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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Changes and Discussion

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Good stuff, guys.

 

So, has anyone conclusively decided what they will be doing off of w[j.A], if anything?

 

Right now I'm using the cannons despite the bad oki, damage, corner carry, wolf meter usage, etc just to see how things go for the first week. 

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Did some mistakes while writing the previous post.
6D>wjA>wjC>w5C is the frame trap. Make sure wjA>wjC hits though or it will be an airtight blockstring instead.

6D>wjA>wjC>4D is the new OS.

As for brjA in itself, I think it will mostly be used to end a match (jC IOH with OD or RC is better though) unless we find some way to make it give back the wolf gauge used. In fact, the biggest challenge with Valk now is to find a route that would give us the maximum amount of wolf regen (And will probably end with 6C>3C ender for obvious reasons.).

For wjA air hit, the wolf regen used to get any damage worth mentioning with it is way too high to considering doing a proper combo with it. I had better result doing wjA>wjB and mixup the opponent afterwards. Midscreen, it allows you to do some really cool and creative crossups.

For wjA ground hit, nothing worth mentioning at all about it really. wjB is a much better choice. There are only 2 things that would make you choose to go for wjA instead of wjB:

-w5B/w5C>6D>wjA got a 4 frames gap on block.
w5B/w5C>6D>wjB got a 7 frames gap.
Therefore, using wjA might be useful against people mashing 5A against wolf mixups. But then again, wolf loops will be more rewarding in that situation and w5C>3D4C is a much better frame trap.

-6D>wjA allow to do wjC afterwards. It's useful in order to do the resets I talked about in the previous post because wjB won't gatling into wjC in the air and will do w5C instead. You're free however to do 6D>wjB>land>wjC if you want a second overhead though.

So yeah, only reason I would still use wjA now is either for resets or air-to-air.

If you got the time, I would advice you to watch Souji's last video.
Souji decided to simply go with wolf canons combos off wjA hits but look really carefully at the impact it had afterwards on his gameplay.

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I'm sticking with wj.A > 5D > 5B > 3C (> 236A) or wj.A > (5B) > 5C to save meter and maintain better oki/pressure.

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Sucks that the first route only combos on crouchers, Kiba. That's a pretty decent way of going about things though, regular wolf > human transitions. 

 

But yeah, Magaki. I saw Souji's play earlier and it definitely effects him. It's been effecting me too.

 

I just hate not combo'ing into things when I get a proper hitconfirm. Eh, I'm still undecided when it comes to this. I'm leaning towards only using brj.A cannon routes in the corner, though. 

 

On a side note, they STILL haven't fixed his english voice wolf sounds.

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Sucks that the first route only combos on crouchers, Kiba. That's a pretty decent way of going about things though, regular wolf > human transitions.

Actually it can work on standing opponents, if you use brjA.

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I keep hearing about how bad he is, yet people keep telling me how broken Valk still is. To be honest I won't be on 1.1 (thank you Microsoft) for a while. Valk and Izayoi are the only chatacters I ever play seriously, so to me he'll always be GDLK

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He's still really strong. Like we talked about last time, he's high tier at worst, top tier at best.

Good news btw guys:
I managed to get in contact with Takenoko who is quite good with english. Uma no Hone and Takenoko plan to keep playing Valk. They however decided that they should focus on subs first. Zekuso dropped Valkenhayn though for Azrael.

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I'm glad that Takenoko came around. He probably realized that with Kagura, the struggle is too real. I think with him, Uma, Suya, and Yuitaba among others, we have a pretty solid lineup of players to watch still.

Still though, RIP Hima Valk 2013-2014: Taken from us by the scrubby Terumi army.

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Honestly it's not even a big cooldown nerf. When they first announced the change I was a bit worried but then when they gave us the frame data & I actually got to play the game I knew it wasn't enough to keep him from being good.

