Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

Recommended Posts

BBCP_Header_Gameplay_Discussion.png

So yea let's get into this.

General game system changes:

  • Bursts now regenerate instead of preset number of bursts per match like in Continuum Shift. Using Break Burst completely depletes the OD gauge. Startup is faster.
    • Gold Burst replaced with Overdrive. Overdrive can be used with A+B+C+D when not blocking or taking damage. Temporarily powers up certain abilities. While activated, the timer countdown is stopped, and DDs have altered animations and properties. OD duration is inversely proportional to health, and canceling into OD activation reduces the active duration.

      After use, 3/4 of the OD gauge is depeleted and the OD icon becomes unusable. The OD gauge recovers with time, and OD can again be used once it has fully recovered. The OD icon starts as usable in Round 1, and carries over to successive rounds without recovering. Both players can go into OD at the same time if it is available to them.
      • Combos done while in Overdrive are un-burstable.
        • Guard Primers removed, replaced with Crush Trigger. Press 5A+B to perform an attack that can break your opponent's guard unless they're using Barrier. On Barrier Block, a large portion of the Barrier Gauge is drained, and the attacker can charge the Crush Trigger to drain more of the Barrier Gauge. Amount of barrier gauge depeleted varies between characters. Crush Triggers costs 25% Heat.
          • Air/Ground teching is now done by holding A/B/C input (like P4U) instead of mashing it.
            • Astral Heat (AH) conditions changed. You only need to have your opponent at low health and have 100 heat now. You do not need a burst or OD to use it.
              • Hitstop has been lessened and combos are intended to be shorter/faster.
                • Repeat proration is more severe, and "same attack combo" appears on the screen when repeat proration is applied. Starter affects the amount of time you have to combo with.

                  [*]When you enter Negative Penalty your barrier gauge will automatically be reduced to zero. It will automatically begin to regenerate like normal when you exit out of negative penalty.

                  Valkenhayn BBCP changes

                  Valkenhayn Overdrive info

                    [*]Called Endlos Volf which recharges the wolf gauge faster.

                    [*]Rapidly regenerates fully depleted wolf meter.

                    [*]w[j.214A/B] ground bounces in OD.

                    [*]j.C and 6C becomes drive/wolf cancellable.

                    [*]Rasenwolf has faster movement and startup.

                    [*]Wolf cannons are faster.

                    [*]Both DDs are stronger. Sturm Wolf in OD uses the flash kick animation that Valkenhayn does in his astral. Konig Flug in OD uses the w[j.236/236A > AAAAA] animation that Valkenhayn currently uses in unlimited mode.

                    From Movelist

                      [*]Rasenwolf (Wolf movement) command changed to direction + D

                      [*]Command Grab input has been changed from 236D to 236C.

                      [*]There has been a command change for wolf brake (no longer w[5CC/5C > 3C]). It is now 1C, 4C or 7C.

                      [*]New Move: w[j.C] (An overhead. Hits with back of feet.)

                      [*]New Move: w[5C] (Sweep that downs on hit)

                      [*]New Move: Crush Trigger 5A+B (A forward kick based on a karate move known as 'Brazillian Kick')

                      Buffs

                        [*]5C, 3C and 2C can now be cancelled into geschwind wolf (drive/wolf cancellable)

                        [*]6C frame advantage increased from +2 to +5.

                        [*]236B~236B has faster startup

                        [*]236C Floats lower.

                        [*]236A has much less blowback on air hit now.

                        [*]w[236C]: Damage increased to 1.5k

                        [*]j.214B floats lower. More untech time?

                        [*]New CH exception. 2B CH > 6B works.

                        [*]Throw:better proration? floats lower.

                        [*]Wolf Gauge consumption is lower.

                        [*]Backdash startup decreased from 16 - 13 frames.

                        Nerfs

                          [*]w[5A] is no longer a low.

                          [*]w[5B] does not launch.

                          [*]6B no longer forces crouch and is 1 frame slower.

                          [*]6B gatlings gone.

                          [*]2A jump cancel gone.

                          [*]Command grab into 2C does not work. Use 2B instead.

                          [*]Wolf Gauge regeneration is slower.

                          [*]Overall damage and heat gain reduced.

                          Combos

                            [*]All wolf combo pickups besides wolfJBJBB. The B König route causes the opponent to float too much, so adjust height with 4D. For aerial enders, König>6D or 7D>human JBJBJC currently requires pretty strict height adjustments, so 7D human JC might be better.

