GGACR/Slayer/Resources

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Preface

This page is Slayer's Resources page. This page is to be used to indiscriminately store just about any pieces of gameplay information that anyone may have that exists about this character, to make for a catalog of preserved content that can (and probably should) be fully realized and transcribed onto main character pages after review.

For simplicity's sake; anything you would want pinned in your character channel or character Discord can go here, such as:

  • Character Discord pins
  • Links or transcriptions of external personal documents and / or Dustloop User Docs
  • Tech videos, especially from Twitter hashtags
  • One-off or niche combo routes
  • Set-ups (for pressure, mix-ups, okizeme, or setplay)
  • Video analyses of matches and sets
If more opinionated works are posted, such as match-up charts, it is highly recommended that you include accreditation to the creator and any other important specifics (such as ordering or et cetera), so that readers can evaluate the sourcing. To readers, also note that this means you should consume at your own discretion. Not all strategy or reasoning may be fully explained, tested, or viable, so either be sure to ask the creators any questions (if possible), or do your own research in training mode.
Community Links
Match Replays

Documents

Videos



Plain Text

Melovech

5H Undertow and 6H 5H routing

Tested from slide, CH IL into 5h UT

CH IL 5H UT 6H 5H UT works on:

DI, MI, JO, TE, BR

CH IL 5H UT 6H 5H works on:

BA, PO, IN, KL, JA, KY

CH IL 5H UT 6H IAD j.K 5H UT works on everyone except the 5 below.

CH IL 5H UT 6H IAD j.K 5H UT does NOT WORK ON:

j.K Whiffs: AX, AN

5H Whiffs: BA, FA, IN

CH IL 5H UT 6H rising j.H falling j.K 5H UT works on:

AX and FA

KT

UT 6H

works on: AN, AX, BA, BR, DI, ED, FA, IN, JO, JU, KL, KY, MA, MI, PO, RO, SL, TE, VE, ZA

only from slide (aka most of the time): JA

doesn't work on: AB, CH, OS, SO

Throw Frame Advantage

Slayer's Throw Frame Advantage
Character Face Down Recovery Throw Frame advantage
A.B.A 52 +17
Anji 50 +15
Axl 49 +14
Baiken 50 +15
Bridget 48 +13
Chipp 46 +11
Dizzy 49 +14
Eddie 49 +14
Faust 54 +19
I-No 50 +15
Jam 50 +15
Johnny 49 +14
Justice 45 +10
Kliff 46 +11
Ky 49 +14
May 50 +15
Millia 48 +13
Order-Sol 49 +14
Potemkin 50 +15
Robo-Ky 49 +14
Slayer 48 +13
Sol 49 +14
Testament 51 +16
Venom 51 +16
Zappa 55 +20

Pebbles

Dead Angle Block Punishes

well in any case labwork is incomplete but heres a low effort breakdown

Can P pile/groundhit6H MI, RO

Can BBU: ABA, DI(2f), ED, FA(1f), MA(1f), IN, KY, MI, RO, SO

Can IB BBU but not NB BBU: VE, JA, OS, PO, SL, TE(1f)

Can NB 5K: VE, BR(1f), CH(1f), JA, OS, PO, SL, TE

2Ps only(if in range) AN(1f), BA(1f), ED, JU(1f),

Can slashback 2nd hit into some bullshit: ABA, BA

Nothing: AX, KL

Oki Gameplan

plan is:

default to meaty 6K > 1K or 1P link; try to hit 6K in later active frames

if you want to do stupid mindgames you do P/S dandy step into stuff, or empty dandy step into lows

space meaty cS out of throw range for easy to hitconfirm stuff thats good on block

space non meaty cS inside throw range if you want to check wakeup backdash, or gamble harder with nonmeaty 6Hes. if they throw do 6Ks

off rising jD knockdowns do jD j2K whiff airdash jH to get a wack meaty

The Zett

Xrd to +R

For grounded stuff you have everything in Xrd plus a lot of extra privileges. fS, 5K and 2K link into anything 7f and slower, i.e. they link into 5K, 2K, 2D, cS. Anything into 2D that is a crouch confirm in Xrd works on standing here. SSSS 2K2D works on standing. 5K 6P is a gatling and COMBOS ON CROUCH 2K 2S 2H and 2K 2H are delayed gatlings and are pretty important. 2S 2H does not always work on standing, but 2K 2H will always work. Ground hit 2H links into 2D or Big Bang Upper. Big Bang upper is your launcher and to go into it on grounded you need to route into 2H. So e.g. cSfS (cSfS) 2K2H BBU 5K 2K2H BBU air to ground is same as Xrd except you don't have air gatlings

Honnou

Chokka wording explanation

Q: What is Straight-Down Dandy (SDD)/ Direct Hit Dandy (DHD)/ Up and Close Dandy / Chokkagata / 直下型ダンディー?

