[Xrd] Elphelt - Combo Thread "Shotgun Wedding !" (WIP)

[CT_Warrior]

That new combo sucks. One way or another it's impossible to do consistently at least on Sol. Even in that sample video, the Sol could've teched if he mashed hard enough. I wasted a lot of time trying to get this combo down consistently. Make sure to practice with backward or forward tech, guys. It might be a solid combo on counterhit. I'm not sure how CHs work in this game.

[Sprint]

In the video the combo counter remains red. That means the combo was guaranteed. The opponent could not tech AT ALL.

Counterhits are a non-issue. Unless the RISC gauge is built up they don't really affect anything other than the properties of that first hit itself.

The video is also taken from an actual match online. People are already doing this in slightly laggy online matches and you're whining about not being able to do it in training mode. The combo doesn't suck, you do. Practice more. Nobody promised that it would be easy.

[CT_Warrior]

I hope you are right that I just suck. I'm pretty sure it would've been forward techable in the video without the counterhit. I hope I am wrong.

Did you practice with the dummy on forward tech starting outside the corner? Doesn't SG-H sometimes not wallslam despite timing j4P the way you wanted? Don't they sometimes airtech the last hit despite timing everything else correctly?

[Magaki]

You have video footages and in-depth explanation showing you that yes, it works.

If you still somehow fail to do it correctly, then it's obviously because you didn't grind it enough. Like I said and Spring mentionned, this combo is far from being easy but it's also the most rewarding both for corner carry AND damage which means that if you want to get the most out of any confirm, that's what you will plan to do.

Now, the real question would rather be, if that combo is so hard to do, would you risk using it in a tournament or not ? Personally, I will.

The choice is up to you really. Nothing wrong with deciding to go with easier combos that you won't drop rather than a hard one that might result in you getting punished for it.

[Sprint]

Powered SG-H behaves in two ways:

Close hit: Wallsplat. Combos into another one if you're close enough, otherwise SG-S > [sG-H]xN.

Far hit: Guaranteed knockdown. The opponent is high enough that you can still combo with SG-S > [sG-H]xN before they reach the floor.

The only time it drops after SG-H is if you fuck up the timing or try to move and get a normal shot instead of a powered one, which allows them to tech early from a far hit. You have to wait until Elphelt flashes orange before doing SG-S and leave your stick the hell alone to guarantee that the following SG-H is powered.

A far hit can be avoided altogether by using 5H>236H instead of 6H>236H, but it's slightly trickier to connect.

Counterhit doesn't matter at all. In training mode using a long hitconfirm (5K > cS > fS > 5H > 214K) my success rate is near 100% against most characters (see below). By success I mean the combo counter stays red/orange/whatever you want to call it. There is no tech window.

Doing it in matchplay is a slightly different matter. Discounting drops due to online lag, my muscle memory sometimes derps and I press jD instead of jH because the air combo is similar to my typical unblockable setup. I'm working on that though.

The biggest issue is against skinny hurtboxes when near the corner (esp. Ram, Zato, I-No, Venom, Millia). If they are touching the edge of the screen when jKSH hits, you can get pushed back far enough that the grenade misses. This can be abated by shortening the hitconfirm (1-2 hits into 214K), but if you're that close to the corner you may as well do an unblockable setup instead, so meh.

And then there's Faust, but that's nothing new. It works on him if you can manage to connect with the second hit of 2H.

[CT_Warrior]

What about 2S 214K starter consistency? I didn't bother with any other hitconfirm because the damage gain isn't big with 2K starter and 5K midscreen starters are rare. Do you have the dummy on forward or back tech?

The counterhit seems to make a difference with 2S starter and so does changing the dummy tech direction. I'm not convinced you can combo Sol >90% of the time off 2S starter, no CH, Sol in round start position and dummy on forward or back tech.

I remember reading somewhere that the combo counter lies and things that look like they combo might not actually combo. Please try with the above settings and prove to me how bad my execution is.

[Sprint]

You seem more interested in justifying giving up than posting anything constructive. I'm done with this conversation.

For everyone else; you can arm a pine near the end of the aforementioned combo instead of waiting until after the knockdown:

6H/5H > 236H . Powered [sG-S > 236P . SG-H]

It won't help much damage-wise due to all the scaling, but it does lead to alternative oki options. Varying the length of the combo by doing more/less followup hits lets you vary the explosion timing against the opponent's wakeup.

