Elphelt vs Bedman

[Magaki]

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

[Magaki]

 Elphelt Board posts:
 

Daidouji:

So I just played a good chunk of matches with a pretty decent Bedman for the first time in months. Can someone please tell what the hell your supposed to do against this guy?? I was completely lost when he managed to lock me down and whenever I lost offensive momentum it was pretty much over for me most of the time if I didn't have a burst or meter to dead angle.
 

Magaki: 

His pressure and neutral can be pretty good once he gets seal setups. Keyword here is "setup" and making sure he won't get them is the most important part of this matchup.

Because every special will give him a seal allowing him to use his deja vu specials, you have to keep in mind that he obviously need to commit to using those specials in the first place.

Didn't play against that many Bedman in 1.1 but matchup seem to still be exactly the same as in 1.0 though.
Plenty of tools Elphelt has that are risky or can be easily countered in most matchups isn't with Bedman at all.

For instance, IAD back>j236P>j4P gets beaten flat by people choosing to simply rush Elphelt with a simple dash or IAD resulting in you in recovery with a grenade activated right before their face.
This risk doesn't exist with Bedman simply because his mobility is one of the worst and he got no way to stop you from doing just that. In fact, his only answer would be to use a special to get a seal to have some momentum too but the recovery on them is pretty big and the fastest one is 236P or j236P which is his main zoning tool that however disappear on BLOCK. Whether the projectiles cancel each other or Bedman get hit/block, it's generally always in Elphelt's favour.
Of course he can go for other specials but the big recovery on it makes the situation worse.

To be honest, the gameplan neutral-wise in that matchup is just always the same. Throw a grenade and rush him down. Elphelt wins on the ground and her air game against him is even better and his seals will tend to pop more often than not due to Elphelt's hitboxes.

Speaking of her air game, his air combo routes are very unstable and j236S only gives knockdown at low height making air throws his best air-to-air option against her. Problem for him though, the untech on it is meh so he can't setup any seal after it and has to just go for a simple meaty. That's why if you want to observe whatever the Bedman player is doing, you might want to stay in the air that got a much better risk/reward ratio for you in that matchup.

There are also other stuff in neutral you can use that is really annoying for him. For example, that's the only matchup where rifle in neutral is legit very strong and annoying for him to deal with. Of course, there is still the threat of 3H that is now jump cancelable but he needs a hard read for that (unless you decide that using rifle and not shooting is a good idea of course.) and if you decide to rush him, he will be in recovery for a very long time due to 3H's horrible frame data.

Defense-wise, the only tools you will need are generally backdash, fuzzy jumps and DAA. Judge tended to have the first hit whiff way too often for me so I just decided to use Dead Angle instead that seems to be a major headache when coupled with Elphelt's fast backdashes.
Obviously, fuzzy jumps if successful result in you in the air which is again where you might want to be against him.
 
Finally, don't get opened up by silly stuff like 236H or more known as the beddive (Just use cS that will beat both cross-ups and fake crossups. Blitzshield is great too if you want something faster) or Bedman who think that 993 jS/2K is a legit 50/50 (Against people who keep using that, just disrespect it. With 6S+H OS ideally. Otherwise, this is quite easy to fuzzy block. You risk getting thrown however with a fuzzy block.).
A good mixup option he got however is his IOH jD RC but that will only be dangerous most of the time on okizeme. In pressure, he needs to be quite close to really have an "instant" overhead. To be more specific, in throw range. The exception however is 5H(2) that vacuum and is jump cancelable on block. However, jump cancels can be delayed but not gatlings. So 5H(2)>2D obviously can't be delayed either meaning that a simple fuzzy block will deal with it flat.



That's the only things that comes to mind right now but matchup to sum it up is just horribly in Elphelt's favour and the Bedman players need to either be MUCH stronger than the Elphelt player or simply deal with an Elphelt that doesn't know the matchup at all.

 

Edit: For some reason, you can't edit big posts anymore. So can't put spoiler bracket for the post below. Sorry.

[Magaki]

 Bedman Board Posts:

Poultrygeist:

Unlike our DV seals, her grenades do not go away when you hit her, because we are not an attractive anime girl.  Please remember this Holiday season that waifu privilege is a very real and dangerous thing

[This post refers to the 1.0 grenade that didn't disappear on hit.]