A: Slayer's air super, 214214+S

DracoDragon42's Random stuff:

Mappa Loops

I think I'm gonna simplify mappa loops down like this:

Doesn't work on any lights except JU and KL

Doesn't work on hevyweights except Johnny and Pot (2P 5K)

doesn't work on sols

Everyone else it works

Quick 2-hit Chokka Explanation

Essentially you have to hit them in a way where both of those hitboxes hit there are also two types of 2-hits, the bad one and the good one the bad one is when both hit at the same time, because of priority stuff technically this makes the body hit first and the tail hit second. This means that they will suffer untech from the tail and not the body, the tail has very little untech time and essentially ends your combo right there The good one is where you line it up just right so the tail hits first, causing the opponent to go into their air hitstun animation which shifts their hurtbox to be more vertical. If you get it right, this hurtbox shifting will then immediately get hit by the body hitbox giving the body's untech time and wall bounce properties as you may have guessed, each character has their own hurtboxes in the air that very wildly, making this technique extremely character specific. Hitting the good 2-hit, though, easily leads to extremely damaging, super optimal combos. Some characters like pot and justice (I think) are essentially impossible to get a good 2-hit on because their hurtboxes are so big that they always get hit by both hits at the same time. There are also some characters where its incredibly difficult and requires precise spacing and timing to hit a specific air hurtbox frame, and there are also some characters where the good 2-hit is actually quite easy, like sol. But yeah, essentially that is how 2-hit air super works with Slayer.

Slayer Player Steam ID's for searching on the replay database

https://acpr.frameone.net/

Feel free to add any Slayer players to the list if you have edit privlages. If not, you can DM me on discord (DracoDragon42#3640) and I'll put it up here. I just need the link to their profile.

  • Tanabata -> 76561199103873773
  • DracoDragon42(me) -> 76561198329169321
  • Rymaru -> 76561198003486476
  • Eel -> 76561197976133068
  • Daymendou -> 76561198000143919 (I don't think he plays quick match much though)

Pot matchup notes

Pot is a hard matchup, you have to fundamentally play slayer differently in order to succeed against pot and even then it's still difficult. Any normal pressure strings can be pot buster'd so you have to change how you run offence. Use a lot of 6K, 5P, and 2P. 5P hits pot crouching so it's good and it chains into itself and other things. Be prepared to almost completely sacrifice oki, between pot buster and backdash oki can be hard to enforce, j.H safe jump and 6K are still good though.

Ive found that P mappa can be decent to end strings with as it will catch armor from Hammer fall and usually pushes back enough to be out of pot buster range. if you know pot buster is coming iad j.D footloose is a decent way of dealing with it that will also beat hammer fall, but can be buster punishable if the footloose lands too close. BDC is also incredibly helpful in this matchup to both escape pot offence as well as dodge pot buster attempts. Sadly, Pot buster has neither counter hit recovery or startup, and the recovery is suprisingly short so punishing pot buster can be very difficult.

Slayer tends to do well against pot in neutral if you are patient and careful. Farther ranged pokes like 5H and f.S can be counter poked by 6P, you can react to slide head with jump, BDC, or 2H (which will punish). Hammerfall can be beat on reaction by dandy step > Crosswise heel, or by canceling a normal, like 5K, into mappa or Dandy step. Pots jump buttons are also pretty easily anti-aired by 2S, except for j.D. I have also found that feinting jump ins with jump forward jp airdash back j.H is quite effective at longer ranges, as pot doesn't really have anything to outright beat it, and if pot commits to something grounded, like slide head, you can usually airdash in and punish.

IL Oki Notes

IL is a good oki tool cause you can mix it up with 2K, forward dash, delay Bite, and many other things that usually are throwable. IL is throw invul on startup allowing good conditioning and reads to lead to a high damaging counter hit. As for Dps and reversals, Your best friend is 6K. 6K will safe jump many reversals if done meaty, is an overhead, and is throw invul through active frames (you just don't get much reward without corner, meter or both, and counterhit doesn't do much). You also need to keep in mind that on most knockdowns you can't do both dandy step and 6K, you have to change how you do oki slightly to utilize 6K. Some reversals are hard to impossible to get a safejump with 6K, but you still have other options. You are able to use S dandy or forward dash to cross people up messing up their inputs. You are also able to do P dandy and block as a sort of feint to bait a DP. After P dandy you can also do BDC K dandy (full sequence would be P dandy>BDC Kdandy) to make a lot of reversals whiff. Lastly, after j.D knockdown in the corner you can do bdc iad j.H as an actual safejump which should be safe to most reversals. Anything past this is going to be specific to the reversal you are baiting.

