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#1 04 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

Okidoki_Sir
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Hey everyone,

first of all: If this is not the best place for the following stuff, please redirect me to a better one.

I grabbed BB:SE for my Vita 6 months ago, started playing, got intimidated and put the game aside to continue Monster Hunter. As I got bored on a train ride last week I started playing it again and it caught my interest once more. But this time I want to do it right. I got a couple of questions, I hope you can help me :)

1. How to choose your main? I really like Blazblue and I like all the characters from what I have seen now, but on the same side I hate them all :D Whenever I start challenge mode with Arakune I think "Man, why are you trying this? Mu would be way more fun". This happens with all characters in both roles, so give me some inspiration how to take this really important decision.

2. How limited are my opportunities as a vita player? Am I able to all the stuff without an arcade stick?

3. How to train your fingers? This might sound ridiculous, but do you do some kind of exercise or something like that to stay in shape? I feel very slow and unprecise. Apart from that: Is there a special way to put your thumbs on the controller in order to operate faster?

4. How important is frame data for beginners? Where can I find it?

5. Is there a better place for information than here? Obviously I can't lurk around everywhere, so maybe someone knows that from his experience.

6. Thanks in advance! :)

edit: I played ~300hrs of Soul Calibur 2. No other relevant figher experience

#2 04 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

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1. Well, if mechanically they don't appeal to you, try playing story mode and see which ones you like personality wise.

2. Not sure about that, but it's definitely less precise as using an arcade stick or a controller. But then again I think the Vita uses controls that were adapted for it.

3. You train your fingers by just playing and trying to do the combos a lot. It's always difficult, but just like playing an instrument you get the hang of it after long enough.

4. Frame data isn't that important at first; what you need to know is what all of the moves your character does are, and become aware of using them. Once you do that, you can start going deeper into the frame data which can tell you things like, how quickly a move happens compared to other moves, or how much recovery there is on a move so you know if it's safe to do anything if you block an enemy attack.

5. Nope, Dustloop 4 lyfe. Also the frame data is on Dustloop.

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#3 04 December 2012 - 09:10 PM

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1. Just play around until you find someone you think is cool! Seriously, no rush here.

2. You'll probably be fine. You might have a slightly harder time with some of the more advanced stuff, but in general I don't think you'll be too crimped.

3. Rote repetition. That's really all there is to it - eventually, it'll be muscle memory.

4. Not all that important. If you want to learn it it won't hurt you, but it's not as though it's a priority.

5. No, this is pretty much the place.

6. You're welcome!
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#4 04 December 2012 - 09:14 PM

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1. Best way in my opinion is to just try Challenge mode until you find one that has combos you enjoy performing.

2. I can do everything on my Vita I could do on the 360. I highly recommend you try using the D-Pad instead of the analog stick. The analog stick is great for non-fighter games but it's so small on the Vita it's hard to use it precisely. The D-Pad on the Vita, however, is REALLY nice for fighters. It's nice and loose without feeling imprecise, and every time you hit a direction it has satisfying "click" to it just like an arcade stick. I've played a few matches online, and the lag was pretty much identical to consoles, which is rather impressive.

3. Play a guitar.

4. Not important, at the end of the day making the right judgements is what matters. (That means that no matter how knowledgeable you are about frame data, it won't save you from Inferno Divider)

5. Can't think of one. YouTube is a good enough source for combo videos though.
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#5 04 December 2012 - 09:42 PM

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Thanks everyone :)

1. I already played challenge mode with most of them. Some have combos that seem impossible and some have combos that are "just" hard :D Someone told me that these aren't the combos which are used in "real" battles anyway. So how to find the good ones? Searched the forum, there are like 3742394 threads. Is there some good collection?

2. Yeah, I already prefer the pad over the analog stick. But some moves are really hard to do, like: "right down right" (displayed as a "z" on the pad in the command list). "Left down left" works just fine. Propably just training, which is needed here.

