such a wide hitbox be great for crossups.


j.2D does seem really good. From the videos I think one of the Azrael's was really spamming it, not to mention if it hits he gets the Lower Weakness added to the opponent.

EDIT: Finished adding all the info I found for now.

Edited by zeth07, 15 November 2012 - 07:39 PM.


#21 15 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

YukiBlue
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If it's as good as Bang's j.C I'll be super happy.

Any ideas about his average damage output? His simple combos in Loketest's looked like they did really solid damage, I can't wait to see him get fleshed out over these next few months.

I'm going to get as much info about this character as I can. Really interested in him. If I find anything I'll PM Zeth or something.
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#22 15 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

Kurushii
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If you find something just post it here. :3

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#23 15 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

zeth07
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If it's as good as Bang's j.C I'll be super happy.

Any ideas about his average damage output? His simple combos in Loketest's looked like they did really solid damage, I can't wait to see him get fleshed out over these next few months.

I'm going to get as much info about this character as I can. Really interested in him. If I find anything I'll PM Zeth or something.


Without any weakpoints, it seems like over 2.5k. With weakpoints it seems like over 3k-3.5k can happen. With meter and weakpoints it is definitely over 3.5k-4k+.

Examples:
Combo off 5A, possibly with no weakpoint did 3k.
Combo off Throw with weakpoint did 3.8k
Combo off charged Valiant Crash with BOTH weakpoints did 4.3k METERLESS
Combo off 5BB with 50% did over 4k.
Combo off 5A with weakpoint with 50% did 4.2k.

Edited by zeth07, 15 November 2012 - 09:15 PM.


#24 15 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

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Very good damage output. I can imagine him having some devastating punishes from strong starters, excited to get into detail with this dude.
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#25 16 November 2012 - 10:45 PM

Scottie Yosh
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Love that dash..

#26 17 November 2012 - 01:05 AM

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You can jump cancel forward dash? Yup, gonna play this character. stuff is gonna be op.

Think about it.

Land a move for knockdown. Forward dash through opponent, 9 jump toward him, j.2D for meaty cross up, get low weak point. Screw you inferno divider hahaha.
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#27 17 November 2012 - 08:56 AM

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I played about 100 games on the recent loketest with Azrael, some additions and opinions:

Drive properties with weakpoint applied:
j.D, j.2D - ground bounces
2D - knockdown which can be followed up (similar to hakumens 3C on counter hit for example)

236D and 214D aren't unblockable even with weakpoints applied and/or fully charged.
236236D - Standing unblockable with upper weak point and crouching unblockable with lower weakpoint. So you know what happens with both weakpoints applied, right? Can still be air barrier guarded though.

Azraels combos are mostly links like AC Slayer, but much easier.
You probably want to finish with a weakpoint whenever you can, even if you have to use some tension or sacrifice some damage.

Valiant Charger combos does not only good damage, you can also carry your opponent into the corner regardless where you are.
Combos I used with red weakpoint applied:
Front or Back Throw > 236D > 6 > (5C>6) *2 > Crash Trigger > j.B > j.C > dj.D (about 3900 damage and weakpoint reapplied for 25%)
5BB > 236A > RC > 236D > 6 > (5C>6) *4 > Crash Trigger > j.B > j.C > dj.D (75% combo, can't remember the damage, probably 4400 or so)

His forward step doesn't seem to have any invincibility, even if it looks like it does. It's like a fast, small ranged teleport, so it can still be used to dodge projectiles if you time it right. Able to cross up even with opponent in the corner.
His backstep has plenty of invincibility and is also very fast. Felt almost a little bit broken imo.

edit: i meant "invincibility" not "invisibility"

Edited by yonah, 17 November 2012 - 07:59 PM.

Sorry for my crappy English.

#28 17 November 2012 - 10:30 AM

YukiBlue
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Thank you so much for the information!

The ability to Dash through people in the corner sounds pretty big tbh. It's sounding like a strong mixup tool in all honesty, and that backdash. I'm hoping it's like Tager's.

Thanks again for that information, those throw combos look awesome.
:AZ: :SL:

I start UMVC3, there are very hard combo. I hear footdive everyday


#29 17 November 2012 - 06:17 PM

zeth07
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Thank you for all the information. Will add everything and make the needed changes.

#30 17 November 2012 - 06:26 PM

Kurushii
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Wow, thanks for the info. His dash sounds more and more amazing :O

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