Slayer Styles

Pressure
  • BDC everything - abuse minus frames and prevent the opponent from challenging your pressure
  • Plus frames plus delay - Use good buttons that are usually plus and mix in delays and other attacks to mix up your opponent
  • Counter poke - Use 6P, 2H, 6K, and dandies to go through things and counter poke them
  • Resets - Don't use many knockdowns, reset from 5K and 2H hits, Iad and forward dash a lot
  • Hard callouts - wait until the right moment and callout an option with 6H, Pile, Undertow, 6P, etc
  • Spacing - Stay at far range and poke and walk with 5K and such
  • Mixups - Use a lot of 6K, 2K, and FDC bite to keep the opponent guessing
Neutral
  • Patient Mappa - wait until the right moment and Mappa/BDC Mappa/FDC mappa to whiff punish or just get in through attacks
  • Jump around - Jump around out of range and look for an opening to airdash in, use j.2K and a lot of j.P
  • Reactive Counter poke - Wait for the opponent to do something and counter poke/anti air with 6P, 2S, 2H, or dandies
  • Dash through - BDC or FDC through the opponents approaches in neutral to put yourself in a good position
  • Preemptive Pokes/counterpokes - Use 6H, 6P, 2D, 5P mash, and Dandy (CWH) to put out preemptive hitboxes to stop approaches
  • Send it - Use Dandies, Mappa, and Iad to get in, don't wait much, just go, mixup approach with air actions and BDC/FDC
  • Safe pokes - Use 5K/2K/5P to throw out safe preemptive pokes
  • Dandy Distance - Space out dandy step and use it to fake out/as a movement tool. Strong utilization of Pilebunker and CWH

Strategy notes

So I've been thinking lately about when and why to use BDC vs 6P/2H/6K vs Dandy step and I think I'm starting to figure it out. I'm gonna write my thoughts out here:

BDC

BDC can go through any kind of attack but generally has the least reward. BDC runs into problems with moves with a lot of active frames. The only BDC option that actually carries over it's invul to the hitbox is FB dandy Pile, which shouldn't be used that much (it does cost meter). BDC mappa at best gets you a counter hit but usualy mappa is used as a whiff punish. Undertow scales a ton. IAD can go over the opponent, can whiff, or can be anti aired. Jump or back iad is mainly used for avoidence, it sends back to neutral. BDC dandy is essentially just a combination of Dandy and BDC benefits, but again, both still lose to lots of active frames. This can be circumvented somewhat by delaying your BDC for more backdash invul but at that point the move has most likely already recovered. Bite is actually quite good but it has limited range and can't be delayed at all. This makes me wonder if using FDC in place of BDC sometimes would be strong.

The other benefit of BDC is it has low recovery and is really hard to punish, even on a read. A lot of times during your backdash you can re-asses the situation and do something different. Like instead of going for a delayed dandy bdc, go for a jump forward jpppp. BDC is the most flexible and the most safe out of all of the options.

6P/6K/2H

6P/6K/2H, or as I'll refer to them, "counter pokes", have sort of the opposite strengths and weaknesses of BDC. Firstly, you can only get upper or lower body invul so it doesn't work on everything. They also have startup to them so they can't really be used as reversals or anything (although they are great in pressure and can be used as defensive abare tools). The counter pokes are actually quite good against active frames though. As long as their hitbox doesn't hit you, you should be able to hit them and nullify their hitbox before your move recovers. Like Kliff 2D for example. You can easily counter poke it with 2H despite its incredible active frames. Counter pokes are also more commital. Once you press them, you have to do them and you go through a decent amount of recovery (quite a bit with 2H). This means if you time them poorly you can get whiff punished or counter poked or whatever. One of the big benefits is they have strong, consistent reward, and they also get counter hits more often than BDC. 6P counter hit can lead to enourmous damage and 2H gets a stable knockdown, or a good chunk of damage with meter.

Dandy steps

I'm still not quite sure where the Dandy steps fit into all of this. They have the best rewared on whiff punish, worst being a 80 damage pilebunker, best being CWH for corner carry and knockdown. The problem with Dandy step is that they are very commital and lose to a lot of the same things as BDC. I guess the main benefit of dandy step is the movement and the hitboxes. Pilebunker is a fast, huge disjoint, and crosswise heel shrinks your hurtbox to the size of a tic tac. Dandy steps can also be used as feints/setups to confuse your opponent.

When I was playing some slayer mirrors lately, I realized I could just wait and react for them to do dandy step, press 2D and get a counter hit. The counter to this would be Dandy FRC, but no one uses it except me.

I think Dandy step should be thought of as an enhancement to BDC. S dandy on its own isn't really that good, but with BDC it becomes very strong. P and K dandy become a lot more flexible once you add FDC and BDC into the mix. Even FB dandy gets better if you BDC it. But you don't always want to BDC, it just gives you more options.

graphing stuff and looking at data

Theres like a scale I think. X axis is speed, Y axis is Invul. More invul, less speed. Less speed, more invul. It would be intersting to graph all that out actually, just to see the data. I might try it on desmos.

