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Magaki

[CSE-CP] *Debate* Valkenhayn's Okizeme

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Valkenhayn's oki is extremely basic and rely on meaty attacks. Therefore, the different between a good oki and a bad oki is simple: The amount of frames you have to do whatever you want afterwards.

Considering you picked up CP, you will understand with time how important the wolf regen nerf is and why we pretty much all go for the 6C>3C ender as it gives you the best oki and gives back a lot of wolf gauge.

And you don't have to bother with emergency techs, delay techs or rolls with w5C oki as it will always lead you to the same result whatever the opponent do.

Obviously, the oki consist of getting in w5C range to play safe and go low for w5C or go for an overhead with wjA.

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Valkenhayn's oki is extremely basic and rely on meaty attacks. Therefore, the different between a good oki and a bad oki is simple: The amount of frames you have to do whatever you want afterwards.

Considering you picked up CP, you will understand with time how important the wolf regen nerf is and why we pretty much all go for the 6C>3C ender as it gives you the best oki and gives back a lot of wolf gauge.

And you don't have to bother with emergency techs, delay techs or rolls with w5C oki as it will always lead you to the same result whatever the opponent do.

Obviously, the oki consist of getting in w5C range to play safe and go low for w5C or go for an overhead with wjA.

So when 5C catches rolls and delay techs, do I already have to be doing 3D>4C or 6D>j.A to combo? If so, I dont see myself using this a lot since I can't w.C loop. Couldn't this be replicated with h 3C so I can do 3C>236AD which auto confirms any rolls or delay techs and would allow me to catch backdashes with wjA.

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You didn't get how the w5C oki works. I guess it's my fault though and it means that I have to write it in a clearer.

Anyway, I'll try to explain a bit better here:



  • After you do the 6C>3C ender or j8BBC ender, get in w5C range. You have more than enough time with both enders even if the opponent emergency tech.

  • Once you're in position, just wait for the opponent to tech. Goal of the training section is to make you able to perfectly meaty if the opponent delay techs or emergency techs based on your timing by observing the opponent. If the opponent try to roll away, they will end up just before you allowing you to punish.

  • When you notice that the opponent emergency tech or delay tech, you have more than enough time to get the timing to do w5C in order to meaty perfectly.

Additionnal notes:

-This is NOT something like "press 6B right after you combo to meaty". You have to wait for the right timing while you observe how the opponent is teching.

-The w5C oki consists of getting into w5C range in order to be able to use w5C to beat reversals. Once the opponent understood that using reversals against that oki is useless, you can do 6D>wjA for a mixup instead of w5C.

-If you hit the opponent with w5C, you can do 6D>wjA to combo right away.

Combo I use is w5C>6D>wjA>w5C>w236A>5D>2C>6B>2C>236A>2C>tk214B>6C>3C which does something like 3k200 and gives back a lot of wolf gauge.

-I would like some additionnal informations. While most people told me that the guide is really clear and easy to understand, you're the second person who seems to have troubles understanding it.

Please reply honestly, did you read the whole w5C oki guide or just a part of it ? And did you read also the whole okizeme thread ? While it is true that the most important informations are already in the strategy guide, it still got useful additionnal informations.

-If anyone else have troubles with it, please do not hesitate voicing your opinion as it will allow me to pinpoint what is unclear and improve the guide.

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Magaki can i suggest using screen shots to maybe help. I use screens in my evernote of all my own Valk notes plus all the dustloop oki thread and forum stuff. Anyway just a suggestion. I'll help if need be.

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That's also something that I plan to do when I'll have more time and figure out a better way to organize it. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

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I have been messing with w5C oki, and you can use it with falling j.C oki. Well sorta. If you choose to do w5C you don't do falling j.C. Basically you replace the falling j.C with falling j.D which gives you enough time to get in range for the w5C though its strict. It looks like this ...wj.C>8dj.D>dj.C>(j.D) hold 4(Not necessary I just do it because it helps me with the repositioning upon landing). It's really interesting when used with this setup. w5C is used to condition the opponent not to DP. Falling j.C is used to condition the opponent not to delay tech if they still decide to delay tech you still have time to transform and reposition for w5C oki. Once they've been conditioned not to delay tech and are afraid to DP. You can start mixing the w5C with wj.C>8dj.D>j.C>(j.D>6D>wj.B>wj.C/w5C)[high/low in case wj.B is blocked. Can do wj.B> command throw as well. 6D needs to be delayed a little so wj.B>w5C combos],(j.D>6D>D>land throw/2A>purple throw)[Purple throw for people who start to OS throw once they've seen it],etc. Opponent needs to be in corner for this.

Also after a tk214B>6C ender human 4D>66D> delay j.B is a safejump. 6C needs to be done immediately after tk214B. j.B is delayed because if done too fast it will whiff through emergency tech. You can use the whiff to trick them and land 2B. It also catches forward roll when done properly, but causes side switch. You can do j.B>2C into a side switch combo to corner them again.

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Yea can you reposition to max w5c range after that, or does it put you in max w5c range? I don't recall doing 8jc ender in corner rarely even if at all.

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Yea im going to start using that ender more, but doing it mid-screen only puts you in meaty h5c range. This isn't a bad option when you really look at it. Now h5c is greschwind cancelable, so it makes sense to do this ender mid-screen at times. Seems safe and reliable to approach from a reactable distance to most counters.

On hit and with meter you can buffer h5c into jager>rc etc (Rosen on CH), and if blocked 5d, 1/2d, or 4d. From there you can use Konig to preemp strikes. Can prolly do this in general off any mid-screen jc ender. I think this will help close the gap against characters that make it hard to corner them like Carl.

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I have been messing with w5C oki, and you can use it with falling j.C oki. Well sorta. If you choose to do w5C you don't do falling j.C. Basically you replace the falling j.C with falling j.D which gives you enough time to get in range for the w5C though its strict. It looks like this ...wj.C>8dj.D>dj.C>(j.D) hold 4(Not necessary I just do it because it helps me with the repositioning upon landing). It's really interesting when used with this setup. w5C is used to condition the opponent not to DP. Falling j.C is used to condition the opponent not to delay tech if they still decide to delay tech you still have time to transform and reposition for w5C oki. Once they've been conditioned not to delay tech and are afraid to DP. You can start mixing the w5C with wj.C>8dj.D>j.C>(j.D>6D>wj.B>wj.C/w5C)[high/low in case wj.B is blocked. Can do wj.B> command throw as well. 6D needs to be delayed a little so wj.B>w5C combos],(j.D>6D>D>land throw/2A>purple throw)[Purple throw for people who start to OS throw once they've seen it],etc. Opponent needs to be in corner for this.

Also after a tk214B>6C ender human 4D>66D> delay j.B is a safejump. 6C needs to be done immediately after tk214B. j.B is delayed because if done too fast it will whiff through emergency tech. You can use the whiff to trick them and land 2B. It also catches forward roll when done properly, but causes side switch. You can do j.B>2C into a side switch combo to corner them again.

 

Ah cool this gives me a reason to play about with the wj.C > dj.D > j.C enders more. Thanks for that! I'm gonna include this in the guide.

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