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Zappa vs Venom


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#1 17 October 2008 - 08:34 PM

Greed
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So I was playing my Zappa vs my area's only Venom for the first time the other day, and got really frustratingly owned. -6p lost consistantly to his (6HS?) down-swiping pool-cue attack unless it was timed just right. -his normals beat f.s pretty easily -Keep-away with ghosts was such a BAD idea :( -Dog kept dying on me, and it seemed about 50-50 whether I'd also get hit, or I'd be able to run in and combo into a fresh summon. On the other hand, once I managed to get him locked down with sword pressure it was pretty okay, and Raou's great as long as you don't fuck up the superjump over dark angel x2 :P What do you do w/o sword/raou though?

#2 17 October 2008 - 09:45 PM

Phrekwenci
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Lots of 5Ks, with CHs.

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#3 18 October 2008 - 03:27 PM

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-you shouldn't be using 6p unless you're using it as okizeme or a mixup. Venom's 6H(the downward swipe that bounces you off the floor) can be owned pretty much in the startup frames. Venom's 6P can be beat in close w/ 2p or even 5K. - Far Slash with what? Regular, with dog, sword, or ghosts? Be specific. - You should always be ready for the dog to die. That just means buffering another summons when Venom is hitting your dog. I can't possibly conceive how this matchup is a problem for Zappa, since he can run under most balls. It's even, at worst. The only thing Zappa has to worry about is Venom's 6P, 2S, and 2D(and 6H if you like to jump around like an idiot). Venom has NO REAL DEFENSE, so rush the fuck out of him, and punish him for summoning balls at the end of his blockstrings with a dash 2d xx summon(empty), dash DP(sword), or any poke with ghosts and dog.

#4 18 October 2008 - 08:00 PM

Oiboi
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-you shouldn't be using 6p unless you're using it as okizeme or a mixup. Venom's 6H(the downward swipe that bounces you off the floor) can be owned pretty much in the startup frames. Venom's 6P can be beat in close w/ 2p or even 5K.
- Far Slash with what? Regular, with dog, sword, or ghosts? Be specific.
- You should always be ready for the dog to die. That just means buffering another summons when Venom is hitting your dog.

I can't possibly conceive how this matchup is a problem for Zappa, since he can run under most balls. It's even, at worst. The only thing Zappa has to worry about is Venom's 6P, 2S, and 2D(and 6H if you like to jump around like an idiot). Venom has NO REAL DEFENSE, so rush the fuck out of him, and punish him for summoning balls at the end of his blockstrings with a dash 2d xx summon(empty), dash DP(sword), or any poke with ghosts and dog.


6P as oki? wut.
If he's mentioning f.S, it's probably the spit. That's the only substantial f.S that's worth mentioning usually.
A good venom can launch several balls in zappa's general direction so even if the dog dies it's pointless.

This matchup IS in Zappa's favor, it's just a tricky match due to venoms ability to control the screen in a peculiar way.

Naked/unsummon:
-The start of the round is a bit tricky against Venom. The idea is to put pressure on him before he can put pressure on you but he has ways of stuffing rushdown attempts (Vertical stinger aim, if you do f.S he can beat it with his own f.S). However, it's unlikely most venoms will try something like this due to the fact that in most matchups, Venom must do a defensive maneuver; this means that they may be predispositioned to being defensive.
-Still, aggression even if they know the matchup is the better idea. Getting locked down by Venom is a pain in the ass. Almost all of Venoms pokes are more susceptible to summon than most characters, due to their odd frames and way of attacking, so getting a summon isn't a terribly difficult thing to do.
-f.S is still a good option, just do it slightly past full range to bait a f.S or 6HS (since Venom moves forward a little). 5K will beat out almost all of Venoms low pokes and is fast enough to beat a lot of his standing pokes. 6P is good, but only in certain situations.

Ghosts:
-Almost useless in this match once venom gets pressure. Good for P toss FRC and getting rid of deadly lockdown balls, and once you get pressure are very nice, but don't take them for granted.
-Must be very good with the ghosts to do anything substantial against venom. Look out for dubious curve on non-frc tosses.

Sword:
-Free counterhits are go! DP and swipe are too good, even sword slide is silly.
-Venoms pretty easy to combo. Look out for the balls and you'll do fine.

