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Dreize

[CP] Valkenhayn Combo Thread - I'll Shred Your Flesh! (Updated: 04/15/14)

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No, it doesn't have more corner carry and that combo doesn't even work because mondlicht has SMP. Not to mention the fact that you're never going to get a tk.214B starter like that.

You can't just stick two tk.214B's in your combo like that.

Also, I'll test this IAD > j.B > j.A > j.B > 2C when I get on just to make sure, sounds very dubious.

Edit: Doesn't work.

Edited by Dreize

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It works on Amane, Azrael, and Kagura but it's much stricter. You have to hit as early as possible with 3c otherwise it will whiff.

Yeah, you're right here. The timing seems to be REALLY strict though.

@Dreize: I think Kiba simply meant that he knew him a while ago but Tonberry simply never posted here.

Tried what Sine said. It seems that you can do 2 mondlicht indeed in a combo but you can only do IAD>jD>jAA afterwards. I can't manage to land a h5B after that though. Couldn't manage to do jBAB however whether it was in human or wolf mode.

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Didn't try it off of a raw mondlicht because we're never going to land one in an actual match. Tried it off of 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD], and I couldn't red beat it (though admittedly I didn't spent too much time on it).

Have you tested it's use off of 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD]?

Because if it doesn't work off of that then it's completely impractical, and even if it does work off of that unless it's relatively easy to do in comparison to 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5D > h[2C], etc it's still pretty impractical.

I will say that it's an interesting concept, and it'd be cool if it worked and was practical.

Tried what Sine said. It seems that you can do 2 mondlicht indeed in a combo but you can only do IAD>jD>jAA afterwards. I can't manage to land a h5B after that though. Couldn't manage to do jBAB however whether it was in human or wolf mode.

I'm sure that you can do 2 in a combo but you're not going to get much afterwards, SMP doesn't always necessarily blue beat the combo immediately after, it just reduces the amount of time you have to combo. You certainly can't do this: 2147B IAD J.BAB 2C 2147B 9d jAC 236B j.3D jD 5b j.b j.b J.c

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Uhm?

I don't know Tonberry per se but I know of him.

Also I modified the 6C combo in the beginner combos section. Also, I'm not too sure about the 2C combo being there only because the chances of that happening is quite low.

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Yeah I get your point dude and I know how SMP works. What I was curious however was whether it was possible or not to really get a proper combo and end it with 2 mondlicht.

I did: w5C>6D>wjA>5D>5B>5C>tk214B>IAD>jD>wjAA>5D>5B>5C>tk214B>IAD>wjAA. Not only the timing was strict for the last wjAA but it was impossible to connect a 5B afterwards meaning no proper combo ender so no oki afterwards.

Hence my previous post, this is not a route that is possible.

As for Sine's combo, you need the opponent to be really close and on the ground to make it work. It works with 2C>tk214B as a starter. It doesn't work with 5C because of the pushback.

The only situation I can think of where you can land this is in a blockstring with 236A>RC>2C frame trap considering that 2C isn't that great as a meaty midscreen

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Midscreen to corner: w5B > 5C > 1DCA > 5D > h[5C > tk.214B > 6D > 5D > 236C > 6D > 5D > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > j.C] [3286 Dmg, 23HG]

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I'm having a lot of trouble with the wj.A -> 5D. For some reason my transform back to valk either happens too later or never happens at all. Anyone have any tips on something to look for, for the timing on this? It's drivin me crazy ha. Thanks in advance.

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I'm having a lot of trouble with the wj.A -> 5D. For some reason my transform back to valk either happens too later or never happens at all. Anyone have any tips on something to look for, for the timing on this? It's drivin me crazy ha. Thanks in advance.

Check out the F.A.Q on the first page.

3. The j.A > 5D > h[5B] part of this combo 5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] blue beats/drops, and when it doesn't drop it comes out as j.A > 5D > w[5B]. What am I doing wrong?

Answer: The j.A > 5D > h[5B] needs to be inputted fairly quickly, if it's dropping then you're not executing it fast enough. If it helps you can try sliding your finger from 5D to h[5B]. Likewise, if you get j.A > 5D > w[5B] you're inputting the 5D too quickly.

It's most likely a speed issue. No special trick involved.

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Can't believe I missed that after reading through the first page 4 times :x, thanks!