 

At any rate, I wouldn't say that he plays a lot more human mode in neutral now but he definitely has to more than before. Since he doesn't gain wolf meter whilst in the air you're probably going to be doing a lot of walking backwards in human mode. 

 

Ideally you want your opponent to get off of you while your regenerating meter but they're not always going to give you breathing room and as a result the momentum will often times shift in your opponents favor. 

 

Anti-air 236A (yeah, I just typed this), 5C, j.C, IAD'ing away, etc are all viable options when stalling for time. I wouldn't rely on 5C too much, however. 

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Well, I always liked 5C and used it a lot in my neutral game so that's somewhat good news for me XD

 

I assume you mean offensive falling j.C as pressure btw, not some sort of rising defensive j.C?

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Well, the recovery on whiff leaves much to be desired so I wouldn't go around abusing it too much. But yes, you can use it as a poking tool every so often.

 

I assume you mean offensive falling j.C

 

Yes.

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Anti-air 236A (yeah, I just typed this) 

 

I knew you'd come around.  ;)

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I've been trying to scrounge up all the Valk footage I can to figure out certain things I can do and different styles of playing him in this patch. Anti-air 236A though....

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Is there somewhere to find option selects?  It's one part of my game that I need to improve....

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You will have to read the whole CP and CP1.1 thread sadly because no one really tried to list them all. A video on OSes was made a while ago though.
Anyway, most OSes we had were based on wolf backdash but they are now obsolete because of the wolf backdash nerf.

Most important OSes left are probably w5B/w5C>6D>1B as a blockstring. If the opponent tries to use a reversal, you will block it thanks to 1B as long as you delay it slightly. Beat 8f reversals and slower ones. So basically, it only loses to Hazama's Jayoku.

Other one is kinda hard. Requires doing hjABC as an air ender after a 5B>5C. Once you land, press 3C>1D/2D>236A really fast. If the opponent didn't emergency tech, 3C>236A will come out for slightly more corner carry. If 3C whifs, 1D/2D will come out instead and you will have to react and go for wolf sweep loop right away (so 1DC or 2D1C). If you did it right, it should meaty before they can jump out.
You have however to delay slightly the 5B>5C part to have the opponent high enough in order to do hjABC otherwise the w5C won't meaty.
Kinda hard to do consistently and even I who loves OSes barely uses it.

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On Kokonoe's wakeup, you can OS her teleport with w.jC > w.5B/w.5C

If she does not teleport, you get the overhead, if she does, she gets punished by the 5B/5C during recovery frames. Not a universal OS, but a good one against the crazy cat lady.

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Guess I have some homework to do. Thanks a bunch guys. And any tech against Kok-annoy is good with me

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How severe was the w.jA nerf? I've seen waaay less Valken since 1.1 dropped so I assumed it was because of that and cooldown

w.jA retains its utility from the previous version, but the proration nerf means you can get little to no damage or corner carry off of it. What you can do off of a w.jA is follow it up with w.B into double jump. This puts the enemy below you allowing out to set up a 6 way mixup with w.jB/h.jB as your overheads, w.5C/h.2B as your lows, and wolf command grab. You can do any of these as a crossup or a fake crossup. This alone means w.jA is a perfectly viable air to air move. Wolf brake j.A is still possible, but it only leads to around 2K and no corner carry meaning you can use it to end a round, but not much else.

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w.jA retains its utility from the previous version, but the proration nerf means you can get little to no damage or corner carry off of it. What you can do off of a w.jA is follow it up with w.B into double jump. This puts the enemy below you allowing out to set up a 6 way mixup with w.jB/h.jB as your overheads, w.5C/h.2B as your lows, and wolf command grab. You can do any of these as a crossup or a fake crossup. This alone means w.jA is a perfectly viable air to air move. Wolf brake j.A is still possible, but it only leads to around 2K and no corner carry meaning you can use it to end a round, but not much else.

Funny thing is, people still cry about it.

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