GGST/Ky Kiske/Counterstrategy

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Fighting Ky

Ky’s goal is to enforce his strike/throw pressure utilizing the Shock State, which is applied by his projectiles and Dire EclatGGST Ky Kiske 214S.pngGuardAllStartup14Recovery25Advantage-8 [-6] special move on contact. Once he has this applied to an opponent, he can do a lot more frame traps that he can’t normally do. His damage output is higher than what most people think it is, it’s just a lot more situational rather than straight forward. He is a well-rounded character, which means that there is no overarching weak point to exploit. Counterplay against Ky requires you to learn the ins and outs of each of his moves rather than overwhelming him with a particular strategy.

He has a lot of good tools to keep you honest. He has an answer for just about any situation. He has good range with his projectiles and decent reach on his slash. He has weak pressure because it can be a bit of a struggle for him to keep you on the defensive as many of his moves don’t give him frame advantage. So, playing a strong neutral game where you know when you can approach and how to effectively whiff punish with your normals helps a lot. Most of this will come from reading players’ tendencies when playing Ky. If you’re a rushdown character, you can really take advantage of dashing and blocking to counter some of his midrange game.

Unique Attributes/Mechanics


  • Shock State

Ky's projectiles and Dire Eclat special move temporarily put the opponent into the Shock State on contact. Shock State lasts for varying amounts of time based on the move, and can either be removed by Ky's specials or the opponent if Ky is hit. Hitting an opponent in Shock State with most of Ky's specials removes the Shock State (or reapplies it) in exchange for bonus effects varying from more damage, more blockstun, and better hit effects, allowing for more damaging combos or stronger okizeme.

Round Start


Ky has very strong round start options. Rounds start from mid range, which happens to be Ky's best range. As a result, Ky has better round start options than much of the cast. His lengthy 2SGGST Ky Kiske 2S.pngGuardLowStartup11Recovery20Advantage-8 hits low with a fast startup of 11 frames, giving Ky a chance to poke the opponent from the round-start position. Most of the time 2S recovers and remains safe on whiff if you jump over it. Usage of 2S can result in mind games in Ky's favor. If you block, Ky can inflict Shock State with 2S > Stun EdgeGGST Ky Kiske 236S.pngGuardAllStartup13RecoveryTotal 46Advantage-14. This is Ky’s projectile special move that will inflict the Shock State on contact. If you jump to evade 2S and try a jump-in attack, Ky can safely block it, or counter read by performing round-start j.KGGST Ky Kiske jK.pngGuardHighStartup7Recovery8Advantage-1 (IAD) or j.SGGST Ky Kiske jS.pngGuardHighStartup7Recovery21Advantage0 (IAD) air-to-air. If you try to escape 2S by backdashing, Ky can just use Stun Edge to directly apply Shock State to you. 2S may have a fast, 11 frame start up, but it loses to faster far-reaching K normals, such as Nagoriyuki or Giovanna’s 5K, or low crushing attacks such as Sol’s 6H or Nagoriyuki’s 6K.

Another notable round start option for Ky is 2DGGST Ky Kiske 2D.pngGuardLowStartup10Recovery18Advantage-10, which grants massive reward on counterhit. Like 2S, it has 10 frames of startup, but it has 18 frames of recovery on whiff, making it very punishable. It also loses to fast disjoints, like Ramlethal and I-No’s f.S. There’s also his 10 frame f.SGGST Ky Kiske fS.pngGuardAllStartup10Recovery16Advantage-5, which can beat some low crushing moves that Ky has trouble with. He moves his hurtbox back slightly when he does this normal, causing certain normals to whiff. However, like most far slashes, this is easily squashed by 6P. In addition, fast disjointed attacks like Ramlethal’s f.S or Baiken’s 2S, as well as attacks that low profile such as Sol’s 2D or May’s 3K will also work here. Finally there’s 6PGGST Ky Kiske 6P.pngGuardAllStartup9Recovery17Advantage-8, which cleanly beats many characters’ go-to round start pokes, but loses to long reaching lows such as Sol’s 2D or Nagoriyuki and Testament’s 2S.