3. You got a point there.

4. Okay, so I will do this later. What should I focus on instead?

5. That's great :)

#6 04 December 2012 - 09:42 PM

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Place your thumb on the center of the pad and tilt it around directions with minimal sliding, I place my joint over the center because I find it easier to to quickly rotate my thumb closer to the base. Visualize what you have to do with your thumb and get it wrong a lot. At the start it is kinda like learning to do the Vulcan solute for the first time. You might have trouble coordinating your hand to do something unfamiliar, but it learns how if you keep trying so you don't need any special training per se.

I'm a pad player myself and that's how I experienced fighting games when I got started, and I have Terrible hands. I have literally dropped the controller mid match because I'm only really trained my thumbs to do what I want, but I can compete seriously.

I've checked out a vita though and they are pretty nice, at least there wasn't anything I could not do on it when I tried it. Depending on hand size you might have to worry about hitting the stick, but it seemed to transfer over from a good controller pretty well, so I don't think it is any more of a disadvantage. Frame data isn't important exactly, but if you're the type who likes to study to improve your results it can be a very useful source of information. If the game isn't available to test or check something it nice to be able to bring up the frame data and figure it out, but you're on a vita so that might not be a big deal like it is for me.

I hope you find someone you genuinely enjoy playing. I bought the first BB just to play Tager.
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#7 04 December 2012 - 09:43 PM

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4. Not getting hit by Inferno Divider.
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#8 04 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

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4. You mean like that: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ccUqhJAlhjA ? :D

And @Osuna:

Thanks :) But if place my thumb in the middle of the pad my keypresses are pretty unprecise. But again this is just training, right?

edit: Question on the video: Why is the right one gaining heat while the other one is not? Or ist this fake?

#9 04 December 2012 - 09:54 PM

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It's alright that you play with Vita. I started out playing on the PSP. The arrow controls make it easier to input IMO, so if you like it that way, that's okay.
The main difference between the real competetion is that they play consoles. Be warned, because on console, you move more freely than you do on the portable games. That's what spoils you. You may have some adjusting to do when playing on consoles. Also, I prefer the four arrow buttons as opposed to a joystick. It seems to give one less control that rolling your thumb around.
1. Picking your main should be of ease to you. I tried all the characters, and found Tsubaki was comfortable at a beginner's pace, and got gradually better when getting more competetive. Jin should be a the first stepping stone; he has projectiles and a vary assort of special (and using 25 heat to upgrade them like in most games). He has a decent reach with his normals too, so try him and see what you like. If you like using the projectiles, choose a zoning character like Nu or Rachel. If you like using the sword a lot, you can go with Ragna or stick with Jin. If you like punishing characters (like using Jin's counter special), try Hakumen. If you want to be faster, try Tao. If you like closer action, go for Makoto or Tsubaki. But it's up to you. :)
2. Being a portable player limits you, and isn't really regarded highly. But I mainly play portable, so that's fine. I find it easier that you can stare down at the screen and at the controls at the same time. Hopefully PS Vita can play the PS3 in CP, because it will make it portable friendly. (that, and I want some salt when a player uses portable and wins)
3. A lot of practice (That darn P word pops up). PSP and Vita are fairly simple to grasp (especially PSP). But Xbox controllers and joystick are harder to use. Try getting comfortable with the portable controls, and then move foward.
4. and 5. are already answered.
Good luck!
And no, I totally haven't been waiting for a portable user to ask for help :vbang:
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#10 04 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

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It's alright that you play with Vita. I started out playing on the PSP. The arrow controls make it easier to input IMO, so if you like it that way, that's okay.
The main difference between the real competetion is that they play consoles. Be warned, because on console, you move more freely than you do on the portable games. That's what spoils you. You may have some adjusting to do when playing on consoles. Also, I prefer the four arrow buttons as opposed to a joystick. It seems to give one less control that rolling your thumb around.
1. Picking your main should be of ease to you. I tried all the characters, and found Tsubaki was comfortable at a beginner's pace, and got gradually better when getting more competetive. Jin should be a the first stepping stone; he has projectiles and a vary assort of special (and using 25 heat to upgrade them like in most games). He has a decent reach with his normals too, so try him and see what you like. If you like using the projectiles, choose a zoning character like Nu or Rachel. If you like using the sword a lot, you can go with Ragna or stick with Jin. If you like punishing characters (like using Jin's counter special), try Hakumen. If you want to be faster, try Tao. If you like closer action, go for Makoto or Tsubaki. But it's up to you. :)
2. Being a portable player limits you, and isn't really regarded highly. But I mainly play portable, so that's fine. I find it easier that you can stare down at the screen and at the controls at the same time. Hopefully PS Vita can play the PS3 in CP, because it will make it portable friendly. (that, and I want some salt when a player uses portable and wins)
3. A lot of practice (That darn P word pops up). PSP and Vita are fairly simple to grasp (especially PSP). But Xbox controllers and joystick are harder to use. Try getting comfortable with the portable controls, and then move foward.
4. and 5. are already answered.
Good luck!
And no, I totally haven't been waiting for a portable user to ask for help :vbang:


Awesome, thanks man :) But I did not really get your point with the staring at the screen and at your fingers. How is that an advantage? Apart from that, if I really fall in love with this game and stay tuned for some serious amount of time I will use my spare money to get a PS3/360. But at that time I already want to have a main I can win some matches with.
I tried Jin but he is too much of a sissy for me. I would love a character which has medium speed, medium power, medium length combos, interesting look, is not overplayed like Noel, does not rely on gimmicks or projectiles (having them is always nice but overusing them sucks) and is just awesome and not too hard to learn. Sadly there is no such character in BB :D

#11 04 December 2012 - 10:10 PM

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did you say hakumen

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#12 04 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

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Awesome, thanks man :) But I did not really get your point with the staring at the screen and at your fingers. How is that an advantage?

If your fingers slip or get slippery, you may have to look down occasionally. Also, if you have a mind blank, sometimes it's easier to look at the buttons to remind yourself.
As for a medium character, Jin DOES fit the bill; and he rarely needs to use projectiles unless he's forced to zone. Ragna is a medium all around, and he doesn't rely on a charging gimmick like Tsubaki and does have some repetetive combos to make it easy to learn. To each their own though.
I'm going to cry more because I've been trying to find that "medium" character too with no success. At least I have my Tsu~
P.S. Jin a sissy? You might be judging him by story mode only. Don't let it blind you.
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#13 05 December 2012 - 07:03 AM

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did you say hakumen


Hakumen? He is way to difficult for me with all that counter-stuff :( I tried him and it was way too frustrating, missing all the counters.

If your fingers slip or get slippery, you may have to look down occasionally. Also, if you have a mind blank, sometimes it's easier to look at the buttons to remind yourself.
As for a medium character, Jin DOES fit the bill; and he rarely needs to use projectiles unless he's forced to zone. Ragna is a medium all around, and he doesn't rely on a charging gimmick like Tsubaki and does have some repetetive combos to make it easy to learn. To each their own though.
I'm going to cry more because I've been trying to find that "medium" character too with no success. At least I have my Tsu~
P.S. Jin a sissy? You might be judging him by story mode only. Don't let it blind you.


I get your point now, maybe this will be a problem later on. Tried Ragnas challenges and I thought they were pretty cool, but something just does not feel right about this guy :/

#14 05 December 2012 - 07:19 AM

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You shouldn't be trying to use his counters all over the place. They're very risky, but if you have a good grasp on what the opponent is thinking, can be used well. But if you're still learning everything, obviously it's going to be early for that. You want to just block and then punish unsafe moves. Unsafe moves are moves that, when blocked by you, leaves you able to act earlier than your opponent. You'll be able to hit them while they're still recovering from their attack, and they won't be able to do anything but get hit. But that requires you being patient enough to wait it out until the right moment. That's why it's important to know what your moves are, and what the properties of the moves your opponent is using are.

But you can also get by with Hakumen just keeping people away from you with his sword. If they're clumsy they'll just rush right into it and get smacked in the face. His combos are still tough for a beginner, but simpler than a lot of other character's. You can just start with easier stuff and build your way up.

Remember, combos are what you do AFTER you land a hit. But more important is all the stuff that goes into being able to land that first hit. The combo is just an afterthought.

