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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Gameplay Discussion

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Once again, I'm dying. From laughter. We've got loops.

Without OD from a h[5B] starter in the corner: Here.

With level 3 OD from a w[5C] starter in the corner: Here.

This is absolutely hilarious. We seem to have these nonsensical looking highly wolf meter intensive loops that seem to do solid damage. If this ends up being practical+doesn't get patched I will be quite pleased (that would be quite funny). It really doesn't look all that hard in comparison to our other stuff and it seems as though we can incorporate it in our midscreen combo's as well. "Wolf Sweep Loops", hah.

And lastly, our first 7k+ damaging combo. Sure, it's from a 6B FC starter in the corner and uses 75 heat+OD, but I'm just happy that we can actually do 7k+: Here.

:toot:

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The corner 5B combo seems quite practical (Highly dependant on how hard the 236B > 236B > [wj.A] combo is). Sure it's extremely expensive in wolf meter but you get nearly half of it back from the rest of the combo. It just means you have to opt to use less wolf meter on your next confirm, or opt for command grab. Nevertheless, that was very interesing to see despite its craziness.

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I was thinking the exact same thing regarding the practicality of the h[5B] one (that's actually why I put it first).

I'm not too worried about us building back the wolf meter, I'm more so worried about the actual wolf meter that the combo requires (which is, evidently; quite a bit).

The good thing is that since these are technically loops we may be able to shorten the amount of rep's and use a less wolf meter intensive ender if need be.

Still, 4348 damage from a h[5B] in the corner is quite impressive. As for the whole 236B~236B > w[j.A] link, it really doesn't look all that hard (it certainly isn't hard in Extend). I'm more so worried about the w[2D > 5C x N] mash, and how it will differ on different characters/hitboxes.

And on a side note, some of those Tager exclusive combo's looked extremely fun to perform.

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The wolf sweep loop isn't that hard. I was doing it day 1. I thought of it as a silly peculiarity at the time and didn't investigate how many times you can do it in OD. XD

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Hah. Oh well, at least now we've (you) confirmed that the Wolf Sweep Loop is actually practical. Things are looking up for Valkenhayn.

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inb4 Beginners luck and it's actually really hard. XD

(I only tried it like the once)

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We've got loops.

Mori, you've got to stop giving the Valkies our hand-me-downs. They're actually getting damage out of it.

Things are looking up for Valkenhayn.

post-29614-139515173751_thumb.png

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Still, 4348 damage from a h[5B] in the corner is quite impressive. As for the whole 236B~236B > w[j.A] link, it really doesn't look all that hard (it certainly isn't hard in Extend). I'm more so worried about the w[2D > 5C x N] mash, and how it will differ on different characters/hitboxes.

Remember that 236B~236B wall bounds in EX so there may be a difference in timing in CP. In EX it's easier to do 236B~236B > 6D > w[j.A], but in CP you're required to use 6DD > w[j.A]. I've seen players, including the top 4 Valks, drop the combo many times.

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Yeah, I've seen it as well. I always just assumed that they were going for oki though.

It seems to now have an awkward launch/float property eerily similar to moves such as Hakumen's j.D (except it doesn't launch as high) and it looks as if we'll need wolf mode to combo off of it.

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in CP you're required to use 6DD > w[j.A].

What is the second D for? I'm not entirely familiar with Valk's CP Rasen/Gesch changes.

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He means 6D>w[2C>j.A] (not sure what is the best way to notate brake now.. XD), but in either case, it's the brake. The attack comes out slightly faster than if you hadn't used the brake because you can cancel into brake earlier in the wolf dash startup.

Edit: Actually the command change for brake should probably be added to the OP.

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Oh, so basically canceling Geschwind with the brake lets you get the w[jA] out faster than going straight to w[jA]? Also, I'm sorry if I'm asking a lot of answered questions but why is it exactly that we can't do w5C>CA (would be w5D>CA in CP?) instant overheads anymore or can we still do it?

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We still can. It's a bit harder and I think people just opt to do rising w[j.C] a lot more now caus it doesn't take wolf meter.