Tried it out on desmos. Seeing a visual helped a bit. It's a linear relationship, more delay on bdc = more invul and more startup. This should have been obvious. However what was important was the comparison between K and P dandy. It seems from the data that P dandy is always gonna be faster with better invul as long as you delay it more. K dandy can get more invul (both actual invul and being out of range) but it also has more startup. They both seem pretty close though, so low delay K dandy is similar to high delay P dandy. Also the backdash goes invisible which makes whats happening much more ambiguous. BDC P dandy should be used more than K dandy in general unless you need range or more invul.

Seems like BDC P mappa is the best for invul and speed. BDC FB Dandy is super super super good for everything. FB Dandy has much more invul AND can be almost as fast as p mappa. But FB dandy uses meter.

BDC IAD

I think that BDC IAD is really strong when used well, especially in tandem with Slayer's other options mentioned above. Cause if you think about it, the opponent isn't ever really gonna wanna anti-air as a response to minus frames. Theyre gonna try to do something against Slayers other BDC options. Backdash, long active low, projectile, dash up throw, dash up button, jab into long active frame move, etc. Iad kinda wins against all of them. I think Delay BDC IAD is where its at though. Long invul and it also helps make sure that the IAD doesn't land at a weird spot.

So something EEL does that I just realized is that almost every time he does BDC IAD, he jumps BACK. I think the direction you jump is actually super important. Jumping backwards makes it more like an aerial Dandy step and also helps to space you out better. I always jump forwards and end up at shitty spacing. I never really thought about how jump angle effects things.

summary

BDC is used for low active frames but any kind of hitbox. It is the most flexible and hardest for the opponent to react to/understand. It can be inconsistent and usually gives low reward, but all the different options make it tricky

BDC IAD is really strong when used properly and at the right spacing. Approaching in the air after a backdash makes BDC much harder to understand as the opponent. BDC IAD only really loses to the opponent waiting and reacting to anti air or the opponent pressing a long active anti air button (justice 2H), and sometimes a low profile options (sol 2D)

Counter pokes are used against specific moves with any amount of active frames. Counter pokes are the least flexible and easiest for the opponent to understand and whiff punish. Counter pokes give consistent reward and can even give really strong combos

Dandys are used for access to good hitboxes and movement. Dandys can be reacted to but can also be empty and used to feint and confuse the opponent. Dandys have the most reward on whiff punish (better than mappa) but lose to active frames. BDC and FDC strongly enhance all versions of Dandy step. Dandy FRC can be used as a counter measure to reactions.

FB dandy is incredibly strong and is able to be used in almost any way. It mainly loses to throws on startup (although its late exists lmao). Tons of invul, quick access to dandy followups, and forward movement make it super strong, especially if Dash cancelled. It uses meter however, which is an important resource for Slayer's strong combos.

2P 5H testing

2P 5H should catch jumps against everyone on hit

2P 5H catching jumps on block
Char Catches jump
A.B.A Catches all modes
Anji Catches only FD
Axl Catches
Baiken Catches difficult
Bridget Catches
Chipp Catches only FD
Dizzy Catches
Eddie Catches
Faust Catches
I-No Catches difficult
Jam Doesn't catch at all
Justice Catches difficult
Johnny Catches only FD
Kliff Catches
Ky Catches
May Doesn't catch at all
Millia Catches only FD
Order-Sol Catches
Potemkin Catches
Robo-Ky Catches
Slayer Catches
Sol Catches
Testament Catches difficult
Venom Catches difficult
Zappa Catches

Many characters can avoid the 5H if they FD to shrink their hitbox in the air, but I don't wanna test it right now

BDC and FDC Invul transfer

Slayer's BDC and FDC in plus R have their invul transfer overwritten by other sources of invul. So If you do immediate BDC P dandy (21447P) you will still only have 3 frames of invul on the P dandy step. Forward dash invul transfer is direct, as in however many invul frames you have left is exactly how many invul frames transfer. BDC on the other hand transfers 7 invul frames up until frame 10 where it starts to go down 1 invul transfer frame ever next frame of the backdash. So frame 1-9 has 7 transfer, frame 10 has 6 transfer, frame 11 has 5, frame 12 has 4, and so on until 0. Keep in mind that you start having 0 transfer before the backdash invul is over. Also keep in mind that in most cases, invul transfer doesn't really matter all that much. What matters is using the backdash to make something whiff and then punish with a mappa or whatever, so transfer isn't super important and doing BDCs quickly isn't super important, although the quicker you can be, the more moves you can punish with BDC.

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