Dog:
-Tricky as hell to use because Venom can hit 3 or 4 times with any generic poke if he sets up and prepares properly.
-The idea is to get a knockdown and keep that 2D on his ass the whole time, or at least make sure he has no time to do a stinger aim to get you off him.
-Always always always be ready for that summon if your dog gets killed.

Raou:
-Due to raou's large hitbox while he's attacking, LOOK OUT FOR BALLS AND ATTACKS. They WILL land a counterhit if you try attacking with them on him.
-However, it's a bit like the sword, in which any kind of aggression from venom is easily defeated.

Overall: Definitely in Zappa's favor but it's not impossible by a longshot for Venom to win. It's a tricky match and is pretty momentum dependent, in that either one eventually has trouble once the other gets control of the match.
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#5 19 October 2008 - 03:04 AM

Greed
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Kk, thanks. Yeah, our Venom is a really aggro bastard (HI PETER) with disgustingly good pressure. I'll try out 5k and see which moves it can consistently beat, thx :)

#6 21 October 2008 - 06:55 AM

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Thanks for all the info. I'll keep it in mind next time I play. :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

#7 24 November 2008 - 03:12 AM

frtpunchsamurai
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Ghost summon - I do not think its very useless as it stops venom from using 2-ball combination. It is pretty irritating at first getting hit by ghosts but once you get used to jumping and running around its pretty fun. Zappa going under balls? - K>S + 2p does the trick here. So zappa can't go under this one....... to be continued g2g.....

#8 09 September 2009 - 02:06 PM

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I know that everyone says this matchup is in Zappa's favor and sword wrecks Venom, but I honestly don't see how. Yes, some of Venom's stuff doesn't work on Zappa because of his hitbox/running animation, but how is this in his favor? I wish sword ate poolballs. That would be tits. That's big, fat Oprah tits.

How you grip your stick is a definite personal preference.


GGAC: Zappa

#9 09 September 2009 - 02:36 PM

Zoogstin
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Eww Anyways, I don't have much experience with a good Venom but if the sword is good against him its probably because you can counter hit him while he is setting his pools balls (a good Venom would not let this happen). A counter hit from the sword is not good.
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#10 09 September 2009 - 02:59 PM

Valentine
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Poolball pressure is hard to deal with when you're Zappa. One hit and you (more than likely) have to return to square one, which is a pain in the ass because you don't have enough time to summon inbetween well timed poolballs. In my experience thus far, Zappa vs Venom is Patience vs Pressure. Venom pressure is beastly.

How you grip your stick is a definite personal preference.


GGAC: Zappa

#11 09 September 2009 - 09:23 PM

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The same can go the other way when Zappa has the ghosts or dog and is pressuring Venom. If you can get on top of Venom he's just as trapped as you would be.
Raou mode yells out STFU NUB in Japanese...
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#12 10 September 2009 - 12:04 AM

Phrekwenci
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Just don't let him setup the balls and you should be alright. Just like he isn't going to let you keep your summon. If you stay on top of him, you should have the upper hand.

Consider yourself Signatured, Phrek


#13 07 July 2010 - 05:41 PM

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Dusting this thread off, I find that Zappa's 6P is a great tool in this matchup. If you anticipate a f.s, you can 6P through it. It also goes through Venom's 2P, for some reason. 6P CH into 2H jc j.p j.s jc j.p j.s j.d is 50% on Venom, which is just awesome.

I have the hardest time crossing the screen when he's spamming poolballs, there's no real opening anywhere. I can't run under the K ball, and jumping against Venom is horrible with his c.s/6P/6H. You can punish a poolball summon if you guess right, but that's about it.

Zoog got to play the same Venom at FR. Any suggestions?

How you grip your stick is a definite personal preference.


GGAC: Zappa

#14 07 July 2010 - 07:43 PM

Zoogstin
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Can't really say because a lot of my time playing FD was spent trying to get past stupid habits like use faultless defense to block the balls. At the time I didn't realize that the balls can be blocked normally. So by the time I got in on Venom or he got in on me, I had meter to get him off me or to block his anti-airs. This matchup takes a lot of patience and blocking that's all I can say. He was the last Venom I fought and that 4 months ago.

Oh but I do agree that 6P is great in this matchup.
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