 Tiamat:
 

DV seals actually don't go away when you get hit.  It's a Bedman myth!  Just like the seals being able to absorb hits even though attacks pass through them unaffected like a knife through delicious creamy butter.  

 

edit: well the attacks from the seals do go away if you get hit, just not the seals themselves

 Poultrygeist:

Anyone know how to do her unblockable?  I'd like to mess around and see if we have a good answer for it.

Tiamat: 

Well here's a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5yd_CiLXCM

 Andarel:

There's been some research done in the Elphelt forums - blitz shielding the grenade toss makes the unblockable either fail or be pretty low-reward (you spend 25%, get 12.5% back).  Can delay super shot to bait blitz shield, but there's not much reward off delayed shot.  If she does toss without YRC you can backdash or jump the sniper shot, you risk getting caught in recovery though if she delays shot.

 Poultrygeist:

Fighting this character makes me want to give a puppy the Stone Cold Stunner.  Pls send halp.

madworlder:

every time the stupid grenade eats task A
every time the stupid grenade hits me out of task C
every time the stupid grenade kills my stupid seals

every time

every time

 Poultrygeist:
 

FINALLY found a video of this god forsaken matchup: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25150111 (begins at 11:31).

 

It's not lookin' pretty dudes...granted it's possible this player may have done the MU incorrectly, after all this appears to be random netplay?  It seems like rocket launcher is pretty damn fast because I saw it straight up shit on Task A/Prime attempt.  It seems like her screen control is just too strong for us, we're very big and our shit takes time to set up.  I'll probably try to dissect this later, I'm super tired right now.  I'm just praying that this was a fluke/the player didn't understand El's game.   [:(]

 NecroTheReaper:

I know that we can walk under her 5HS for this MU... other than that, I've only faught like one that knew what they needed to do. I've just seen them do 5HS and sniper all day long. I think sniper is punishable if you forward dash through it though.

 Poultrygeist:
 

If you're quick you can 6HS (or f.S if you don't want to take risks) bridal expression on reaction.  I don't know if raw bridal express is even such a good idea, but there it is.

 

If you catch them trying her reversal super you can very quickly mash out a dash and be safe, but if you know it's coming it's probably better to just block and then 6P, especially since dash can be finnicky online.

 

Crawl does NOT go under rocket launcher for some god forsaken reason.  This move is also extremely fast so IDK what to do except jump it.  Funny enough Bedman's idle animation where he falls backwards?  THIS goes under the move.

 

And all this is just silly week 1 Elph stuff.  I really feel like this is gonna be a rough one guys.  It's too early in her existence to say whether or not she's Bedman's lousiest MU, but it's definitely confusing, so any and all information is welcome IMO.

 

All and all, my thoughts on this MU are https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o19CaOSuD8

 SoulKarl:

sniper is very punishable, and our odd jump seems to mess with a lot of elphets- I'm not sure I've ever been hit by it while airborn.

 c.Funky:
 

One of the hardest matchups, definetely. If she managed to lock you in the corner you are probably dead. However, she doesn't have good defensive options without 50 tension and even with that it's easy to bait, so if we managed to lock her in the corner we win. But her neutral game is much, MUCH better. I prefer to play zoning in this MU, and if she starts to use sniper rifle you can always use 3H or even try to dash in shot active frames to teleport (but it's really hard).

 

Also keep in mind that it's pretty hard to land 236k oki on elphelt because of her stupid wake up time, so don't really rely on it in this MU.

 Capcom is Ass:

 

 Alkipot:

This matchup is beyond stupid for Bedman, but at least her grenade throw is slow enough that you can easily dash into it and teleport through. Great for if she's trying to zone with rifle. You can also teleport off of the grenade explosion, but the timing is extremely tight and usually not worth it.
 

 NecroTheReaper:

Who are you guys fighting when it comes to this MU? Cuz while I hardly see her in ranked (damn sea full of Ky), I havnt lost to her there. I really enjoy just staying on the ground since our walk animation goes under her 5HS (though obviously not the biggest threat).

 Poultrygeist:

My best friend/main sparring opponent mains her and plays only her, so that's who I mostly see. Really if she's 5HSing recklessly you should be able to just dash through it.

