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Revision as of 18:20, 27 November 2022

DBFZ Physical Clash Study

Attribute

Physical: "Air attack" (head) and body. Foot attribute doesn't seem to exist (yet?)

Projectile: P1 and P2 exist. Unsure if P3 (super) exists. Projectiles also seem to have head and body.

What does clashing do

DBFZ Clash.png

Physical clashing gives both character 10% Ki gauge, and each of them can cancel the clashing attack into any other action at no cost. This includes Reflect, DR, or even jump and forward airdash during Sparking. Normals can only be cancelled into if they haven't be used in the string. Specials, Supers, Meteors have infinite usage (if they don't have an only-once-until-landing requirement).

Attack Level

"Normal" physical attacks of the same Attack Level will clash with one another when their hitboxes overlap.

Different ALs don't clash, but if they trade (hitboxes do not have to overlap), the attack with higher AL will gain invulnerability (to everything or only to the trading attack?) for as long as they're still trading, effectively winning the exchange.

  • Level 1 (L normals)
  • Level 2 (M normals)
  • Level 3 (air H normals and most Special Attacks)
  • Level 4 (ground H normals)

Exceptions

Attacks with "no clash" property... cannot clash, in situations where their hitboxes overlap as they trade, the result is an expected trade. However, they're still affected by ALs, which means they will "lose" to a higher AL attack.

Attacks with "Super" property only clash with themselves, even if they don't belong to the same AL. Though similar to "no clash", they're still affected by ALs and will lose to higher ALs.

Attacks with "grab" ("hit grab") property cannot clash, however, they are NOT affected by AL. If a "grab" trade with the other 3 types, "grab" will win the exchange every single time. However if a "grab" trade with a "grab", the character that landed the last attack (blocked or hit) will win the exchange.

Training mode's default "last offender/defender" flag is decided by Player 1's team:

First char: Last defender (always loses after a reset)

Second char: Last offender (always wins)

Third char: Last offender

Examples

Example 1

We'll be using Teen Gohan's 214X as the main test subject. All 3 versions of this move have AL 3, but 214L is a "no clash", and 214H is a "Super".

Here we have Gohan doing 214X against himself doing the same attack.

As expected from a "normal" attack, the moment the two's hitboxes touched, a clash happens.

With "no clash", the hitboxes simply passed through one another, and both got hit.

Gohan's 214H just clashed with itself, but at the same time with SSB Goku's 214L+M, despite it being AL 4. Showing that "Super" will always clash with one another.

Cell's 5H (an AL 4) beats all 3 versions completely unscathed, despite 2 of them being frame 1 full invul attacks.

This is because while they're still trading, 5H gained invul to continue trading with 214M and 214H, but their invuls ran out while 5H was still active.

Example 2

This time, we'll be bringing in "hit grab" attacks. Goku Black's 214M and 214H are AL 3, while SS Vegeta's 5LLL is AL 4.

Coloring

5L Data

+4 +4 +4 +3 ±0 ±0 ±0 -4 -8 -8

|||| |||| |||| |||| ||||

Custom Move Test

5M

5M

5M

| height="25px"| 550×2 | All | | 10 | 4(8)4 | 16 | -4 | -

5M

Jet Uppercut

236L/M/H

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

anotha one

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Line Break Test

Section 1

Senzu Bean
22L
Template:AttackDataHeader-DBFZ
  • AAAA

Section 2

Senzu Bean
22M
Template:AttackDataHeader-DBFZ
  • BBBB

Section 3

Senzu Bean
22H
Template:AttackDataHeader-DBFZ
  • CCCC

Roster Test

Tien Yamcha Krillin Goku (Super Saiyan) Frieza Kid Buu Captain Ginyu Nappa

Goku (SSGSS) Gohan (Adult) Trunks Vegeta (Super Saiyan) Cell Android 18 Android 16 Android 21

