GGACR/I-No/Optimizing Punishes

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Optimizing Punishes

Below in the combo section is a table listing I-no's best openers (starters) for combos and their respective protation rate (or lack thereof). It is important that when punishing something with I-no that you stay aware and use a combo starter with absolutely no proration if at all possible. Doing this will guarantee that the resulting combo hurts as much as possible, and any meter usage within that combo is justified. Some examples of excellent combo starters are her: 5K, 5S, 2S, j.S, j.H and Ultimate Fortissimo Overdrive. Don't punish yourself by punishing your opponent with a heavy prorated starter!


Burst Bait/Punish:

Do to I-No's lack of a traditional ground dash, punishing whiffed/blocked Bursts can be a bit tricky at first. Firstly, recognize where opponents are most likely to Burst in the first place. Here is list of the most frequent spots in a combo that an opponent might choose to (panic)Burst:

Common Burst Locations vs. I-no
  • j.K > 2K -> Burst
  • 2K > c.S -> Burst
  • 2K > 2S -> Burst
  • 2K > 6P -> Burst
  • 5K > HCL -> Burst
  • Air Throw > c.S -> Burst
  • Ground Throw > 6FRC6 > dash j.S -> Burst
  • j.P > FB Dive -> Burst
  • j.D -> Burst
  • S STBT (CH) -> Burst
  • 6H (CH) -> Burst

Use these tendencies to your advantage and plan ahead on how you might bait/punish their attempted Burst. Since I-No is lacking the aforementioned ground based dash, it is very important to try to make the Burst whiff completely, or at least be sure to Instant Block the Burst if making it whiff is not an option. Of course the best possible outcome would be to react to the Burst > Slashback it and punish accordingly. Not only does this give you the time to punish with the best possible starters, but it looks amazingly flashy and is demoralizing to your opponent in the worst way!

Speaking of demoralizing your opponent, you may notice that there is no previous mention of Air Throwing the opponents Burst...This is because although having your Burst (Soul) taken in Guilty Gear is one of the most demoralizing, humiliating and dehumanizing things that can possibly happen to you outside of a Perfect (>.<), unless you play a character such as I-No who has the ability to combo off of their Air Throw, you are essentially dropping huge amounts of combo damage in favor of a 60 damage throw. Even in I-No's case, an Air Throw in the corner gives comboability, but at the cost of 50% forced proration on the rest of the combo. Unless its going to get you the kill, or you have a read on a Gold Burst (which can only be punished by throw) try to avoid tossing someone's Burst across the screen and hit them with that 220dmg combo instead. Your win rate will thank you.

Here are some of the most common and successful Burst baits/punishes:

Burst Punishes
  • j.K > 2K > backdash -> -Burst- whiffs > dash j.S > follow up
  • 2K > c.S -> -Burst- > IB Burst > 5K > follow up
  • 2K > c.S > JC -> -Burst- > SB/IB Burst > P Dive/j.S > follow up
  • 2K > 2S > 2H (whiffs) -> -Burst- > SB Burst > 5H > follow up
  • 2K > 6P -> -Burst- > S or H STBT (under Burst) > (5P) c.S > follow up
[Use S STBT midscreen and block Burst on opposite side; use H STBT in corner to make Burst whiff completely]
  • 5K > HCL -> -Burst- > FRC > IB Burst > 5K > follow up
  • 5K > HCL -> -Burst- > FRC > SB Burst > 5H > follow up
  • Air Throw (corner) > c.S > JC -> -Burst- > SB/IB Burst > follow up with best punish
  • Ground Throw > 6FRC6 > dash j.S > double jump -> -Burst- > SB/IB Burst > P Dive/j.S > follow up
  • j.P > FB Dive -> -Burst- > FB Cancel > Burst whiffs > land > follow up with best punish
  • j.D > JC -> -Burst- > IB/SB Burst > P Dive/j.S > follow up
  • S STBT (CH) -> -Burst- > stand and wait > Burst whiffs > follow up with best punish
  • 6H (CH) > dash forward -> -Burst- > IB/SB Burst or stop short to make it whiff > 5K/5H > follow up
[can also double jump into the burst for positioning, IB/SB Burst > P Dive/j.S > follow up]

-Mynus

Punishing on block

Some moves are minus on block, but skilled players space them in a way that they are difficult to punish. You'll need to instant block to reduce the opponent's pushback and create a bigger punish window. Examples:

SO - Bandit Revolver: It's -3 on block when used up close. If the Sol player is bad, block this up close and get a free grab as an easy mode punish. If you IB you'll have 2 extra frames to punish, but Sol is in crouching state during recovery so he'll duck under 5P. You're forced to use 2P or 2K since they're frame 5, but it's a frame perfect punish and they both prorate. Use 2P if possible since it prorates 80%, vs 2K prorating 75%.
Good Sol players will use it at a distance to try to catch you jumping out, since you have to air FD it (but you'll forget to since the move is airborne, and you don't normally have to air FD another airborne move). If you stay grounded and block, not only will you not have enough frames to punish, but Sol will be at a range that you can't reach him with your fast moves, and if you try to take your turn the Sol player may just beat your button with 5K's 3frame startup, or will just VV to beat anything else you do. If you IB the Bandit Revolver Sol might be close enough for a frame perfect 2K, but a 2P wont reach.