Neutral


Contesting Ky from Mid-Range

Ky is versatile enough to function well at most ranges, but he is especially good at mid ranged poking, especially against characters with a shorter reach. f.SGGST Ky Kiske fS.pngGuardAllStartup10Recovery16Advantage-5 is Ky's strongest poke. It reaches really far with dash momentum, has a lot of active frames, has a fairly notable disjoint and some of the shortest recovery on a slash normal in the game. It's likely to score a counter hit or interrupt an approach when used in footsies range, and is in turn also much harder to whiff punish. Characters with disjoints can really take advantage of it however, and exploit Ky’s strongest poke. Otherwise, you’ll have to pre-emptively use your 6P to beat it. Ky's 2S has longer recovery, shorter active frames and an extended hurtbox compared to f.S, but complements it well by hitting low and having faster startup to contest in midscreen scramble situations.

Both of these pokes can chain into 5HGGST Ky Kiske 5H.pngGuardAllStartup12Recovery21Advantage-8 > Dire Eclat for a frametrap from long range. Dire Eclat is a common blockstring ender for Ky that applies the Shock State on hit or block. It's -8 on block, but the pushback makes it difficult to punish for most characters. It usually comes at the end of blockstrings, so you can try to predict it and go for an Instant Block. If you Instant Block it, he’s wide open because of the massive endlag. Keep in mind that the range of Dire Eclat is somewhat lacking. You could use Faultless Defense on the hits before Dire Eclat to make it whiff, giving you a chance to punish. There are also some characters that can punish it on block without using Instant Block or Faultless Defense like Ramlethal.

Because he can special cancel into Dire Eclat from nearly any normal, it can be very dangerous to mash out of Ky's block pressure. The resulting combo on counter hit can take out well over 50% of your life, even without meter. Sol can consistently punish this with 6H. Ramlethal can consistently punish it on block with f.S, but not the Shock State version. Axl can punish it with 2P. A lot of Ky’s block strings end with either his slashes or 2D into Dire Eclat. Either way, there will be a gap that you can exploit. You can input a reversal/reversal Overdrive to take your turn back. Baiken can parry. Explore your options.

f.S and 2S can also chain directly into Dire Eclat or Stun DipperGGST Ky Kiske 236K 1.pngGuardLow, AllStartup7Recovery30Advantage-19 [-14] for basic conversions from long range. Stun Dipper is an unreactable (5 frame start up) advancing low that can low-profile under many attacks. Lots of Ky players utilize this move to steal their turn back when they are at minus frames or to interrupt defensive options such as jumping back. Should a Stun Dipper connect, Ky is rewarded with a soft knockdown. It may make it seem like Ky can't hit you with oki, but he actually has enough time to meaty with normals like 5KGGST Ky Kiske 5K.pngGuardLowStartup7Recovery6Advantage-2, so be careful upon waking up. This move becomes a lot more volatile when Ky has Tension. He can Red Roman Cancel if this connects for a very strong corner carry combo on hit, and it lets Ky start his pressure immediately on block. This makes Ky a spontaneous and unpredictable threat to watch out for in neutral. You’ll have to be on the defensive when Ky has Tension, because chances are, he’ll be fishing for a hit with this move.

If Ky uses Stun Dipper often, play a bit more patient. Study their patterns and predict the move. The risk-reward ratio of Stun Dipper is unfavorable for Ky, as it is -15 on block, (or -10 with Shock State). Therefore, a simple block punish goes a long way for dealing with it. Doing so will force the Ky player to either burn 50% Tension on an RC to make it safe or to use the move less often. If you’re trying to counter Stun Dipper by playing in the air above it, Ky can Purple Roman Cancel Stun Dipper and then RPS with you in the air, either by doing an aerial attack or an air throw. Be prepared for this situation.

Aside from f.S and 2S, Ky can also poke with his 6P, which is one of the best 6Ps in the game. It has a great-horizontally reaching hurtbox with top-notch startup and great active frames and recovery. While the reward on a ground hit may not be the greatest, it can be an excellent tool for him to contest long reaching pokes against characters who do outrange him. In addition, like all 6Ps, it's also a great anti air that is very rewarding and easy to use. Keep the round start counterplay in mind when trying to deal with it.