Vegeta (SSGSS) Gotenks Piccolo Gohan (Teen) Majin Buu Beerus Hit Goku Black


Bardock Broly Vegito (SSGSS) Zamasu (Fused) Goku Vegeta Android 17 Cooler

Videl Jiren Goku (GT) Janemba Gogeta (SSGSS) Broly (DBS)

Kefla Goku (Ultra Instinct) Master Roshi Super Baby 2 Gogeta (SS4) Android 21 (Lab Coat)

Link test

abc000def

abc000def

Ver.1.31

aaaa

Ver.1.31

aaaa

Version Nav

Ver.1.28

Date Released: No results

Link

Error: No field named "source" found for any of the specified database tables.
Previous Version

1.27

Next Version

1.29

Cargo query: No results

Error: Invalid time.

No results

Manually set: 2021-08-10

Tue, 10 Aug 2021 00:00:00 +0000

1.27

Smash system

This will need a rewrite at the some point. But here's a quick rundown:

  • DBFZ combo structure consists of 2 "Smash" (stronger version of attacks): Up and Down, with a plus sign indicating a launching Up Smash or a Down Smash linked to launching property. Smash usually triggers immediately on hit, but some multi-part attacks can have a specific part this occurs.
  • "1" means the move only Smash once. "2" means it can Smash even if the same type has been used. "3" means it always Smash.
  • Smash is often signified by a camera angle change or a cinematic. But just because it causes a cinematic does not necessary mean it's a Smash hit, and vice versa.

Since this is all tested in-game, I have no idea what they're called or how they actually work in the code.

This system works fine for the most part, but there are a few weird edge cases. Here are some notable issues I have with it:

Smash type is subjective

DBFZ KidBuu MysticArmSwing.png

5LLLLLLL is listed as D2+, since you can't get 5LLL to launch more than once even with "fake" combos. However, before patch 1.15, Trunks' 5LLL was bugged and launched every time, you'd find that 5LLLLLLL was actually D3+, i.e. you could endlessly loop them.

Imo, calling 5LLLLLLL D2+ makes the most sense. But if we wanna stay true to the game's code, 5LLLLLLL should be called D3+ instead.

Another example would be Kid Buu 214L/M/H. 214L always causes a sliding knockdown (SKD) that is not extendable in any way beside going into Supers. Mean while, 214M and 214H are U1+ that ground bounce, but if a U Smash has been used (post U Smash), they would act the same as 214L.

So I'd call 214L D2, since SKD is commonly associated with D Smash and "2" because it's a command grab thus is impossible to connect twice per combo, and say that 214M/H causes SKD on "non-Smash" hit. Of course it's also probable that 214L doesn't have any Smash at all, or that it's D3 or U3, there's no way we would know just using what the game gives us.

Multi-part

There are a lot of moves that behave differently on whiff/block/hit. Like Cell 214L/M/H having 3 parts: upward kick (block/hit) > elbow (hit) > kick.

To get around this without fragmenting these moves into different data sections, I've been doing something like this:

Hors d'Oeuvre Stab
214L/M/H (Air OK)
DBFZ Android21 HorsDOeuvreStab.png
Template:AttackDataHeader-DBFZ
L 200,800 / 200,300 / 0,1000 All U1+ 15 6 - -
M 200,800 / 200,300 / 0,1100 All U1+ 17 7 - -
H 600,1000 / 600,1000 / 0,1200 All U1+ 15 7 - -
  • Damage: Raw / Non-Smash / Smash
  • Two parts: dive and ground splash. Smash triggers on the dive.

What this is supposed to convey is if you use 214L pre U Smash, hitting with the ground splash does 800 damage, hitting with the dive locks you into a cinematic and does 0+1000 damage, while post U Smash the whole move will do 200+300. However since hitting armors doesn't trigger Smash nor start a combo, I can test all "raw" damage values and confirm that a raw dive would do 200, despite there are zero applications.

It doesn't matter if I write it as Raw / Non-Smash / Smash or Raw / Smash / Non-Smash. But I had to pick one for consistency sake, and it has a small sense of progression. Though since most moves Smash immediately on hit, Raw / Smash / Non-Smash is also a valid choice.

