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Millia vs. Venom: Is he the pitcher or the catcher?


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#1 05 June 2008 - 11:28 PM

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#2 07 September 2008 - 05:18 PM

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Where's your anti-Prucha strats at Viscioso?
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#3 08 September 2008 - 12:39 AM

zer0kage
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My take on Venom is like tug of war on who gets the knockdown. Becareful of his 5S when approaching him from the ground. If you insist on doing so a running roll-throw would suffice but you have to judge it carefully as 5S can stop your run in momentum cold. If that's not bad enough attempting to overlypoke him or going low first with 2D or 2K will give him a free dubious curve hit. Note that he can already harass you with Stinger Aims from the get go. It's not too hard to get around but if he has a ball setout he can cover more space thus getting near him is quite a task . At the right range throwing out the pin can stop his projectile game cold allowing you to get in and wreck him down. Easier said than done and that is one of the real main obstacles in this matchup. His c5S, 6P and 5H are deadly anti airs against a jump in jS *without pin. If you're feeling gutsy 5D beats out his Double Headed Morbid clean. Otherwise block (preferably IB) and throw him for free. When he's up in the air, jK is a good air to air against his air normals but not if you approach him from right below. A preemptive 2H is a decent solution to that though since with the right time (usually preemptively) Millia crouches low for a short while to 'dodge' his jH and score a CH 2H which will deal massive damage. The most recommended basic adc against him is jPSH adc jD adc jD. If he scores the knockdown... Just block his ball formation oki game. Millia not having a dp will requre a more 'passive' approach to get out of Venom's oki. With meter you do have enough time to setout an FB disc to stop stuff like ball formation 623K back ad jS crossup. Wakeup Winger is viable but it's a real gamble.

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#4 09 September 2008 - 07:18 AM

Vicioso
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Where's your anti-Prucha strats at Viscioso?


well since my post got deleted (as usual) i'll give some REAL strats

learn how to block

don't worry about what beats what...youre not gonna have time to remember all that with balls in your face

sweep is good in this matchup to get in, pin as well (obviously), 5p > j.k > combo > knockdown is your best friend as AA

but the main thing....and i cannot stress this enough, dont let venom get rolling

so...dont get hit :keke:

simple enough right? :yaaay:
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#5 09 September 2008 - 02:43 PM

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#6 15 September 2008 - 10:56 AM

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Kane you played against Scott's Venom alot dont you. What are your usual strats against him?

我は空、我は鋼、我は刃!!我は一繰り剣にて全ての罪を刈り取り悪を滅する!


#7 29 June 2009 - 11:37 PM

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i used to think this matchup is even, but after sum matches with my friend's venom, it is in millia's favor. Millia just waltzes around venom with her speed, and pin blows through his anti-airs for free which gives u the option of knockdown or comboing venom. At the same time using turbo-fall wisely can help millia avoid gettin AA'd by venom with the landing trajectory. As mentioned, avoid jump-ins without the pin since venom can anti-air you with 6p leading to his oki nd itll b hard to get out of since millia lacks good reversals. capitalize on every knockdown when u secure it since venom has no options of getting out of millia's oki. i think thats a majority of this matchup, not sure wut else is there to add. but this is just from my take.
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#8 18 April 2011 - 09:59 PM

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Going to revise what I previously wrote above and try to dust off some cobwebs on this thread for this writeup. Recounting the sessions I did against Faultydefense and previous experience mentioned above I'll try to explain things the best I can.

This matchup is a momentum based matchup as to whoever gets the first knockdown wins and neither character has an answer to get out other than blocking correctly. Fortunately enough Millia has the advantage in terms of mobility and pin to help her secure the knockdown and okizeme.


-Pin shuts down venom's anti-airs and stops venom from setting up balls. Fish for pin counterhits for knockdown.

-If you do not have the pin, be wary of your movement as Venom's anti-airs can be converted into his pressure and corner game. In addition, watch for pool balls since they will likely be set up already.

-Maneuvering around in the air and utilizing your mobility is highly suggested. Take the initiative, but don't get reckless against his anti-airs. Turbofall is good to mix in aside from your airdashes.