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Edit: Actually the command change for brake should probably be added to the OP.

Will do.

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We still can. It's a bit harder and I think people just opt to do rising w[j.C] a lot more now caus it doesn't take wolf meter.

Oh okay, thanks.

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The Valkenhayn loop has officially made my day!

& OMG Valkenhayn still has hope! I'm so emotional, I could cry from the happiness. lol xD

Well, here's to hoping that the Jap players can fully bring out his potential. :D

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I feel kinda bad for Suuya in that 37 minute set against N-Otoko, he only won 1 game if I recall correctly. That Rachel player was seemingly very strong and knew how to disrespect Valkenhayn's pressure very well.

Also, it seems like one of my suspicions has been verified today. j.C being geschwind cancellable in OD actually has a semi-decent use as a meter-less IOH that leads into a full combo. IOH j.C > OD > 3D > Combo.

Kiba, any thoughts on that "Drops" fellow? I saw some extremely questionable rapid cancel's from him, but he seemed to be pretty solid. From what I've seen, I'd compare him to someone like NAOO.

The Valkenhayn dan rankings seem to be all over the place as well, and it saddens me to see that Hima is only currently in 5th.

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Hima might not have much time to play the game and all y'know. RL might have kicked in.

I feel Suuya could've really made his pressure scarier if he used command grabs more, that's why N-Otoko was getting so comfortable with his pressure. He just sits there, and using the command grab can prompt him to jump at times and then Suuya can catch on and tag him with w[5B] for example. Even at times I could guess what Suuya was going to do next. Alternatively he could've even used stuff like w[5C] > 6DD > throw/2B rather than going into w[j.A] most of the time. It can still be mashed out of but it helps to add a bit of variety.

I saw Drops use a few questionable things, but he does know his combos, and it was cool to see the fatal counter combos. I think he's slightly better than NAAO/Nao (Same player but I'll list is as 'Nao' since that's how it is on his player card), but he's not as good as the top 4 Valks. It's nice to finally see Drops, especially since was he within top 10. I was even curious to see how he plays when he was ranked 1st. Uma no Hone has gone back to the 1st ranked Valk but I'll update the dan rankings every Sunday.

Aside from Hima, Zekuso remains my favourite.

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Either that, or others such as Drops, Zekuso, Masashi, etc have been playing much more.

Suuya is also using those weird/unique combo's that he did in his latest combo video. w[j.236B > 2D > > 5D] > 2C, etc sort of stuff. Seems like a waste of wolf meter in some situations.

And yeah, I also noticed that Drops didn't use command grabs much either (and when he did use them, which was rarely, he did it after rapid set-up's that almost never worked). It was still nice to finally see him, though.

I almost never see w[5C] > 6D > 5D > Throw stuff. I find myself guilty of dismissing those set-ups as well even though I am fully aware of them. Just feels too easy to dis-respect especially when against certain players. I'll start listing "NAOO" videos as "Nao", thanks for notifying me.

I don't know about you Kiba, but I am truly infatuated with our new wolf normals. Specifically speaking:

-w[5C > 2D > 5C x N], even though we do not have a 6 frame low that chains into itself 3 times anymore; we can still evidently do this.

-Rising w[j.C] (meter-less wolf over-head), what else needs to be said right? This is simply fantastic.

-w[6D > j.A > j.C], the fact that w[j.A] chains into w[j.C] as a valid double-overhead blockstring is great IMO.

Add on the fact that w[j.C] has an interesting looking animation (twist body, overhead kick with back of itty-bitty wolf feet) and I become quite excited about CP Valkenhayn. Even though he was toned down quite a bit, he still thankfully looks very solid.

Zekuso your second favorite? Interesting, any particular reasons as to why? I personally prefer Masashi.

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Yea them playing more could also be the reason. There's a lot of things to consider. Eh, even though Hima is 5th he still has the best Valkenhayn and it shows you can't always follow rankings.

I'm not sure what to make of the w[j.236B > 2D > > 5D] > 2C stuff. It was definately nice to watch, and going into 6C route is always good. It was either that or the w[j.236B > 6D > j.B > j.A] > 5B > 236A > 2C > tk.214B > 6C which I feel is inferior.