                            [*]For sticking crush trigger (hence refered to as CT) in Valk combos, corner throw > CT, and TK214B > CT in the corner. An airhit causes a high-floating floor bounce, so 2C6C connects. Does decent damage

                            [*]6B>5C>Rosen>[6D>D]>2C>6C>Mond licht>[bAB Cannon>2D>wj.C>jc>JD]>j.B>j.C>Air DD dmg:5489

                            [*][w.5A>w.5B>w.5C>6D>w.JA>w.5B>2 or 3 beast cannons>A Eisenwolf] or 6D>D>j.C

                            [*][w.5A>w.5B>w.5C>6D>w.j.A>D]>5B>5C>j.B>j.B>j.C

                            [*][(w.5B>)w.5C>6D>wj.A>D]>5B>2C>6C>2C>6B>Mond licht>[3 cannons>A Eisenwolf]

                            [*][(w.5B>)w.5C>6D>wj.A>w.5B>2 or 3 cannons]>>6D>wj.B>wj.B>w.5B]>j.B>j.B>j.C

                            [*]236A can be followed up with 2A in the corner on air hit.

                            Other

                              [*]Valkenhayn's Theme

                              [*]Colours 1-6

                              [*]Colours 7-16

                              [*]GG colour Reference is Slayer (Palette 11)

                              [*]Anime colour reference is Oki from Okami (Palette 13)

                              [*]Alternate BB colour reference is Rachel (Palette 14)

                              [*]Persona colour reference is Koromaru from Persona 3 (Palette 15)

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Thanks Kiba. We needed a thread with a maintained first post. :P

              Figured I'd mention what I remember from when I was in Japan...

              6B>3C is in fact gone.

              OD stuff: rasenwolf is faster (startup and I think movement speed), cannons are faster, I think w[j.214A] also ground bounces.

              You can also combo into CT from TK j.214B.

              Wolf gauge tends to drain slower (as well as recharge slower).

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Wait wait wait. You guys lose a shit ton of combo rate, and then get a whole buncha P1 100s? Is everyone in CP like this?

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites
              Do you mean 6B > 2B?

              Oops, yes. Fixed.

              In the corner, I've been seeing: 6B > 2B > 3C > 236A > 2A > 2C. We may also be able to do 6B > 2B > 5C > 236B~236B > 5D > w[j.A] > 5D.

              For midscreen, we may be able to do: 6B > 2B > 2C > 236C.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Well you can link 6B>2B, yeah. You could do that before. You can also link 6B>5B on a crouching hit, like before.

              I think, in general, they'll be too far away to do a 2C afterward, though.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              That's the point though, we're trying to figure out what options we have left now that our character has been changed/weakened.

              Since 6B has a vacuum effect linking a 2C after 6B > 2B should be possible. It's definitely possible in Extend.

              If for some reason the opponent is too far away we can opt for 2B > 5C > 236B > RC > 5C > j.D, etc.

              Or we can just end it at 236B~236B if we don't want to spend the meter (or don't have it).

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Sorry! I misinterpreted the "we have 6B > 2B now" as meaning it was a change. So I thought you were thinking it was a gatling or something....

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              No need to apologize man, I probably didn't word it in the best of ways. I meant "now" as this is what option we will be using now instead of what we previously used which was mainly 6B > 3C and 6B > 5C.

              By the way, thanks for the info regarding the ability to CT after a tk.214B. I can tell that I'm going to have a lot of fun with that.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              I remember hearing something about rising [h]j.C IOH no longer working against anyone except Tager and Hakumen. Do we have any confirmation on that?

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Yea, not sure why that happens against Bang, Hakumen and I think Arakune for that matter.

              In that case, it may still possible for him to do throw > AH against those chars?

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              It only really happens when I do 236C very early in the throw animation.

              I've never been able to AH Arakune off of a throw, but we should still be able to AH Bang and Hakumen.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Got it down. I can't believe I also forgot to add the fact that Valkenhayn's overall damage and HG has decreased, being an obvious nerf (Decreased HG being universal however). I've changed the first post. I've now divided his changes into buffs and nerfs. I figure that's easier to scout.

              I think that Uma no Hone is relatively solid, just not as good as the aforementioned 3. He's in the same tier as NAOO, in my opinion. It would go:

              S: Hima, Masashi, Zekuso

              A: Uma no Hone, NAOO

              B: People like Suuya and Jamuwo, the list goes on

              C: A select few such as Lolicon and Gagaga

              Give or take a few more in each tier (aside from S) since I merely named a few off of the top of my head. I'm sure that quite a few players will improve, though.