 NecroTheReaper:

Yeah, but dash is a commitment, walking is... walking xD

 Poultrygeist:

For what it's worth: https://twitter.com/zidanel33t/status/553626025620668416

[Some misinformations here so clarifying everything:
-fS>2H got a 2f gap so no, you can't jump out of it on normal block. Need to IB.
-You can't jump out of meterless unblockable loop.
-SG-P xN>SG-H lead to a bit less than 100 damage + knockdown with nice tension. Not as dangerous as shotgun loop but you still don't want to give her this kind of advantage.
-level 2 shotgun shot or Powered SG-H like we call it doesn't leave stance and can be reloaded.
-Powered SG-H>Reload>SG-H got no gap
-SG-H>Reload xN got a 3f gap which is an issue for several characters. Bedman is one of them. Fuzzy jumping with air FD is generally your least risky/cheapest option to escape shotgun pressure but only for chars with 3f jump startup. Not the case for Bedman sadly.
-Reload got one less recovery frame than not reloading. SG-H is -2 without reloading. -1 with reloading.
]

 SecretAgentN3eal:

This matchup is very hard i try to save my burst as long as possible. Its winnable but you have to try way harder than her. I try to super jump and task b so i can get some got damn space to throw out a task a. But damn Elf sit on my face.

 rubedo777:
 

I don't see what is so hard about this matchup to be honest. I haven't run into any Elphelts online (low or high ranked) that would suggest it was a bad matchup. I didn't get a chance to fight Bananaken's though.

 

If you aren't instant blocking bridal express, I guess I can see why you might be having trouble. Grenades can be dash parried with ease. What exactly does she have that is a bad matchup for him?

 sylintasassyn:

 just registered but have lurked here for awhile. I think this match is tough depending on the skill level of the Elphelt player. I live in Houston so I play offline against Kid Viper so I can say firsthand that the match-up sucks. Lol Elphelt has really good movement but not many players are utilizing her mobility like they could. In the corner, it's really bad so I try to move around so I can fight her effectively. If anything, you can't get impatient against a good Elphelt because you might make a critical mistake and get destroyed.

 rubedo777:

But what exactly makes this a hard matchup? Her mobility?

 Dullyanna:

Grenade, options at neutral at a lot of ranges, strong pressure/rtsd/oki, grenade, hella good damage off stuff in corner which isn't an uncommon situation for Bedman to be in, also grenade. Also good alfs aren't going to be throwing out 5hs randomly, they're going to use it to limit where you can stick your shit out, keep you from getting air futbol out at a certain range, etc. I'm not going to say this is a bad matchup, but it's definitely a rough one and you really have to be constantly on point during neutral.

 sylintasassyn:

Mobility and her range on normals along with priority make it tough for me. Close S can make it tough to approach via air. If you get caught in a corner carry combo, then she can make it hard for you to get out of the corner. The unblockable can be set up or shotgun pressure can keep you in the corner. His big body doesn't help him in this situation either, imo. Elph always seems to have meter so that's a problem in itself. Lol

 rubedo777:

Grenade shouldn't be an issue at all...it's basically a free teleport parry. Yeah, the player might be waiting for the teleport but the teleport is not actually punishable. At worst, they will continue to pressure you but atleast the grenade won't be there locking you down.

 Tiamat:

It depends where you are on the screen though.  If teleport is going to move you behind her so you're near the corner that could be bad.  I don't think dashing into it every single time is a good idea.  

 sylintasassyn:

Trust me....it's not a good idea. lol  I agree with you completely.  A good player will take note the first time you do it....maybe they'll let you get away with it a second time but that's it. lol  I know that what I'm saying is probably falling on some deaf ears (not saying you, Tiamat) but I play against probably the best Elph in the U.S. lol  The matchup is a tough one if the Elph is really good.  

 Dullyanna:

Putting yourself right next to a pressure character and at disadvantage isn't really a good idea. Yeah she doesn't have grenade on you for now, but in a couple seconds she will and in the mean time you're very likely at - thus giving her pressure and time to get another grenade out anyways. Also yeah her cl.S means bad bedslams are going to get bodied, and because she can do it without directional input they don't even have to worry about crossup/non crossup.

 NecoTheReaper:

If you manage to knock her down and she feels like goin for reversal super, safejump j.S hits meaty, but strangely enough you cam 2P her after the superflash and it'll CH. Her super doesn't have a lot of invul does it?

Poultrygeist:

 Honestly why bother when her reversal super is so bad it will clash with whatever lol.  

 Alkipot:

If I suspect a wakeup super from her I just 882 on knockdown. Plenty of time for a big punish.