-Venom's DAA is baitable when canceling strings into roll at times.

-Avoid rolling in neutral situations because of 2d and 6h.

-j.k is good when he is above you as mentioned.

-Venom's 5sf and 5h are strong pokes that can lead into knockdown along with stinger frc. 5p is also quick. Do not go poke for poke against him.

-His pressure can crank your guard bar quick and they leave him. Do your best to block correctly and don't mash out.

-When you don't have the pin, Venom does have a higher rate to anti-air you and can set up balls.

-6h reaches all the way to the ground so using roll in neutral is not advised at all.

Will edit this post definitely to add or correct things.

Edited by Ril I am, 28 April 2011 - 02:42 AM.

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#9 09 April 2014 - 07:37 AM

Stellarcircle5
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I have been having loads of trouble with this matchup. On paper I know it should be in Millia's favor, but this freaking guy seems to have an answer for everything she has.

A few shitty scenarios I have found myself in:

- Fullscreen ball spam. Can't safely approach, even with pin. I thought pin would be able to shut down any balls as I approach Venom, but the spacing is so precise when it comes to sniping the ball that it feels nigh impossible. Even if I DO manage to snipe the ball there is just another one at an angle I can't cover.

- Ground footsies, Venom's normals are really freaking good, and I know that this is usually where Millia struggles. 5S and 2S in particular shut me down hard.

- FB Stinger Aim. Screw this move, seriously, it basically seems to make Venom safe from any sort of approach as long as the ball is active.

- Getting 6P anti aired. Holy jesus his 6P wrecks me so hard. It almost makes me feel like approaching from the air isn't worth it.

I know that this matchup is essentially "Whoever gets knocked down first loses", but Venom's space control in Neutral makes gaining any sort of momentum a huge chore. The only times I am able to win is when I get my vortex going at round start. As soon as he manages to get into neutral, I just lose.

There are too many balls. Help. Please. They are everywhere.
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#10 10 April 2014 - 04:53 AM

Teyah
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This match is definitely not bad, I'd say around 6.0 for Millia.  Millia can get around Venom's neutral without too much trouble and her oki is far superior to his, and he has no defensive options against it, so one knockdown can lead to a win for Millia.  I'll try to break down your post point by point.
 

 

- Fullscreen ball spam. Can't safely approach, even with pin. I thought pin would be able to shut down any balls as I approach Venom, but the spacing is so precise when it comes to sniping the ball that it feels nigh impossible. Even if I DO manage to snipe the ball there is just another one at an angle I can't cover.
Definitely, do not try to waste Pin on clearing out a ball to get in.  Millia has many other ways around balls and Pin is too precious to throw away like this.  You can use Pin when there are balls out, just make sure that it'll actually connect on Venom himself.
 
Millia actually gets around balls very easily.  Here are some of her options:
  • Running - if the balls are moving straight, she can run under 3 of the 5 AC ball summons: P ball (waist level), K ball (head height) and H ball (head height but farther away).  She can only be hit by the the regular D ball (grounded) and the S ball (knee-height) when she runs.  If Venom uses multiple balls then the formation changes so you'll have to judge the height by eye, but this isn't usually too hard.  If there are multiple balls already out, then you can only run to close in, but you likely won't be able to run through all the way.  But overall running in, and stopping with FD to prevent Venom from setting up more balls, is really good - it lets you get in quickly, so Venom can't just commit to throwing balls out since even a single ball summon -> hit can be punished hard
  • Roll - Millia can roll under every ball except for the AC D ball (grounded ball).  This includes Stinger Aim (all versions), but not Carcass Raid since that bounces off the ground first.  Rolling through obvious Stinger Aim definitely helps a lot.
  • Neutral jump -  Do this at just outside of AA range and it's safe - and you can also threaten with AD S Pin which should stop Venom from setting up balls carelessly.
 