              I find it interesting that you bring this up. I actually don't disagree with this.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Nice idea, it looks good.

              Our buffs are awkward. Wolf command grab damage buff barely matters since we're still doing less damage off of the follow-up combo then what we were doing in Extend. It's kinda nice for when we use it mid-screen/grounded/meterless though.

              At this point, I'm convinced that our grounded throw has better proration.

              We should not be getting these damage values in CP off of cornered grounded throws:

              Forward Throw > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [2969 DMG, 22 HG]

              or

              Forward Throw > 2C > 6C > 2C > tk.214B > 2D > w[236B > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A] [2912 DMG, 21 HG]

              If you compare the damage values to our Extend counter-part, they are eerily similar.

              Not quite sure if the Nacht Rosen floating lower change was a buff, it's just a change really. We lost combo routes, and gained new ones. Same thing with the Nacht Jager blowback change.

              I do, however, believe that Mondlicht got buffed. From what I can tell regarding Mondlicht, we didn't really lose anything and we seemed to have gained a few new combo routes.

              Who knows how things will progress moving forward, though.

              I find it interesting that you bring this up. I actually don't disagree with this.

              Yeah, it seemed like a pretty solid list at the time. Glad you agree.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              What did we lose with the Rosen change? Seems like a clear-cut buff to me....

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Rosen seems to have opened new and stronger? combo routes for us, being the 6D > j.C > dj.C and 6DD > human stuff. That'll make it a buff.

              Less blowback on 236A may go both ways I suppose. It helps us with getting to our opponent quicker with wolf cancels (spending less wolf meter at that) but it also reduces the corner carry. Guess it needs to be explored but I'll leave it where it is now.

              Dreize if your list is going from strongest to weakest, for me S tier would be Hima > Zekuso > Masashi. You can disregard this if it was in no particular order however.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Did we not lose the 9D > w[j.B > j.A] > 5D > 2C > 6C, etc link from a grounded 236C confirm? That link entailed some of our most damaging mid-screen to corner combo's. Not to mention the fact that it had great corner carry for such little wolf meter usage (aside from the initial 9D).

              Obviously now we can do things such as 6B FC > 2C > 5C > 236C > 2C > 6C, etc in the corner and 5C CH > 236C > 6D > 5D > 2C > 6C when we're relatively close to the corner.

              The whole 6D > w[j.C > dj.C] combo route is more so related to us gaining new wolf normals, and less related to the actual Nacht Rosen changes.

              We lost a bit, and gained a bit. I'll personally miss the 9D > w[j.B > j.A] > 5D > 2C > 6C, etc combo's, other's might not. I do like the 236C > 2C > 6C, etc combo's in the corner though, as we actually get to omit the w[j.B > j.A] in places that we don't need/want it.

              Regardless, we'll still be doing less damage then in Extend. Aside from some of the new wolf normal starters. A cornered 5B confirm leading into 3857 damage is probably the closest thing that we currently have to Extend damage from a human starter, which is pretty great in my opinion.

              It'll be interesting to see how Valkenhayn progresses, though.

              Dreize if your list is going from strongest to weakest, for me S tier would be Hima > Zekuso > Masashi. You can disregard this if it was in no particular order however.

              I hadn't considered it. I'd unquestionably put Hima as 1st, and it would be a toss up between Masashi and Zekuso for 2nd and 3rd. They both excel in different area's, but I'd probably settle on Masashi for 2nd since he seems to be more comfortable with CP thus far. Zekuso is still amazing, though.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Thought maybe you were talking about w[j.B>j.A].... I dunno. Didn't miss it with the new pathways.

              Anyways, it looks like 4D does have at least some invuln on it:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iFwabm7I3ko#t=215s

              I was pretty sure it did, but I couldn't remember for sure so I didn't mention it till now...

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              Yea definately.

              Thanks for pointing that out.

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites

              We should not be getting these damage values in CP off of cornered grounded throws:

              Forward Throw > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C [2969 DMG, 22 HG]

              or

              Forward Throw > 2C > 6C > 2C > tk.214B > 2D > w[236B > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A] [2912 DMG, 21 HG]

              If you compare the damage values to our Extend counter-part, they are eerily similar.

              2.9k similar to 4.7k :psyduck:

              Share this post


              Link to post
              Share on other sites
              Guest
              This topic is now closed to further replies.

              ×