 GKHiryu:
 

Well here goes nothing.

I agree that the MU is on the harder side for Bedman. Elph's normals are an ass to play around, especially the air ones. I've got the best results (offline play, dedicated elph main) trying to bait airdashes with task A and careful 2/3H, then j.S'ing. J.S is very important for BE overall and it shines in this MU, being able to outrange most of her options and win against j.D if done right. j.S > Task B gives enough movement to evade grenades too. It's similar to Faust in that if you think for a second you can play real footsies then omae wa mou lost iru.

 

Another helpful thing is to block the strawberry and dash as it explodes, rather than do it earlier. That doesn't work too well if Elph's up close (duh), but if you have just a tiny bit of space to work with it nets good results, as the player will usually start doing something between strawberry throw and explosion.
 

HOWEVER

I'm getting completely and utterly raped by shotgun. I know BE has few options in defense in general, but I can't for the life of me believe that there's 5F delay anywhere between well placed shotgun attacks.

 

If my opp whips out the barfgun I can lay down the controller most of the time. Either I'm looking at 60-70% life loss before he gets bored and tries something else or he does it late in the match and I just don't get another chance. He simply cancels a normal into shotgun when I have the strawberry on me and does shot shot shot shot launch(S), shot shot shot launch. I've found nothing that may be used inbetween shotgun shots and my only hope so far was to predict/react to dash in strike. FD suggests that launch done perfectly after shot should give me as much as 32 frames to work with, but I've never managed to sqeeze in anything besides BS.

 

Should I just get some sleep and hit him out of launches?

 NecroTheReaper:

If the El your playing likes to do round start 2S, a slightly delayed 5K will beat it. If you CH, task B will combo and hopefully get ypu enough momentum before bullshit begins. She still has other options, but 2S seems like her most rewarding.

 Jais:

Anyone have a corner throw combo on her that actually KD's and is a close taskC seal?

I've given up on just settled for 5K > 5HS(1) xx BedSlam  [:(]

Everyone else I do that solid combos so it feels real bad man ...

 NecroTheReaper:

Throw>f.S>j.K>j.S>3j.S>236HS
 

 Poultrygeist:

Let's analyze this for a second.  

It looks like a lot of this is elephant in the room (or should I say Elphelt in the room) stuff that a lot of us knew subconsciously but didn't want to acknowledge.  It's time to face it guys, this matchup is ass, genuinely ass.  We're going to have to bust our balls for this one but...how?  What are we to do?  Bedman got some great buffs in 1.1, but none of them really help him contend with her.  I mean, it's true that against most Elph we're probably home free once we get her on defensive, but we have to get through her ridiculous neutral and if she wins that (which she likely will) we have to risk dealing with her even worse offense.  So what are we to do?  I feel like a lot of times you have to fight the player rather than the character, because no two players have the same weaknesses, but that just leads me to another problem, she has a huge toolkit that lends itself well to a lot of different play styles.  I personally feel like Xrd is a game where any matchup can be overcome, including this one, but how?  What answers do you propose to her common threats?

[This post refers to the Magaki's post concerning the Bedman MU on the Elphelt board]

 Tiamat:
 

At least grenade isn't like a meterless overdrive anymore.

 

Ground version of Bridal Express is now much easier to punish.  As long as you're not too far you can grab punish it.  If you're really close you can get 2P (this isn't new).

 

I don't agree with everything in that post but matchup is in her favor, just not as bad as before.

 GcYoshi13:
 

Neutral against Elphelt is tricky but once she's knocked down, it's the same stuff against any character. Her reversal options are limited, so that's one mark against her.

 

 

- Recklessly air dashing attacking is generally a bad idea because her ground normals cover the air well. Her 6H has a massive hitbox so it's bad news.

- Most strings that have her pull pineberry is negative I believe. You can counter poke with far S or 2S I believe. It may not punish but I think you're still plus.

- Ground bridal express is negative unless the active frames hit very late. You can at least throw it. If done closer to you, you can punish with c.S if you IB.

- Air bridal express is +, even with IB. However if you chicken guard it, you can air grab her. You may also be able to land and punish her if you're close enough to the ground.

- Shotgun is brutal, IBing it will allow you to poke her out of it if she does something else. Be wary of command grab.

- Her unblockable set-up can be escaped by blitz shielding then moving (either walk or dash works). 