Edited by mAc Chaos, 05 December 2012 - 07:22 AM.

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#15 05 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

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1. Head to the character subforums in the Blazblue section. There are combos, general strategies and usage, videos, and tons of helpful stuff.

2. The input is right>down>down+right or 623(Look at the numpad on your keyboard, each number is a direction, 5 being neutral)

4. The way I tackled the game is by playing Ragna for basics, then jumping around with Taokaka, Hazama, Hakumen, Tager, and Tsubaki, until finally landing on Lambda and being happy there. Just play around with characters until you find one you like. Past that, just play with that for a bit, get more of a feel for it, what all your different moves are, get a feel for your spacing, from there get into combos and more advanced techniques.

Though in the end I'm still pretty scrubby, but I hope this helps you out. The game is fun as heck and it always feels good to improve.
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#16 05 December 2012 - 02:11 PM

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You shouldn't be trying to use his counters all over the place. They're very risky, but if you have a good grasp on what the opponent is thinking, can be used well. But if you're still learning everything, obviously it's going to be early for that. You want to just block and then punish unsafe moves. Unsafe moves are moves that, when blocked by you, leaves you able to act earlier than your opponent. You'll be able to hit them while they're still recovering from their attack, and they won't be able to do anything but get hit. But that requires you being patient enough to wait it out until the right moment. That's why it's important to know what your moves are, and what the properties of the moves your opponent is using are.

But you can also get by with Hakumen just keeping people away from you with his sword. If they're clumsy they'll just rush right into it and get smacked in the face. His combos are still tough for a beginner, but simpler than a lot of other character's. You can just start with easier stuff and build your way up.

Remember, combos are what you do AFTER you land a hit. But more important is all the stuff that goes into being able to land that first hit. The combo is just an afterthought.


Thanks for this helpful information :) So you think I should go for Hakumen?
And about the first hit: How to recognize wether a move is safe or not during battle?

1. Head to the character subforums in the Blazblue section. There are combos, general strategies and usage, videos, and tons of helpful stuff.

2. The input is right>down>down+right or 623(Look at the numpad on your keyboard, each number is a direction, 5 being neutral)

4. The way I tackled the game is by playing Ragna for basics, then jumping around with Taokaka, Hazama, Hakumen, Tager, and Tsubaki, until finally landing on Lambda and being happy there. Just play around with characters until you find one you like. Past that, just play with that for a bit, get more of a feel for it, what all your different moves are, get a feel for your spacing, from there get into combos and more advanced techniques.

Though in the end I'm still pretty scrubby, but I hope this helps you out. The game is fun as heck and it always feels good to improve.


1. Yeah, there is lots of stuff, but to do so I need a main. And apart from that the amount of information provided there is just overwhelming. I need to start somewhere :/ I thought it would be a good idea to do challenges first, because this will help my fingers to operate faster and will give me a basic understanding of how the character works. Apart from that I have sample-play and the movelist right there.

2. Now that explains a lot! Thanks! Does it have to be exactly 623 or will 6323 also do the trick, because I am not quite sure how to hit 2 coming from 6 avoiding 3.

4. This is what I want to avoid. I would like to play my main from the start.

And yeah, the game is fun to watch :D And I want to participate now, too, but it's rellay frustrating :D I feel like an fat old man, watching soccer and never kicked a ball game himself.

#17 05 December 2012 - 08:12 PM

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4. This is what I want to avoid. I would like to play my main from the start.


In my opinion, it's something that you really shouldn't avoid. It is pretty hard to avoid looking for a main if you care about your main's playstyle, and it is a very good way to learn the game and how everyone works... to some extent, at least.

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#18 05 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

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I agree with Katz. You can't really go pick a main without testing the waters first. Choose a character, and find your likes and dislikes. And using different characters occasionally will help you with matchups. When watching footage, if you played as other characters, you can point out moves that they use to start a combo or hit confirm. Knowing the moves and patterns means you know a little about what your opponent will do in a match. :eng101:
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#19 05 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

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Well I played some Hakumen today and really enjoyed it, now that I know using D counter is not everything. Now you are telling me that I should think about that twice? :D
I will go on practicing him and once I know what I dislike about him I will have a look for a character which suits me better. But if there is no such character I will stick to him. Sounds good, right? :D

One question about him: Does anybody actually use the distortion drive counter? I think it is nearly impossible to pull off properly.

