GGACR/I-No/Structuring Useful Practice 3: Difference between revisions

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==I'm having trouble with movement==
==I'm having trouble with movement==
I-No's movement is tricky. Dashing forward has startup and puts you in the air where you need meter to be able to block. Sometimes you fight characters like Venom or Robo Ky who can fill the screen with junk, and if your movement isn't on point you'll get blown up. I think specific movement for how to deal with those characters will go into their individual matchup guides, but for a more generalized
I-No's movement is tricky. Dashing forward has startup and puts you in the air where you need meter to be able to block. Sometimes you fight characters like Venom or Robo Ky who can fill the screen with junk, and if your movement isn't on point you'll get blown up. There are some basic suggestions for practicing movement in Structuring Useful Practice parts 1 and 2, and anything specific to a matchup (such as tips to avoid Robo Ky's cluster missiles) will be in the corresponding matchup page.
 


*Always remember that you can pick a character in training mode, record them doing the thing that gives you a hard time in neutral, play it back and try to dodge it.
*If you're on the PC version of +R you can also load up replays of your opponent doing something that gave you a hard time and "take control" to practice dealing with that exact setup.


==It feels like I have to commit a lot on offense==
==It feels like I have to commit a lot on offense==

Revision as of 22:16, 8 August 2021

Recognize your problems and solve them (Intro)

This is the part that starts to get a little more character specific. First, let's recognize what kind of problems you might be having and break down solutions.
Note: The objective here isn't to list every problem, or to list "most common" problems. It's to suggest how you go about identifying and figuring out how to solve those problems!


How do I deal with X / My opponent keeps opening me up with X

You've done the first step already, which is identifying what's hitting you. You should also take an extra step back to figure out the circumstances leading up to that so that you have more than one plan on how to solve the problem. Let's look at some examples:

  • Help, my opponent always hits me with overheads!
    • Which overhead are you getting hit by?
      • If it's 5D you may just need more recognition of the move. Same with other "slow" overheads like Faust 6H, Bandit Bringer, Greed Sever, etc.
      • If it's something like TK Youzansen in the middle of a blockstring, look at your opponent's gatling tree to see where they can jump cancel, and where those jump cancels can also lead to lows. So in Baiken's case, she can't go into a low following 6P or 2D, so even though she can jump cancel those, you should always just block standing on reaction to them on block, because she can't hit you low (at least not without using RC.) In fact, she has a legit mixup from 5P (2K or TK Youzansen) and c.S (2D or TK Youzansen), but from 5K and f.S she also can't go low despite being able to jump cancel.
      • If it's something like Millia's TK Badmoon, odds are she's not TKing them in the middle of a blockstring like the Baiken example. She's probably using it on oki, likely after setting up FB disc. In a situation like this, think about why she knocked you down in the first place, instead of immediately looking for a way to block better (because even if you come up with a method to block Badmoon on reaction, it's still hard to block Millia and you're going to get mixed up by something else). What did she hit you with that led to you getting knocked down, and what can you do to avoid getting hit by it? Maybe you could have safely bursted to get another chance at neutral, at the very least?
  • Help, I keep getting hit by Potemkin Buster!
    • On the surface level, you can try to jump more often in situations where Potemkin would try to use Potemkin buster. Identify those, such as:
      • After 2S > Hammerfall break.
      • After j.S > j.P > land
      • After meaty 5K oki
    • Alternatively, you can look at all of those situations and think about how you let Potemkin get close enough to put you in them in the first place.
      • Maybe you can outrun Potemkin and get him to overextend while he comes to you, creating situations to whiff punish?
      • Maybe you can zone Potemkin out with projectiles that are difficult for him to flick?


I wish my opponent would stop blocking / My opponent wont fall for my mixups

This is a problem, because you're I-No. You should be happy when your opponent blocks, because it means they're not trying to hit you. If they're not hitting you they're not winning, which means you're not losing.

That said, you need multiple layers to your mixup, or your opponent is going to be able to react and punish you. And most of the tools available to you actually leave gaps or have vulnerabilities. For example, I-No's forward dash, the hoverdash, which is one of the key mechanics of the character, has 9f of startup frames where you cannot act. Other characters can dash break immediately if they want to block, or press a button, do an invincible uppercut, etc. I-No leaves a gap that is minimum 9 frames wide when she wants to do her dash overheads.

If your opponent is blocking a multi-hit note, you have time to dash up j.K for a fast overhead. If not, you're taking a risk. Dashing forward in general is a risk. You also have TK dive as an overhead, which is only slightly slower than dash-up j.K. However, only the S version floats on regular hit and starts a combo, and that version is minus on block, so you give up your turn.


If you have an opponent who can react to your mixups and is waiting for you to make a mistake or overextend and leave a gap, it can actually be scary. Don't let it be, because that means your opponent is in your head and you've already lost.