Punishing on whiff

Sometimes your opponent royally screws up. They made a bad read or dropped an input, and now they're doing something totally unsafe. Most of the time, you will have to create situations where your opponent whiffs so you can get the whiff punish. The thing is, Guilty Gear doesn't have a whole lot of lingering hurtboxes on whiff. Some characters have them, but between the general lack of them to take advantage of and the different neutral structure caused by having so many movement options (especially in the air), whiff punishing is actually somewhat difficult. There are enough hurtboxes that extend prior to the startup of a move that the game encourages checking those options by pressing a button first, and that creates situations where you can predict that they will push a button to control space, position yourself where they whiff, and then punish the whiff. You might also try to challenge the move outright to fish for a counter hit, but the general setup still applies.

From Neutral

As far as whiff punishing on the ground with I-No, there will probably be a lot of situations where the best you can do is try to fish for a knockdown, or you would have to spend a ton of meter to convert, or maybe you can't even get knockdown and just have to be happy with 2S's damage.

Here's another Sol example. Let's say he's at round start distance. This is a good range for him to use 5H to fish for a counterhit because it'll beat a lot of I-No's options. One of I-No's counterplays on the ground is 5K. Sol can beat that with 2H. The thing is, Sol's 2H is going to whiff against a lot of I-No's options. And so now I-No can 5H (to blow up the 2H with a counterhit), or if you want to be patient you can wait for the whiff. Sol's 2H has 39f of total animation, so while you can react to it, your punish is somewhat limited since you can't swing hard with a slow move. You would have to commit and do it early, such as in the case of the 5H (which will lose to *his* 5H). And the reward even if you could reliably whiff punish with 5H for a non-CH isn't as good as if you commit and score the CH. So the specific situation where you're going to whiff punish is the one where you were patient and Sol went for the massive CH against your 5K that you didn't do. And now things are tricky because Sol is crouching, so you can't just HCL to score knockdown. Odds are the best you might get in this particular case is 2S for some damage.

However, there's another context where I-No shines in whiff punishing, that would apply here (but it's a riskier play). If you neutral jumped, or just jumped in general, and Sol whiffed a button on the ground, or maybe gunflame, you can dive punish. It's risky to jump against Sol at that range, especially if it's actually at round start and you have no meter to FD with. However, I-No can punish characters with dive from various ranges. Sdive will even let her pick up for a combo, whereas Kdive is good for trying to hit first since it has less recovery if blocked and knocks down anyway on regular hit (but gives unprorated damage on CH). And that's the other layer to this - when you jump you can be setting up movement, setting up a TK Kdive to fish for a counterhit, doing max range j.H to control space, or all sorts of things that could bait an action that will let you whiff punish with Sdive.

So key takeaways are:

  1. Though this game isn't built with the same degree of baiting ground normals to just barely whiff and then punishing them as other games such as Street Fighter, it still exists and can give you an edge.
  2. The moves you're most likely to be able to punish in a neutral situation have a lot of total animation frames, like H button moves and some special moves, because you need time to recognize their startup.
  3. One of I-No's strengths is that she can whiff punish from long range with HCL to score a knockdown.
    • Caveat: There are also lots of situations where the best you can do from the ground is a single 2S hit, because 2D wont reach and neither will HCL (they're crouching).
  4. I-No can jump around and generally out-fight (stay outside of the opponent's range) to elicit actions that she can whiff punish via Sdive, which typically convert.
    • It's tricky for the opponent to recognize when you're looking for opportunities to whiff punish and when you're taking initiative. Take advantage of that to create other positive situations.

From opponent's pressure

This is a tricky concept and will require lots of experience and practice to get good at. You're going to utilize IB along with FD to get your opponent to whiff.

  • Weaker opponents will just throw out their block strings or pressure options and wait to see if they can tag you.
  • Stronger opponents will adapt their pressure to your use of IB and FD.
  • Pushback on block increases with each move blocked as long as there isn't a gap in blockstun.
    • This still occurs when IB and FD are used, even though IB reduces the pushback and FD increases it.

Let's say your opponent is Ky and he rushes in really deep and does a string like 2P > 2P > 5K > c.S > 5H > Stun Edge. If you hold FD from the start, you telegraph that you're committed to blocking, and/or that you just want to push your opponent out. A stronger opponent will recognize this and turn the 2P > 2P string into a tick-throw setup. You could FD later in the string, such as the c.S (which will hit from pretty far away, because Ky's c.S has a lot of range) and will cause Ky's 5H to whiff. This is also the case even if you used IB against the previous hits and reduced their pushback. So you get the move with 27 total animation frames to whiff,

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