I haven't found a decent unblockable setup from it, but the potential is there. Powered SG-H from far enough away to get a knockdown instead of a wallsplat leads to Backdash 2P . 236S > Unblockable, but the explosion timing is slightly too late.

p.s. Other combos can lead to the same sort of thing. For example:

SG-D > 236P . Powered [sG-S . SG-H] . Powered SG-H . SG-S > 2P(toss) . Powered [sG-S > 236P . SG-H] ...etc

[CT_Warrior]

Hey what the hell. I just needed confirmation that it's just me. I considered that I just suck. I'm not justifying shit. I tried and in the few hours I practiced I concluded that using that setup it would not be at least 90% consistent no matter how much practice I'd put in. I want to be wrong. Prove it to me that I'm wrong by using the same setup on the most important starter instead of attacking my efforts. 2S starter around 70-90% of max range, no CH, Sol round start position, dummy on forward or back tech, wall splat, yrc unblockable setup, and tell me your success rate.

[OPrettyLadyO]

I mean, at near max range of 2s, bridal automatically gets blocked unless its CH right? And correct me if I'm wrong, but in the video I saw the combo in that alioune posted (dont know if it was the one posted above but), the original 2S was a CH which is why bridal connected after

[ojay]

Hey what the hell. I just needed confirmation that it's just me. I considered that I just suck. I'm not justifying shit. I tried and in the few hours I practiced I concluded that using that setup it would not be at least 90% consistent no matter how much practice I'd put in. I want to be wrong. Prove it to me that I'm wrong by using the same setup on the most important starter instead of attacking my efforts. 2S starter around 70-90% of max range, no CH, Sol round start position, dummy on forward or back tech, wall splat, yrc unblockable setup, and tell me your success rate.

I very very rarely post but your level of denial and ignorance is so advanced that I can't let it go.

First of all back tech is fastest so stop asking for forward tech, secondly it doesn't matter which tech you have it on because the combo counter will go grey if the combo drops.

Furthermore as you have been told by three people now, the combo works, stop bitching grind it out or do an easier combo.

Lol should he make a video doing the combo 10 times in a row so you can see his drop rate I don't get it.

Also Sprint... You're boom.

"the combo doesn't suck, you do"

Best thing I've read on dustloop.

Anyway CT warrior. In a weeks time when you've stopped being a child, put in some work and realised that the combo isn't actually that hard at all. Look back on your comments here and realised how much of a whining bitch you sound like.

(p.s. Sorry magaki I know you want peace and harmony lol)

[Alioune]

Hey what the hell. I just needed confirmation that it's just me. I considered that I just suck. I'm not justifying shit. I tried and in the few hours I practiced I concluded that using that setup it would not be at least 90% consistent no matter how much practice I'd put in. I want to be wrong. Prove it to me that I'm wrong by using the same setup on the most important starter instead of attacking my efforts. 2S starter around 70-90% of max range, no CH, Sol round start position, dummy on forward or back tech, wall splat, yrc unblockable setup, and tell me your success rate.

I can do the whole combo + setups from 5k>S starter. Practice makes perfect.

[CT_Warrior]

That's the thing. I haven't been proved to yet. Just try the fucking setup. With dummy set to back tech. Off 2S. On Sol. How hard is it then. You guys are the most disrespectful bunch ever. I clearly might have some misconceptions I need cleared up like combos being able to be dropped despite red beat counter unless the dummy is set to forward or back tech. SO FUCKING TRY IT FOR ME. Off the same starter.

Thanks for your input, Alioune, but I'm not talking about 5K>S starter or any other starter. It changes everything and it's not what I'm testifying to. The only only combo I'm talking about is
2S (nonCH) > 214K RC> dash 2H > 236P > cS > jS  > djK > jS > jH > j4P > 6H > 236H> delay SG-S > Powered SG-H > SG-S > 236P > SG-H > backdash > 2P > yrc > 236S > Unblockable Shot

2S starter around 70-90% of max range, no CH, Sol round start position, dummy on forward or back tech, wall splat, yrc unblockable setup, and tell me your success rate. None of you have tried it for me, and that's all I really wanted. I have done the fucking combo before. I know it works. It just seems to have a lot of random factors where it drops even when you time the combo the way you want for me. My understanding is that forward and back tech comes out 2f faster than neutral tech and that the combo counter only turns black if the combo is neutral techable. Clear up some misconceptions for me with more than just words instead of harassing me for having them. I didn't pull them out of nowhere. The information was given to me and goes against common sense, which is why you are all looking at me like I'm crazy. But what if the information wasn't wrong? Try it for me.