If you don't want to take unnecessary risk, shoot a note from a range that it's multi-hit, or spend meter on FB note. This allows you to use hoverdash mixups and not necessarily give up your initiative if the mixup fails. If you don't have the meter, you can potentially do safe-ish frametraps until you build enough meter to run a proper mixup.

If your opponent doesn't have so much poise as to feel oppressive with their defense, you can be a little more wild. Consider doing empty dash > throw. Or "random" j.D in their face.


I can't challenge X move!

This can be the result of many things:

  • Bad timing on your part.
    • Sometimes your move would totally work, but you were too early or too late.
      • If the window is that tight to be successful, maybe look for another option? But it's hard to figure out if a move works or not when you're "doing it live", as in, actually in the match with your opponent. To get better at this you need to test things in training mode.
  • Using the wrong move to challenge "x move" your opponent uses.
    • Sometimes you're trying to challenge a move like Sol's 6P with I-No's 2K, with the intent to "go underneath it" with the low-profile frames. However, that wont actually work.
      • Sol's 6P reaches low enough to catch I-No's 2K. You could STBT under it, or you can space your 5H from far enough away that you'll counterhit Sol with it. And the reward is better than what you would get if 2K had worked, and combos into STBT-H without the prorate, so it's better than that outcome too.
  • Trying to directly challenge the move instead of punishing it on block, or making it whiff so you can punish.
    • If Sol does a blockstring into Bandit Bringer, you're not going to succeed at directly challenging it from the ground.
      • You don't have time to 6H or momentum carry VCL. You can't 5P or 6P through that hitbox.
      • You can IB the previous hit in the blockstring and jump to meet Sol with j.P to counterhit him.
      • If Sol did Bandit Bringer too close, you can IB it to make him minus on block and throw his recovery.
      • You can IB the previous hit in the blockstring and jump to IB the Bandit Bringer, giving yourself a much larger punish window.
      • You can Slashback the Bandit Bringer to punish Sol.
      • I-No has the option of using 2K under the Bandit Bringer, but it's frame perfect with 2K's low-profile frames. This creates a situation where Sol can't RC the Bandit Bringer to be safe against your slashback or instant block, or to run some kind of mixup. He would have had to FRC the Bandit Bringer before active.
        • However, the punish window is 5 frames, so you have to do a frame-perfect low profile and then a frame-perfect punish with 2P (or 2K if the Bandit Bringer is too far away, though it prorates slightly harder than 2P).


Consider your opponent's perspective

I'll point out that you should consider your opponent's perspective in this. I-No has a lot of moves that don't have great hitboxes (though she does have some good ones). However, good timing with their use can lead to your opponent thinking they can't challenge those moves. Examples:

Kdive and Sdive

K dive and S dive look very similar, though they attack at slightly different angles. Sdive causes float, so it starts combos on regular hit, but prorates them, and is minus on block. Kdive causes knockdown, but on counterhit it causes floorslide and starts an unprorated combo, and is slightly plus on block.

You can TK either of these moves, and by that I mean, use them just as you leave the ground, or use them as close to the minimum height where the hitbox goes active, as possible (may not be a "true" TK where you input an up at the end of the input, like 2369K/S). You can also jump and input it slightly later, or you can jump to full jump height and input it. You can also hold the move's startup slightly to mess with your opponent's timing (though this is honestly kind of gimmicky - it helps more to make combos work in the corner).

However, all of this comes together to mean something:

  • You have a very strong game of jumping over normals and scoring a whiff punish against them with Sdive for a combo.
  • Varying between Sdive and Kdive can allow you to still get combos while "stealing" turns with the frame advantage from Kdive.
    • You can go into 5P for a fast normal (including intentional whiff > throw as a gimmick mixup), 6P to try to blow through what they do and encourage them to poke low under it, or another TK dive to punish that attempt at a low.
  • You can fish for counterhits with Kdive by trying to do the attack early, instead of going for a whiff punish.
    • You're specifically trying to hit them early, during the startup of their attacks, but they may be inclined to think the hitbox for either dive is a good one instead of inside I-No's hurtbox when you're successful.
    • Remember that the reward for a counterhit is potentially bigger than the reward for the regular hit from Sdive.
  • If your opponent thinks they cannot directly challenge the dives with a normal like their 6P, they may try to mash DP through these shenanigans.
  • The reality is, the gap is before the dive starts, so proper timing of whatever they want to mash with is what will allow them to succeed. However, this typically has to be done on prediction, and so now you've encouraged your opponent to mash on reaction to your jump.
    • There's myriad ways to punish this, but I'll just mention double jump > dive and drop the mic...