#20 05 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

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Thanks for this helpful information :) So you think I should go for Hakumen?
And about the first hit: How to recognize wether a move is safe or not during battle?


You can't. You just have to know. And it's not necessarily a binary "always can punish/never can punish" thing either. Some moves are safe if spaced right, or unsafe if instant blocked, and what you can punish WITH depends on the move, etc. Complexity is complex.


1. Yeah, there is lots of stuff, but to do so I need a main. And apart from that the amount of information provided there is just overwhelming. I need to start somewhere :/ I thought it would be a good idea to do challenges first, because this will help my fingers to operate faster and will give me a basic understanding of how the character works. Apart from that I have sample-play and the movelist right there.


Try just running through arcade mode on an elevated but non-max difficulty to get a feel for what people do. Challenges can help too though.

2. Now that explains a lot! Thanks! Does it have to be exactly 623 or will 6323 also do the trick, because I am not quite sure how to hit 2 coming from 6 avoiding 3.


Erm, it's pretty easy. You push 6, then you push "nothing" for a split second, then you push 2, then 3. That said, 6323 might work, but it's better to get in the habit of doing moves RIGHT, because depending on the circumstances (such as which direction you were pushing before you started doing the move) weird things might happen if you try to lazy it.

4. This is what I want to avoid. I would like to play my main from the start.


There isn't really any avoiding it. If you don't know how they play, you can't choose the best one for you. It's like shopping for shoes without trying them on.

And to answer your earlier question, the Ragna on the Right was gaining heat because he was low on health. Characters who are below about 35% HP gain heat automatically.
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#21 05 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

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Okidoki, check this vid. It shows some countering. The counter DD is great for punishing multi hit distortions like Litchi's 13 orphans.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=MLX4uZIB0rM
EDIT: There are Yukikaze complitations from the same guy. Check those too. :)

Edited by WillWork4Instal, 05 December 2012 - 09:25 PM.

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#22 05 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

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I disagree withe everybody saying to try everybody. It's not like you can tell what their play style is really like until you can get decent with them, and that means playing with them for a bit. You will learn more about how other characters play, by fighting them when other people use them.

I never went through a lot of characters, I just picked Hakumen and that was it.

As for knowing how to punish moves, that's where frame data comes in, or just asking us what moves are unsafe. Some moves have longer recover than others, which means once you block them you can attack. Inferno Divider, for instance, is invincible during its attack and beats pretty much anything you throw at it. But if you block it, it takes forever to recover, and that's when you can hit back. You can learn that kind of stuff through trial and error, or looking at frame data for the character's move and comparing to your own moves and how fast they are for which ones to use to respond. (By the way, Hakumen's counters also fall into the punishable category. If you do it and they don't take the bait, you're stuck in recovery for like 3 hours and they can hit you.)

For Hakumen's counters, you should look at them like checkmating the opponent's attack as if it was a chess game where you saw their move coming or they did something that's too late for them to stop, rather than just throwing it out there and hoping you get lucky.

The classic: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=75sS8F66idI

Edited by mAc Chaos, 05 December 2012 - 09:42 PM.

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#23 06 December 2012 - 05:03 AM

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That's some nice contribution, and I like the detailed explanation of a simlpe yet important set of concepts however...I have no idea what checkmate an attack is supposed to mean. I thought you might mean to defeat an attack in some strange sense, but you took the extra time to make sure we knew you were using checkmate in the chess sense and I just... what is that supposed to mean?

Counters are good defensive tools against reactionable attacks too. They also can seal slow options since they can be D'd on reaction. Playing against Spark as Tager sucks btw.
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#24 06 December 2012 - 05:13 AM

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Basically yomi / hard call out. Everybody knows chess.