6HGGST Ky Kiske 6H.pngGuardAllStartup15Recovery20Advantage-7 is another great tool to compliment Ky's neutral game. It is his slowest poke of use at 15 frames, but it reaches really far and has a very big disjoint. Ky also takes a step forward with this normal, allowing him to extend his reach from a safe distance. This move's hitbox lets it beat out a lot of pokes that would collide it with, it’s especially effective at hitting crouching pokes and even low profiles. It does have 20 frames of recovery, which leaves him wide open if he whiffs. While 6H doesn't lead to many options on block or on a normal hit midscreen, it is in fact one of Ky's most rewarding pokes on counterhit, as it can easily lead into Foudre ArcGGST Ky Kiske 214K.pngGuardAllStartup24Recovery6Advantage-2~+6 [+5~+12] for corner carry and oki or a high damage punish closer to the corner. Foudre Arc is a slow, flying kick with a high arc that is a superb combo tool to provide high corner carry and optimal knockdown, a way to hard-call jumps in offense/neutral as a high risk - high reward option, a solid option to reset pressure primarily with Shock State, and is a rewarding, advantageous and potentially reversal safe meaty option after situations where Ky is farther away.

Foudre Arc has a long startup animation. If he’s using this in neutral without chaining into it from a normal, it doesn't hit grounded opponents until frame 27 at earliest, which gives you an opportunity to intercept the move with a 6P, an invincible reversal, or another fast normal. Try to interrupt it if Ky is using it in a predictable manner. If you cant read your opponent's patterns you might be forced to block Foudre Arc. In this situation, be sure to stand block it as doing so reduces Ky's frame advantage. On standing block, it's -1, but on crouching block it's always plus. Ky's fastest normals are his 2PGGST Ky Kiske 2P.pngGuardAllStartup5Recovery8Advantage-2 and 5PGGST Ky Kiske 5P.pngGuardAllStartup5Recovery7Advantage-1 at 5f. You can jump out if he does anything except 5P, which you can block but will be forced back to the ground with. At midscreen, most characters (aside from big bodied ones) can crouch underneath it at certain spacings.

Foudre Arc Countermeasure Recipe
Character Name Recipe Number Difficulty Notes
PC
Universal Foudre Arc No Shock State Counterattack 46056 Easy Ky will do a blockstring into 214K and try to continue his pressure with a 2P. You will have to stand block, then counterattack with any 5f normal such as a 2P

Keep in mind that if you block Foudre Arc while in Shock State (or Ky is in Dragon Install), he will always be at advantage, even if stand blocked. Therefore, Ky players might be more tempted to go for Foudre Arc during the three seconds you're in Shock State (or when he is in Dragon Install). Try to intercept the attack rather than preemptively snuff it out. You can try to be preemptive, but if you’re wrong, you can get frametrapped and lose a lot of life.

Finally, 2D is Ky's second low poke of choice. Its range isn't the best compared to his other pokes, however it is fairly fast, has a lot of active frames, is a low, and is also highly rewarding on counterhit, like 6H. In addition, it also gives him a hard knockdown on hit so the reward is more solid on normal hit compared to 6H. Again, keep the round start 2D counter play in mind.

Contesting Ky from Long Range/Dealing with his Zoning

While Ky does have a few options at far range, like Sol, this is probably where he is at his weakest. Ky has better long range options than Sol, but not by much. Any character who's designed to play at that range generally has better tools all around and can contest him very effectively, so characters like Axl, Zato and Happy Chaos have an advantage here. In addition, his zoning tools aren't very competent at keeping opponents out.

At long range, Ky will mainly rely on Stun Edge as well as the S versionGGST Ky Kiske j236X.pngGuardAllStartup21RecoveryUntil Landing+10Advantage- and H versionGGST Ky Kiske j236X.pngGuardAllStartup21RecoveryUntil Landing+10Advantage- of Aerial Stun Edge. Using short forward dashes into block is a common strategy to close the gap against projectile users. However, remember that Stun Edge will inflict Shock State on the defender even on block. Mix in air dash forward to avoid blocking the move entirely. Don't air dash into aerial attacks recklessly, as he can intercept predictable approaches with 6P or other anti-airs. Air dash into block is essential to make Ky respect your aerial approach.