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I was doing my execution practice with wolf loops and instant overheads for day and realized...

w5B > 5C > [3D > 4C]x3 > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [4014Dmg, 28HG]

w5B > 5C > [3D > 4C]x4 > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [4182Dmg, 30HG]

This seems more optimal for wolf meter usage than 4 loops I posted before, so it might be better to leave out 1 loop from the max you can do at least on this combo path.

EDIT: Decided to to the other combos to compare.

wj.B > 5C > [3D > 4C]x3 > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [3829Dmg, 26HG]

wj.B > 5C > [3D > 4C]x4 > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [3670Dmg, 27HG]

wj.C > 5B > 5C > [3D > 4C]x2 > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [3899Dmg, 27HG]

wj.C > 5B > 5C > [3D > 4C]x3 > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [4064Dmg, 29HG]

Decent w5A combos that I didn't see on the front page.

Corner: w5A > 5B > 5C > [3D > 4C]x2 > 1DCA > 5D > h[5C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [2875Dmg, 20HG]

Corner: w5A/j.5A > 5C > [3D > 4C]x3 > 1DCA > 5D > h[5C > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [2995/2926Dmg, 21HG]

Slightly more damaging and less wolf meter usage of the w5B > IAD loop combo.

Midscreen: w5A > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > sjc > j.5D] > j.AA > long delay > falling j.B > 5B > IAD > j.A > j.B (> 5B > j.B) [2191(2348)Dmg, 15(16)HG]

Edited by KaiserCX

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I have a question regarding this combo.

What would be the benefits of doing this combo

j.B > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C]

vs

j.B > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 5C > tk.214B > 66 > 5C > sjc > j.B > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C]

The latter of the two leads to more damage. Also, if I do a dash forward after the j.C and do a 2P, the 2P whiffs in the invincibility frames of their knockdown tech, where as with the first combo the 2P connects. That makes me think that the second combo gives you more time to set up oki. I'm still new to Valkenhayn, so I'm curious to hear y'all's opinion on this.

Edited by Grublet

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The first one is a falling jC ender. The end of the combo should actually be ...>jAAA>jC>djD>h[jC]>(h[jC])

Basically, this ender ends quite high and allow you to do a second jC while falling. If the opponent is emergency teching, he won't be affected. However, if the opponent plans to delay tech which is actually the most common option high players do against Valk, they will get hit by the second jC and you will land right away granting you enough time to observe your opponent and see how he will tech to meaty accordingly. The okizeme thread got much more informations about combo enders and oki following afterwards. I would highly suggest you to read it.

Also, falling jC enders gives terrible oki if the opponent emergency tech. The problem is that the opponent just has to observe what kind of enders you're doing to decide if he/she should emergency tech so this is by no means a reliable way to deal with delayed tech. I'm however actually writing a guide to deal with it and I'm almost done so you will soon be able to understand how to avoid this kind of situation. I would suggest you however to avoid learning falling jC enders. I found a new, easier and more damaging way to deal with delayed tech.

It's actually so silly that both Kiba and I felt dumb when we realized it.

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So I dunno if people already knew about it, but I recently discovered the w5C after h236C route. I think it works universally off fatal and most of the cast normally. Here's a few combos I came up with using it:

6B FC > 2C > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 2DD] > 2C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C [4240 DMG, 30 HG]

[25%] 6B(1) FC > CT > 2C > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > j.236B > 2DD] > 2C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C [4960 DMG, 18 HG]

(CO) 2C > 6B > 5B > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > j.236B > 2DD] > 2C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C [4274 DMG, 30 HG]*

(CO) 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 2DD] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C [4068 DMG, 29 HG]

(CO) 5B > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > j.C > j.236B > 2DD] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C [3985 DMG, 28 HG]*

Of course all of these can have sturm added. As for 236B, you can do it off the two with asterisks. For the others, it will work but they'll tech in the air.

Also, on all of these you can just do w[236A > 5D] > 2C (omit the air cannon) if you want to save some wolf meter. They still do pretty good damage.

Lastly, my favorite. It's an alternate FC combo that I think is way cooler (and does a tiny bit more damage), but unfortunately it doesn't work on everyone.