If you're fullscreen and Venom has already set 1-2 balls, then you'll need to be careful and use one of the following options:
  • (FB) Secret Garden - You can backdash to full screen and use regular SG to clear a path forward, or back off a bit and use FB SG more defensively.  Regular SG is pretty punishable though, so if Venom sees your backdash and expects it, he can punish hard.  But then you've made him stop setting balls to pursue your backdash, so if you don't use SG, you've created a better situation for yourself.  Basically, use this sparingly (once you start getting punished for it), but threaten with it a lot.  Press D to cancel during SG, you build some meter too!
  • IAD forward (at a distance) - What you're doing here is gauging the situation and then reacting with either air FD, or AD forward/back.  Air FD if you're going to land on a ball or think an AA (covered by a ball) is coming, AD back if you don't want to take the risk, or AD forward if there's a glaring gap waiting to be moved through.
  • Run up and FD brake, then normal/instant block - This is basically the equivalent of walking up and blocking a Sonic Boom to get in on Guile in Street Fighter.  Except Venom gets way less frame advantage and can't continue to throw out balls more than maybe once more after you get within a decent range.
 

 

- Ground footsies, Venom's normals are really freaking good, and I know that this is usually where Millia struggles. 5S and 2S in particular shut me down hard.
Venom's weakness in his poking is that all of his mid range pokes have fairly slow recovery and don't lead into either damage or oki.  You can exploit this by simply jumping forward at the range you think he will poke at, and if he does a 5S or 2S, you get to jump in for free and come down with j.S for a mixup chance (via ADC) at the very least.  Alternatively, you can just run the basic 'jump back and airdash S Pin' to get around the poking game entirely.  You can also use backdash -> 2D to punish both Venom's 2S and 2D on whiff, although Venom shouldn't really be poking with 2D.
 

 

- FB Stinger Aim. Screw this move, seriously, it basically seems to make Venom safe from any sort of approach as long as the ball is active.
If he's using it defensively when you're in close this can be annoying, but really it doesn't lead to much.  It has really fast startup so you can't just stuff it reliably.  But after it comes out, you can jump back (with FD), and then airdash with Pin to get right back in once it's gone.  You can also roll right under the ball and go for roll -> throw once it's out, but this is a bit more risky.
 

 

- Getting 6P anti aired. Holy jesus his 6P wrecks me so hard. It almost makes me feel like approaching from the air isn't worth it.
Just save your Pin and use it in the situations where he'd want to 6P (likely if he has no balls set up).  Since Venom's 6P is active for quite awhile, there's a high chance you'll get a CH stagger which you can then convert into a full combo.
 
 

 

I know that this matchup is essentially "Whoever gets knocked down first loses", but Venom's space control in Neutral makes gaining any sort of momentum a huge chore. The only times I am able to win is when I get my vortex going at round start. As soon as he manages to get into neutral, I just lose.
This is true for Millia's oki but definitely not for Venom.  Venom's oki game is not super threatening since it's fairly low damage, and if you guess right on his better setups (jump and late airdash+high or land+low), he has to convert into frame advantage pressure via Stinger FRC or Carcass Raid, which is much less ambiguous and can be beat with patience.  If he does close S into CR/SA, you can FD it to create some space and then avoid the incoming ball.  TK Mad Struggle is very blockable on reaction, as is the FB version.  I might be able to give better advice if you list what you're getting hit by?
 
 
Another thing I should mention is that when Venom's in the air, you can't reliably use 2H or (especially) 6P to hit him, since he can change his air trajectory so easily via Mad Struggle.  He also has a fairly good hitbox on his j.H, which makes it even harder to space yourself to AA with Millia's grounded AAs.  It feels like 5P is your best bet for grounded AAs, but mainly I stick to air to air rising j.P or j.K against him, which you can convert to a full combo via dj.K-H, ADC j.2H etc.


#11 10 April 2014 - 07:40 AM

Stellarcircle5
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Holy hell, I wasn't expecting such a detailed response! You rock, Teyah!

Faultless Defense seems to be a recurring thing in your post, so I guess I should be using it more. It's gonna be hard though because I love hoarding meter for FB disc. Also, baiting an AA with a neutral jump... For something so simple it makes me wonder why I've never thought to use it.

Guess that strikes Venom from the my list of "Matchups that make me want to tear my hair out. Only like, 4 or 5 more to go. You might be seeing another post like mine in the future depending on whichever is pissing me off the most XD
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