There can only ever be one Stun Edge on screen, so causing it to whiff means that Ky is unable to shoot out another one. If Ky is mindlessly spamming this in neutral, you can punish him this way, as he might accidentally do a f.S instead, leaving him vulnerable to a whiff punish. Aerial Stun Edge is Ky’s better tool for zoning. However, they leave clear blind spots for you to run under depending on which version Ky uses. One weakness of all versions of Stun Edge is that it leaves Ky vulnerable to counter hits during the recovery frames. Experiment with your character's options to find a way to exploit this.

 Sol: Night Raid VortexGGST Sol Badguy 214S 1.pngGuardAllStartup15~31 [32]Recovery32 [26]Advantage-17 (214S) can low-profile under Stun Edge and punish the recovery. At long distances, you can use Vortex to punish Stun Edge on reaction.
 Ky: Stun DipperGGST Ky Kiske 236K 1.pngGuardLow, AllStartup7Recovery30Advantage-19 [-14] (236K) can low-profile under Stun Edge and punish the recovery, though you need to be somewhat close to ensure it will reach.
 Axl: RensenGGST Axl Low 46S.pngGuardAllStartup24Recovery29Advantage-19~-9 ([4]6S) will nullify Stun Edge and punish from long distances.
 Nagoriyuki: ZarameyukiGGST Nagoriyuki Zarameyuki1.pngGuardAllStartup18~29RecoveryTotal 39Advantage+5 (236S) beats Stun Edge, allowing you to deal damage and build Blood Gauge. You can also teleport after shooting the clone for a safe approach. With enough Blood Gauge, 5HGGST Nagoriyuki 5HComparison.pngGuardAllStartup16Recovery27Advantage-14 becomes large enough to contest Stun Edge during the start-up.
 Leo: Gravierte Würde'sGGST Leo Whitefang Graviert Wurde.pngGuardAllStartup10RecoveryTotal 50FAdvantage-12 ([4]6S) first hit will absorb Stun Edge, the second hit will continue as normal.
 I-No: Stroke The Big TreeGGST I-No Stroke the Big Tree.pngGuardLowStartup28Recovery16Advantage-2 (236H) can slide under Stun Edge in neutral, during blockstrings, and punish when at midrange or closer. Ky can counter your predicted Stroke in neutral by using 2SGGST Ky Kiske 2S.pngGuardLowStartup11Recovery20Advantage-8

Stun Edge Countermeasure Recipes
Character Name Recipe Number Difficulty Notes
PC
 Sol Type of countermeasure: Low Profile: Use 214S to land a counterhit on Stun Edge in its recovery. 45528 Easy Ky will Stun Edge as soon as the recording starts, input Vortex as fast as possible.
 Ky Type of countermeasure: Low Profile: Interrupt Ky's blockstring using 236K. 45531 Normal Low profile Ky mid blockstring by interrupting the recovery of his Stun Edge.
 Axl Type of countermeasure: Nullification: Cancel out Ky's Stun Edge with [4]6S. 45536 Hard Ky will block for a second or two and then Stun Edge, punish him when you see the Stun Edge startup.
 Nagoriyuki Type of countermeasure: Counterhit: Stuff out the Stun Edge startup at long range with 5H. 45539 Hard Ky will crouch block for a second or two and then Stun Edge, Walk forward while he is crouch blocking and then react to the Stun Edge startup with 5H and hit him.
 Leo Type of countermeasure: Nullification: Use [4]6S to land a counterhit on Stun Edge during Kys blockstring. 45540 Normal Ky will do a blockstring into Stun Edge, stuff out the Stun Edge mid blockstring.
 I-No Type of countermeasure: Low Profile: Use 236H to low profile Ky mid blockstring. 45544 Normal Ky will do a blockstring into Stun Edge, slide under the Stun Edge mid blockstring and counterhit him for a combo.