A lot of the time when I'm playing someone I kind of have a mental flowchart going through my head of what I think they're going to do, what I'm going to do to counter it, what their response is going to be, and what my response to that will be, until I reach the "solution" where I win. Usually against my brother who plays Tager it goes something like: I knock him down, I go for Hotaru on wakeup, he goes wakeup MTW, (I saw it coming) Hotaru clashes, I go directly into j.D to avoid getting destroyed, he rapid cancels and goes for mixup, and then one of us will win the exchange based on what I thought. But if I made the right move then that's what I meant by checkmate. Technically it's more of a general thing.

Should've just called it a call out. :3 The reason I made the chess analogy though is you don't want to just do it all over the place randomly, you want to do it only after you thought it through and know what they're about to do, in a deliberate way.

Edited by mAc Chaos, 06 December 2012 - 05:22 AM.

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#25 06 December 2012 - 05:33 AM

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Basically yomi / hard call out. Everybody knows chess.

A lot of the time when I'm playing someone I kind of have a mental flowchart going through my head of what I think they're going to do, what I'm going to do to counter it, what their response is going to be, and what my response to that will be, until I reach the "solution" where I win. Usually against my brother who plays Tager it goes something like: I knock him down, I go for Hotaru on wakeup, he goes wakeup MTW, (I saw it coming) Hotaru clashes, I go directly into j.D to avoid getting destroyed, he rapid cancels and goes for mixup, and then one of us will win the exchange based on what I thought. But if I made the right move then that's what I meant by checkmate. Technically it's more of a general thing.

Should've just called it a call out. :3

...Do you know chess? Because that isn't how checkmate works and while good chess player can see ahead into the game that also isn't analogous to yomi/call outs.

Just a note for the new player, if you're going to yomi or call out an attack you think will happen by countering it you should measure your confidence. High risk moves like hakumen's drive require a high success rate to be worth it, so often there are better options! Another reason to not worry too much about being psychic with counters and react to things appropriately.
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#26 06 December 2012 - 05:36 AM

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#27 06 December 2012 - 08:51 AM

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I see how good they are to counter multihit drives, but I think that is something which needs tons of training, right?

And about the chess thing: I understand what you wanted to tell me. But I am far away from reading somebodies mind. And even if I were a pro it would be hard to da that. Of course there are some basic combos, every player uses, but I think everybody has his very own playstyle and therefore is unpredictable if you encounter him the first time.

And although some say I should try every character before I decide, I will stick to Hakumen for some time now. The videos were awesome and I also like his style.

@ WillWork4Instal: I found another reason why playing on vita is easier: You can put sticky notes below the screen in case of blackout/to learn the combos :D This is what I am actually doing right now. I tried beating Arcade with only 2 basic short combos (B+C, 214A, 6C and 4C, 214A, 3C) to get used to those and see where I can apply them and where I cannot. Then I will learn some new combos which I can do when I can't do those and eventually I will replace them by something longer and more difficult.

Or is this a stupid idea? :D

edit: Whats "yomi"?

#28 06 December 2012 - 03:14 PM

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edit: Whats "yomi"?


I believe it's "reading" in Japanese - as in "reading your opponent" as in "being able to tell what he's going to do before he does it"; aka "being psychic" or just "calling him out". It's a term you'll see thrown around a good bit, and it boils down to being able to get into your opponent's head so you can tell what they'll do and counter it.
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#29 06 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

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@ WillWork4Instal: I found another reason why playing on vita is easier: You can put sticky notes below the screen in case of blackout/to learn the combos :D This is what I am actually doing right now. I tried beating Arcade with only 2 basic short combos (B+C, 214A, 6C and 4C, 214A, 3C) to get used to those and see where I can apply them and where I cannot. Then I will learn some new combos which I can do when I can't do those and eventually I will replace them by something longer and more difficult.
Or is this a stupid idea? :D


That's pretty smart. Taking notes is extremely helpful, and sticking it to your Vita is a very good idea. Having two or three combos in the beginning is good; memorizing simple stuff helps you understand more complex situations. Keep up the good work! :thumbu:
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#30 06 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

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Thank you two :)

For now I got no further questions :D I will practice now :) Played some games online today, just to see how good the opponents are. They aren't even that good. But the lag is horrible :(




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