With regards to the normals I like them a lot for the reasons you've outlined too. w[5C] has decent range and helps with the Tager matchup for example because it gives you another ranged option from which you can followup from on hit. w[j.C] also makes a really good throw bait. and both of those new normals make excellent combo starters too!

Sorry I wasn't specific at all. Zekuso is actually my #1 favourite and I find myself going back to his matches constantly. I think it's his particular variation in wolf movement and pressure that gets me. He's definately buffed up since EX and I'm proud of the guy. Masashi used to be my favourite in EX, but I don't find him as interesting to watch as Zekuso now.

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Hima's Valkenhayn is the equivalent of poetry in motion. His play just feels so polished and refined, it's unreal.

I forgot to mention the range on w[5C]! That was one of the first things that I was excited about regarding the move.

The w[j.236B > 2D > 5D] > 2C, etc stuff is okay for Back to Corner combo's, but for anything else it just feels redundant (especially in corner combo's).

Something such as this: j.A > 5C > 6D > j.A > j.C > j.236B > 2D > j.B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5B > IAD > j.A > j.B [2062 DMG, 15 HG] while interesting just seems like a blatant waste of wolf meter for a sub-par IAD ender and a mere 2k of damage.

On the other hand, something like this: 5C > 6D > j.A > 5B > j.C > j.236B > 2D > j.D > h[2C > 6C > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.A > j.B > dj.B > j.C] [3135 DMG, 23 HG] is pretty decent for wolf regen time and damage.

Overall, however; this is by far my favorite Back to Corner combo as of now: 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 6D > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > IAD] > j.D > j.A > j.A > 5B > j.A > j.C > dj.D > h[j.C] [3307 DMG, 24 HG]

Speaking of new wolf normal CH exceptions, we actually do get more damage from a w[5C] CH. w[5C CH > 6D > 5D > 2C, etc].

Ah I see, well, Zekuso is very good. So he's definitely someone worth watching consistently.

Oh, and one more thing. I've been wondering as to why I've only really seen Hima doing the w[3D > j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C) ender in a good portion of his combo's? It seems to be working quite well for him and I don't understand what reasoning others have behind not using it as well?

I've seen Nao do it on a few rares occasions, I saw Drops do it once, and I've seen a few other random's do it rarely as well. Other then that, it's mainly Hima's thing right now. And considering the fact that he is a well known/respected Valkenhayn player that others would seemingly attempt to assimilate, it just doesn't make much sense.

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One thing Suuya did very well is blocking N-O's coin flip mixups, usually people get blown up faster. ku ku ku

Also his w[j.236B 2/3D > j.D] > 2C/3C combos are fantastic.

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Well Hima does stream quite often, but it's generally random games like luigi's mansion or Dragon quest X. I guess when he gets console CP he will stream some matches (?)

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Oh, and one more thing. I've been wondering as to why I've only really seen Hima doing the w[3D > j.C] > dj.D > j.C > (j.C) ender in a good portion of his combo's? It seems to be working quite well for him and I don't understand what reasoning others have behind not using it as well?

I've seen Nao do it on a few rares occasions, I saw Drops do it once, and I've seen a few other random's do it rarely as well. Other then that, it's mainly Hima's thing right now. And considering the fact that he is a well known/respected Valkenhayn player that others would seemingly attempt to assimilate, it just doesn't make much sense.

There's all sorts of reasonings for this so it's hard to judge, but maybe they don't like it and prefer what they do I suppose.

One thing Suuya did very well is blocking N-O's coin flip mixups, usually people get blown up faster. ku ku ku

This is true, and using barrier with it was a good idea. I just wish he didn't rely on it at times where he didn't need to and then run out, or be near danger state. Can't really afford that with Valk.

Well Hima does stream quite often, but it's generally random games like luigi's mansion or Dragon quest X. I guess when he gets console CP he will stream some matches (?)

Hopefully he does, and I got the impression he was a huge Dragon Quest fan lol.

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