Don't approach Ky if you don't have to. Approaching an opponent always carries risk. If you have a significant life lead, Ky will be forced to approach you or risk losing to the round timer. If Ky keeps shooting at long range despite being at a life deficit, you can jump over the grounded Stun Edge and duck under the horizontal aerial one. Keep doing this until he is forced to switch his strategy to a less favorable one.

One last thing to be wary of is Ky's projectile Overdrive Sacred EdgeGGST Ky Kiske 236236P.pngGuardAll [All (Guard Crush)]Startup4+3RecoveryTotal 38Advantage+10 [+26]. This is a large and fast moving projectile that's very advantageous on block. It gains more damage and frame advantage when hitting an opponent in Shock State. It's usually used as combo filler to add more damage, but it also works as an anti-zoning tool as it blows through ordinary projectiles. If Ky chooses to use it as the wall breaking Overdrive, it'll put you into the Shock State in addition to the usual Overdrive wall break hard knockdown, giving Ky more pressure options afterwards. The resulting Positive Bonus will also quickly replenish the spent Tension. It can’t be punished on startup, so really, the only thing that can be done to defend against this is blocking it.

Offense


Ky's abare buttons are his previously mentioned 5P and 2P. He could also use Stun Dipper to steal a turn or convert into a combo if he has Tension for a Roman Cancel.

He has 2 versions his meterless invincible reversal DP, Vapor Thrust. The S versionGGST Ky Kiske 623S.pngGuardAllStartup11Recovery43Advantage-33 [-28] starts up faster at 11f, the H versionGGST Ky Kiske 623H.pngGuardAllStartup13Recovery44Advantage-38 [-33] is slower at 13f, and invincibility starts at frame 6. Finally, there's his invincible reversal Overdrive Ride the LightningGGST Ky Kiske 632146H.pngGuardAllStartup8+1Recovery99Advantage-82. Both can be baited out and punished, and like all DPs, Vapor Thrust is susceptible to throws during the start up.

Defense


At close range, Ky relies on good strike/throw offense to open opponents up, with mixups only being available with Tension or in Hard Knockdown situations. c.SGGST Ky Kiske cS.pngGuardAllStartup7Recovery10Advantage+1 and 5K are his best tools to start/restart his pressure with. c.S has a lot of active frames, threatens with high damage, and has a variety of useful gatlings to threaten with frametraps, namely f.S, 2D, 6H and 5DGGST Ky Kiske 5D.pngGuardHighStartup20Recovery25Advantage-15. It is the easiest to use and a good, basic meaty to start offense up close. 5K's unusually long active frames, low recovery and status as a low make it an excellent meaty if it hits at its latest active frames. It is a +5, reversal safe, low meaty, and one of Ky’s strongest normals.

During any of Ky’s blockstrings, buffering a dash block during blockstun before Ky uses his special move can threaten a large majority of his pressure.

  • You can get a potential Instant Block on Dire Eclat (making it punishable)
  • You’ll block Stun Edge (making it punishable)
  • You’ll side switch Foudre Arc, allowing you to both punish it and put Ky in the corner

You can do this even in the corner, and it can really help you with Instant Block timings.

Dealing with 5K Setups

Ky’s 5K is used for a majority of his strike/throw setups. His most ambiguous setup is dash > 5K > pause > throw. When weighing your options to beat strike/throw, keep in mind that if you’re trying to do buttons preemptively to beat them, Ky’s counter hit combos are his strongest ones. Not only do they do a healthy chunk of damage, but Ky’s combos are great for carrying you to the corner as well. You can jump during the pause in order to mitigate the throw, but you need to be careful if you press a button on your way down, as Ky can hit you with 6P. When dealing with his strike/throw game, keep in mind that run up 5K/5P are difficult to react to, but if you block these normals with Faultless Defense, you’ll push Ky a bit further out, giving you more time to react. His options post 5K > dash > 5K include:

Layer 1:

  • Dash up > crouch blocking (which baits out invincible reversals)
  • Dash up > throw

These options can be beaten by backdashing on wake up and punishing the crouch block/throw with a throw of your own.

Layer 2:

  • 2D (which punishes backdash).

This leaves Ky vulnerable to invincible reversals.