6B FC > 2C > 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236B > 3DD] > 3C > 236B~236B > 2D > w[4C > j.A] > 5C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C [4248 DMG, 30 HG]

EDIT: Guess I should improve on my previous rising j.C combos with this, too:

(CO) j.C > RC > j.C > (5B >) 5C > 236C > 2D > w[5C > 236A > 5D] > 2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 2C > j.214B > 6C > 3C > 236B/632146D Schwarz:[3864 DMG, 16 HG] Sturm:[4830 DMG, 16 HG]

EDIT 2: I tested the 236C > w5C route on the whole cast. It does work on everyone off fatal. Otherwise,

It works on: relius, makoto, taokaka, hazama, hakumen, bullet, ragna, litchi, terumi, noel, amane, jin, arakune, carl, rachel, kokonoe, valkenhayn, bang

It doesn't work on: mu, kagura, tager, azrael, izayoi, tsubaki, platinum, nu

Edited by Shyn

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Hmm I just found out that you can combo off of wj.214A/B CH with w5C by doing the wolf brake 5C.

Midscreen: wj.214A/B CH > [3D > 4C] > 6D > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236B > 1/2DD > h[2C > 6B > tk.214b > 66 > 5C > j.B > dj.B > dj.C] [3146 Dmg, 22 HG]

Corner: wj.214A/B CH > [3D > 4C] x 3 > 6D > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [3560 Dmg, 25 HG]

Corner: wj.214A/B CH > [3D > 4C] x 4 > 6D > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C > 3C] [3711 Dmg, 26 HG]

Edited by KaiserCX

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Looking at these combos has shown me just how unoptimal some of my confirms have been. Shyn those combos are real good stuff, and 3.7k from a beast cannon is pretty cool stuff Kaiser.

Thanks for taking the time to experiment and post the information. Appreciate it.

@Shyn: the 5C combo isn't working for me. The 2nd wj.C is killing the combo.

Edited by Kiba

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I found this for a better midscreen 6A CH confirm: 6A CH > 5B > j.B > j.214B > 6D > w[j.236A > j.236B > (delay) 3D > j.A > j.C ] > j.D > j.C [2303 DMG, 16 HG]

Seems easier to do/more stable as well. Not sure if the thread is up to date, but it looks better than the current one listed.

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Has anyone tried ch 6a> 5c> [w]ja yet? It lead to good damage in extend.

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

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I found this for a better midscreen 6A CH confirm: 6A CH > 5B > j.B > j.214B > 6D > w[j.236A > j.236B > (delay) 3D > j.A > j.C ] > j.D > j.C [2303 DMG, 16 HG]

Seems easier to do/more stable as well. Not sure if the thread is up to date, but it looks better than the current one listed.

It was updated on the 1st December...

I dunno about it being more easier/stable but I suppose that's subjective.

Has anyone tried ch 6a> 5c> [w]ja yet? It lead to good damage in extend.

Yes, though it's not getting much more damage than CH 6A > 5B.

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Interesting I'm gonna mess around with that then. I mostly want corner carry, so long as I get that I'm fine with it.

Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk

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I found this for a better midscreen 6A CH confirm: 6A CH > 5B > j.B > j.214B > 6D > w[j.236A > j.236B > (delay) 3D > j.A > j.C ] > j.D > j.C [2303 DMG, 16 HG]

Seems easier to do/more stable as well. Not sure if the thread is up to date, but it looks better than the current one listed.

The wjC>djD>djC>(jC) ender gives crappy oki if the opponent emergency tech. Falling jC enders are usually used against opponents who abuse delayed techs but the problem with your combo is that you're not high enough to do a falling jC so there is no point in doing it for that result. Finally, you use a bit more wolf gauge than the one listed in the combo thread so even though your combo do slightly more damage, the one listed in the combo thread is much more rewarding.

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tbh Magaki I don't think falling j.C is all that bad even if they emergency tech. (in the corner) But other than that I agree w/ what you've been saying...

I'll double check the 5C combo when I get back, Kiba. If not then yeah just omit one of the wj.Cs.

Also, I noticed the route works midscreen as well if you do a wolf brake into w5C. Like ...236C>6D>w[j.4C>5C>236A... It depends on spacing a lot but it can be pretty good for midscreen fatals. If you're just barely close enough to the corner, you can do the whole corner combo even if w236A crosses up. (You need to double jump back instead of forward on the second wj.C to get the following 2C to connect). If they're any closer to the corner, it just works the same as it does normally.

Edited by Shyn

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