2S

You should have read about this in another part of the starter guide, but I-No's 2S is a great way to check people who think they're at a range where they can challenge I-No. To be fair, they're mostly correct - they can challenge her other moves quite well. But 2S has tons of range (she slides forward for a few frames in +R, giving it extra range), and so you can try to be active when your opponent is preparing. Though 2S is only slightly disjointed in front, has a vertically thin hitbox, and has a lot of hurtbox (lacking low-profile frames), you can be very deceptive with I-No's poke timing and make this move appear fearsome.

2S use is much more straightforward than TK dive gimmicks. Be at the ideal range to use it, which is typically at a range where your opponent has to overextend to try to challenge you by moving forward or using a special move. Typically from that range you can react to the special move and either be safe or punish it on block. If your opponent tried to move, they got hit. Hooray, free hit. If they back up, f.S becomes more useful.


  • Don't overextend yourself trying to 2D knockdown from too far away when your 2S hit someone crouching.
    • I'm going to reiterate this. There are a lot of situations where you'll surprisingly get a 2S hit against crouching (bad timing on your opponent trying to crouching dash break, or maybe you CH their 2D startup). Be patient and do not overextend by inputting 2D or HCL when it's going to whiff, or you blow this whole strategy up! Frustrate your opponent by continuing to keep them out, or by forcing them to overextend while trying to deal with 2S so that your other moves, that have bigger/better rewards (including against a crouching opponent) are successful.
  • Your opponent may have tools that allow them to approach through where 2S would hit them, but again, if they have to start those tools from that far away, you should have enough time to react and be safe. If the tool allows them to keep their turn, odds are it cost meter, so hey, you burned their meter. Still a win in a way.
    • If you cannot safely deal with the move, hopefully it's meter limited. If not, look for another strategy.
  • Against standing hit you can typically cancel into HCL to score a knockdown, which is pretty strong.
    • Depending on positioning, available meter, and who you hit, you may even be able to HCL > FRC > 5K > HCL 6FRC6 for a full conversion. Or against lightweights you might be able to HCL > FRC > TK HCL (to get your jump install that you can't get from the 2S). This is incredibly dangerous. Imagine if other characters could convert a stray regular hit f.S into a 40% combo for 50% meter.


I'm having trouble with movement

I-No's movement is tricky. Dashing forward has startup and puts you in the air where you need meter to be able to block. Sometimes you fight characters like Venom or Robo Ky who can fill the screen with junk, and if your movement isn't on point you'll get blown up. There are some basic suggestions for practicing movement in Structuring Useful Practice parts 1 and 2, and anything specific to a matchup (such as tips to avoid Robo Ky's cluster missiles) will be in the corresponding matchup page.

  • Always remember that you can pick a character in training mode, record them doing the thing that gives you a hard time in neutral, play it back and try to dodge it.
  • If you're on the PC version of +R you can also load up replays of your opponent doing something that gave you a hard time and "take control" to practice dealing with that exact setup.

It feels like I have to commit a lot on offense

"Hoverdash has startup that leaves a gap if I don't pressure with f.S or note first. f.S's + frames aren't enough to cover dashing in, and I can't always set up a note because it's slow. Moreover, sometimes they block that initial mix and then I have to commit to a dash to run another mixup, or TK dive and risk getting 6P'd or DP'd. Is this why I-No is low tier?"

I wouldn't call her low tier, not that tiers in this game matter. Personally I'd put her near the "top of mid," whatever that means to you. Stop underrating your character.

Hoverdash is a double-edged sword. You get fast overheads and safe-jumps, but lose microdash pressure and have a massive hurtbox. However, while you commit more in some situations, you also have tools that allow you to be really free-form and non-committal. Understand what limits you, and what empowers you:


Limitations

  • All of I-No's air normals are rather high commitment on whiff.
    • j.P does not self-gatling on whiff like a lot of other characters.
    • j.K has massive recovery. If you use it on the way up during a super jump, you can do something just before you land (but you wont notice it unless it's something that keeps you airborne like HCL or j.236D).
    • j.S has a lousy hitbox inside the hurtbox, so it's rare that you would poke with it.
    • j.H has so much recovery that you're not doing anything else until you land, and all of it is in counterhit state.
    • j.D has landing recovery.
  • I-No cannot use conventional microdash pressure due to her dash startup.


Benefits you may not have considered

  • j.S and j.D can both jump cancel.
  • All of I-No's air normals other than j.D can gatling to j.D.
  • I-No's 5P and 2P gatling on whiff to all of her P and K normals.
    • This also means she can delay gatliing. This is a huge component of making the mixup unreactable. Read this breakdown for some ideas.
  • Hoverdash works when it's going over lows (and doesn't work against all lows). It's a guess more than a default option.


What you're probably doing wrong

Wrong is subjective, because sometimes the "wrong" move is the right move. That's really up to what your opponent is doing. That said:

  • Don't just dash in at the end of a pressure string.
  • Don't just HCL or STBT at the end of every block string.


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