It is possible to option select both layers of offense. In GGST, you cannot be thrown 5 frames after you get up from a knockdown. The idea is to block on wakeup, then throw, backdash, or jump in that 5 frame window. You can input 4D after blocking the 5K, but if Ky goes for the 2D, you’ll still block it. Also remember to use Faultless Defense on the 5K during your wakeup to give yourself more space and keep from getting tick thrown. If you have meter, backdash + BRC also beats strike/throw. This is easy to mash in the corner, but harder midscreen. If Ky does 6KGGST Ky Kiske 6K.pngGuardAllStartup25Recovery11Advantage+4 after the OTG 5K, it’s a frame kill that leads to an autotimed throw. Mash your character's 5 frame button here.

Dealing with Charged Stun Edge Okizeme

Charged Stun EdgeGGST Ky Kiske 236H.pngGuardAllStartup39RecoveryTotal 62Advantage+22 [+25] is a larger, multi hitting version of Stun Edge that is that is very advantageous on contact, allowing Ky to attempt further pressure and mixups. It’s Ky’s main okizeme tool after scoring a hard knockdown. In the corner, the only thing Charged Stun Edge is vulnerable to is invincible reversal Overdrives, and they need to be timed well. Ky’s able to do a variety of mix ups, and a number of combos give him an opportunity to set Charged Stun Edge up again, allowing him to potentially loop Charged Stun Edge setups. This is effectively Ky’s win condition. You’re going to want to save your Burst and Tension for when you get into these situations. Charged Stun Edge is best used as Okizeme. Ky shouldn’t be using this from longer ranges, as the move’s long 39 frame start up leaves him vulnerable to aerial approaches or counter zoning, so if you see a Ky trying to use this from a distance, bear that in mind.

Common Safe Jumps

Ky has a number of common safe jumps/approach options after these specific situations:

  • After Dire Eclat (air dash forward > j.SGGST Ky Kiske jS.pngGuardHighStartup7Recovery21Advantage0 (IAD))
  • After a wallbreak from an Overdrive (dash up > 5K)
  • After a throw OTG (throw > dash up > 5K > dash up > 5K)

These are instances where Ky can’t really be challenged, so avoid mashing/inputting a reversal here.

Dealing with Dragon Install

Dragon InstallGGST Ky Kiske 214214H 1.pngGuardAllStartup11+1Recovery25Advantage+4 is a transformation Overdrive for enabling comebacks. Ky's ground dash speed becomes extremely fast, and he gains access to powered-up special moves and Overdrives. The enhanced moves can be considered of even greater power than their Shock State versions, retaining (or further improving) their enhanced frame data while dealing higher damage on hit and tripled chip damage on block. Going for Dragon Install is an option that Kys will rarely resort to/rarely get the chance to resort to. He can combo into it from his normals as well as wallbreak with it, but if he’s doing this from a distance, he’s vulnerable for 25 frames. If you’re able to zone him out, try and prevent him from getting in and inflicting damage while he’s in this state.

Dragon Install is a true blockstring from any of Ky's normals except for 5P/2P/5K/2K, and plus on block afterwards. You can punish the recovery at most ranges if he does it in neutral. It also has no invulnerability. If Ky does it close to you outside of pressure, input a reversal during the cinematic super freeze to invul through it and punish.

When transformed:

  • None of Ky's normals change.
  • Ky's grounded forward dash becomes almost as fast as  Millia's.
  • Treat Ky's specials as if they're always the Shock State versions. This means Foudre Arc is always plus and Stun Dipper is always -10 rather than -15.
  • Dire Eclat becomes almost impossible to punish without Instant Blocking due to the increased pushback.
  • Ky's chip damage on all Specials and Overdrives increases significantly. Make sure to use Faultless Defense when low on HP.
  • Watch out for Gold Bursts, which will immediately recoup the tension cost and give him lots of options to work with.

References/Resources

Tips against Ky Kiske | Guilty Gear Strive by djq

Tips against Ky Kiske 2 | Guilty Gear Strive by djq

The Ky Killer Tech | Guilty Gear Strive by djq

How to Beat Ky Kiske's Best Move | Guilty Gear Strive Season 2 by djq

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