- 6P will beat most things she does in the air. It may clash with her air bridal express.

- Do the basic combos on her (still hurts). She doesn't combo well with the new air combos. You can do 5H,1H, jump, air dash downforward, jP, ground Task C, 2P, 5S, jP, Task B for a double seal BNB but your timing needs to be good. All other new combo variations (dust combos for example) work well on Elphelt.

- You can use pineberry as an easy way to dash yourself out of a corner.

- Be wary of how your hits interact with her pineberry. If she activates it but keeps it on herself, you may need to adjust your combo.

 Magaki:

The grenade nerf barely affected her really. You can check the Elphelt changes thread for more details on her changes and I also explained some things concerning the grenade nerf here (Was made before we had the 1.1 patch.Though, I forgot to mention Bedman amongst the characters who got troubles dealing with it.)

I thought the grenade change would actually help those 4 characters but after checking more JP matches and personal experience, it's still the same thing. They got no way to make you think in neutral: "Maybe I shouldn't do that".
And thus, that's essentially free space control.

About Bridal, be really careful with that because you need to consider whether you should attempt to punish it or not based on distance. An easy thing you can do with Elphelt is to push the opponent as far as possible then use Bridal that will make it + on block and leave you out of throw range.
To give you an idea of its possible frame advantange, Bridal is -5 point blank with 12 active frames. That means that if it gets blocked at the last active frame, it becomes +7. Though, you will rarely get +7 but if you consider that Elphelt got a 4f jab, it means that even a +1 will make a big difference.
Rather, the best answer to both ground and air Bridal is IB>throw OS. But that's, again, not guaranteed but still the safest and most likely option rather than getting pressure reset for free.

To better deal with her in defense, I would suggest you to check the Sol matchup thread and come up with optimized answers to whatever she could throw out like Raiden did.

As for neutral, I don't think it's really surprising that Bedman is badly struggling against her. I don't play him but the character I enjoy playing the most is Potemkin and against Elphelt, Venom or Ramlethal (1.0 Ram at least), it's always the same problem: They can throw shit on the screen and there is nothing you can do about it to make them think that doing that is a bad idea and I'm pretty sure that's the same problem for Bedman simply because his mobility sucks too.
Obviously, Bedman can win in that matchup. But that would mean being much better than the Elphelt player and still doing more efforts. If I had to choose, I would definetely pick a sub to deal with her rather than play Bedman. Faust and Millia being probably the best choices.

If you disagree with some stuff I've said though, please point it out and I'll be glad to discuss it.

 NecroTheReaper:

I wont disagree with anything other than someone saying El falls apart on defense vs Bedman. Her 5HS can catch you comin from our normally best 45° angle for airdash pressure, and her c.S can take out alnost anything else. Makin them block task A without a YRC is an end to pressure which is actually bad cuz vs her neutral is terrible, not to mention her 2HS can low profile it from any non point blank lvl 3 or higher move (meaning she can low profile 2HS>task A.

 Tiamat:
 

@Magaki

I didn't agree with the line about air throw being his best air to air. It's usually not a realistic option. j.P or j.S is best depending on distance. Also, I think j.D RC isn't used nearly as much as DV H YRC to j.D. Nitpicky stuff I suppose.

I'm just glad I won't have to worry about getting blown up by grenade when I am hitting with a combo or DAA. Pretty sad 236K still totally whiffs vs her crouch guard though.

@Necro

Don't forget you could use the jc on 2H to do TK 236P. Takes care of low profile attacks

 NecroTheReaper:

I've tried, it loses to 5HS, or at least trades unfavorably, as I was saying. Its a game of PRS that is entirely her favor and not very hard, considering she only ever has to really use 2 of 3 options.
 

 Poultrygeist:
 

I'm going to agree with Magaki on learning a separate character, although I don't know which ones are viable picks against Elph.  Bedman is not widely played enough that people even know anti-Elph tech for him, even in Japan.  Doesn't mean drop Bedman but I don't see this going well for us.  As he said, even if we're a million times better than the Elph player (unlikely considering how widely played she is) we're still going to be working harder anyway so where's the sense in that?  I guess you have to weigh how much it means to you.  

 

Since I don't want this thread to be nothing but complaining about a bad matchup, let's add some things I thought would be common knowledge but I don't want people reading to be potentially left in the dark.