Attacks with more than one Smash type

Supers

On hit, all Supers (and a couple of other attacks) would eat up U Smash, D Smash, and specifically Vanish' U2 Smash, but any other "2" or "3" are unaffected. I call this phenomenon a "UDV" (Up, Down, Vanish) consumption, but really it can be called anything. An "X" would suffice so as long as it signifies they don't have Smash properties themselves, but rather just prevent further Smashes.

Edge case 1: Vegeta (SSGSS) 236[L+M]

DBFZ SSBVegeta NiagaraPummel.png

On Smash hit, it causes a wall bounds. However:

  1. This doesn't happen post U Smash AND post D Smash
  2. Regardless if it Smash or not, it's still UDV like other Supers

You can say it's "UD1, UDV" as in "type UD1, but consumes Vanish' Smash". Or you can just keep it simply UDV or even UDV1, I have no idea.

Even more peculiar, before patch 1.15, it actually did wall bounce post D Smash, making it "U1, UDV".

Edge case 2: Vegeta (SSGSS) 214M/H

DBFZ SSBVegeta OnAScaleOfOneToTen.png

These moves are fairly similar to Kid Buu 214L/M/H: 214L always causes SKD and isn't extendable (D2), 214M/H pre U Smash do an extra kick that wall bounces, post U Smash doesn't have the kick and just slam them down into SKD like 214L (U1+). What's interesting is that you can cancel 214M/H before the kick, which leaves them in SKD. And if you cancel into 236[L+M] which can OTG like all Supers, it would wall bound, which could potentially mean the grab portion doesn't have Smash property.

It would just have been a normal Smash attack if it had only been "Smash causes wall bounce, non-Smash causes SKD". But the inclusion of "Smash on the kick" makes it one of a kind as the kick doesn't always come out. The game has to detect that U Smash hasn't been used to trigger the kick, but it also doesn't consume U Smash until afterward.

Edge case 3: Goku 214M

While 214L always corner bounds and consumes U Smash (U2), and 214H pre U Smash does an extra elbow, post U Smash just throws into corner bounds like 214L (U1+). The easiest way to describe 214M would be: U Smash on the throw, D Smash on the dive.

  • A raw 214M would eat up both Smash and give you SKD
  • Post U Smash 214M would still eat up D Smash and give you SKD.
  • But post D Smash 214M would eat up U Smash while giving you a corner bound without any divekick.

This is a direct contrast to Vegeta (SSGSS) 236[L+M], as despite both moves consuming U and D Smash, one behaves exactly the same post U Smash while the other doesn't.

I've been thinking and it's probably more like a D Smash that consumes U, so "D1, UD" or something like that, and "non-Smash" hit is the corner bound.

Edge case 4: Goku (SSGSS) 214M/H

DBFZ SSBGoku SuperGodShockFlash-2.png

Patch 1.21 kind of confirmed my speculation about Kid Buu 214L being D2. As now Goku (SSGSS) 214L always causes SKD, but is extendable, so you can confirm that it is in fact a D Smash.

Before the patch however, all of his 214L/M/H were U Smash. By changing 214L Smash type, they introduced a new edge case: raw 214M/H would corner bound/bounce and eat U Smash, but post U Smash, they cause SKD and eat D Smash like 214L. I can't just say "214M/H cause SKD on non-Smash hit" like Kid Buu's case.

Currently, I'm denoting it as "D2 / U1". But this looks rather confusing.

Edge case 5: Vegeta (Super Saiyan) j.214M

DBFZ SSVegeta CrushingKneeKick.png

This is only before patch 1.15, but his j.214M used to be D1 and D1+. Both Smash caused SKD, but D1+ had a significantly longer slide. The game would prioritize D1+ over D1, i.e. if the conditions for + Smash were satisfied, j.214M would do D1+ slide.

As of that patch, it's only D1 but with a slide in between the old D1 and D1+.