 

Task A' does indeed wiff on crouching Elph.  I don't know why it does, but it does.  You also probably don't want to use it in corner dust combos

 

I'm not sure if 1.1 changes did anything about this, but if you teledash through one of her normals she can cancel to Bridal Express to get out of punish range depending on the timing and spacing.  You might be able to chase by throwing a Task A or using 3HS but this is theory fighter on my part and I haven't tested it much at all.

 

As Magaki said sniper rifle actually does things against us.  I'm not sure if you can 2HS/3HS on reaction to hit her out of it but I don't like doing that move without Task A to cover it.

 NecroTheReaper:
 

Sniper has actually become my biggest issue in this MU. She's able to control it fast enough to make any approach very dangerous, especially now that they made her able to get a full combo off CH with meter (sounds specific, but she never doesn't have enough meter). Dash is a huge risk to try since the shot is 3f startup, so she can just wait it out. Superjump task B YRC use to do things, maybe I should save my float to screw up their AA's, but still risky. Lets not forget her ability to go into any special from sniper as well ._.

With FD cancelling on airdash, maybe you can get in slowly without getting blown up, but its just been a really sad time. Maybe you can 883>FD>2/3HS to punish a blocked sniper shot but just looking at the numbers only gives you like a 3 or 4f window to find 2HS' sweet spot.

 GKHiryu:
 

What's 1.1 max damage combo on Elphelt midscreen? If I'm a bit to the side I know that chain > 5H(1) > 2H > JC > J.S > j.236S > Land > 2P > C.S > 236H works, but it's definitely on the situational side. Anyone found an optimal route after combo into 1H midscreen? I was hoping that 1H > sjc > filler > j.236H > pickup would be possible on Elphelt, but I can't solve the riddle of the filler.

 NecroTheReaper:

I personally dont think its possible to do an air task C combo on El.  You can do an 883j.P combo, which is still really tight (but still easier than on May) but leads to full combo and good damage/carry.  

 GKHiryu:

Thanks. I'll skip researching that then.
 

 GcYoshi13:
 

cS, 5H(2), 1H, super jump, float, air dash down forward, jP, ground Task C, 2P, cS, jump forward, jP, air Task B is very practical against Elphelt.

 

The sequence after 1H should be done quickly and you want hit jP where you land in time to link the ground Task C afterwards. 

 

It's very practical.

 NecroTheReaper:

This new layout is screwing me up, but thanks for giving the combo out.  I need to actually put it to use, but converting properly on El makes me scurred lol

 GcYoshi13:

 

you have a lot of indicators whether or not 5H is going to hit twice or not. The combo I listed above should mainly be used for either punishes, or empty air dash downforward into 2K (because you'll be right next to her after an empty air dash down forward).

Otherwise, cS, 5H(1) into Task B or 2D is a very safe bet.

Also note her crouching hitbox is huge horizontally, making 2H combos pretty reliable on her. Keep track whether or not she's crouching to chain 2S into 2H (or just chain it anyways since it's a blockstring/frametrap). 5H (1) -> 2H works well on her.

[Magaki]

3rd page:

 

GKHiryu:
 

Is it even possible to land ADDF 2K without being thrown/DP'd? I stopped trying ;(

Does it work as meaty option or is it just a case of your opponents responding to your conditioning?

 

Another thing - corner confirm into 5H(1) > 2H it's possible to go with either j.236S > land > 2P > c.S or delay 236H > 2P > c.S.

Is any of these two preferable? I found 2H > 236H > 2P > c.S to work a bit more reliably, but didn't get it 10/10 yet.

 Tiamat:

It's better if you can get it so that something is covering your landing, like 214H.  It's faster if you do j.H whiff into the 2K (maybe you know that).  It also is good if your opponent likes to blitz against meaty jump attacks on wakeup. 

 NecroTheReaper:

The 236HS combo from that I'm pretty sure would do more damage, so if its consistent, go for it.  I like tk task B combos because they're nearly universal, but if there's character specific combos that work and do more damage, go for it.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Thank you for the red text addendums, I think it helps since a handful of our posts on the old threads (can't speak for the Elph one but the Bedman one yeah) is outdated or otherwise antiquated information.

[Poultrygeist]

Trying the 1.1 route on Elphelt and I'm not sure which variation to use.  The lightweight one (j.Px2 j.S) seems to not work because she falls out.  Should I be using something else or just going for 236H off the 1H instead of jumpcancel?