 

[Linear04]

if its random its just u being inconsistent lol

 

teching in this game is already established, if the combo counter is not blacked out then its not techable

 

ur being very disrespectful urself by telling other people that theyre wrong when ur the only one who seems to have such a big problem with the combo

 

counter hit should only affect the first hits hitstun so its kind of irrelevant

 

I have done the fucking combo before. I know it works.

 

 

there u go, the combo works

[CT_Warrior]

I'm not telling them they're wrong. I'm telling them to prove they're right if they're going to shit on me. I gave a very reasonable way to accomplish this. You all say that red beat is 100% untechable, but claims without evidence mean nothing. If any of you could just try the setup and tell me the results, I'll take that as evidence and be content right or wrong.

I'm not going to post anymore until someone actually tries the setup.

[Complexity]

I'm not telling them they're wrong. I'm telling them to prove they're right if they're going to shit on me. I gave a very reasonable way to accomplish this. You all say that red beat is 100% untechable, but claims without evidence mean nothing. If any of you could just try the setup and tell me the results, I'll take that as evidence and be content right or wrong.

I'm not going to post anymore until someone actually tries the setup.

 

I dunno much about Elphelt since I play a very basic one, but red beat does mean that the entire combo is untechable via any means. Record the training dummy to do whatever combo you want and make sure its a red beat combo, then replay the dummy doing the combo on you and mash in every way possible to tech out. I seen some very strange things in Xrd so far but I'm pretty sure the developers wouldn't have messed up something as fundamental as red beat combos being techable.

[Icekin]

I like how the guy making a claim without evidence is himself pointing out a claim without evidence means nothing.

Red beat means untechable. This is known. You're trying to shift the burden of proof on to others when it's up to you to prove your claim.

[Reisi]

The trick to it is to delay jK and j4P and nothing else. Don't worry about delaying 2H or cS; You want them to be high.

jH will bring them down and the delayed 4P will hit just before both of you reach the floor.

Thanks for that, I was thinking about it way too much. Really underestimated the untech time on j.HS, this helped with the consistency a lot. Even getting it every now and then on the lighter characters, it's definitely something people should work into their repertoire, the corner carry is just so useful.

[CT_Warrior]

I like how the guy making a claim without evidence is himself pointing out a claim without evidence means nothing.

Red beat means untechable. This is known. You're trying to shift the burden of proof on to others when it's up to you to prove your claim.

It's because that wasn't the only claim I was referencing. I was claiming that "2S starter around 70-90% of max range, no CH, Sol round start position, dummy on forward or back tech, wall splat, yrc unblockable setup" was impossible to do consistently and they shit on me for it. I've tried it out a lot more today and I still believe in that claim. My initial grinding was my evidence. I need THEIR evidence to prove that I suck at the 2S starter combo, the corner extend variation. I have no doubt that the combo works fine with other starters or without the corner variation. That was never my claim in the first place. I asked Sprint to try the setup. I even said please. And suddenly Sprint decides that I'm not worth talking to anymore. Fucking really? Who wouldn't get upset? No one's trying the 2S setup l mentioned yet everyone is shitting on me for it.

Everyone was right about red beat being untechable though. There was misinformation to begin with. It was impossible to get a gray beat combo with neutral tech, which means that forward/back tech isn't any "faster" when trying to mash out of a black beat combo. I was hoping someone would prove me wrong while doing the above much much earlier, but that never happened so instead I get more people to shit on me for being a hypocrite.

Thanks community.

[Magaki]

Okay, let's stop that useless arguement once and for all.

First, 2S starter ? What ? Did you even try to understand the system mechanics before saying anything ?
Obviously 2S non-CH from max range will whiff but if you're asking for the consistency, then you're talking about 2S>214K comboing. Which still means that you have no clue about how combos work in GG.

Like it is mentionned HERE, combos are completely based on HITCOUNTS and proration or RISC or anything like that ONLY affects DAMAGE.
THAT'S WHY I directly wrote in the wiki's okizeme section that combos leading to the UB loop requires a very short combo on the ground otherwise they won't work anymore.
Truth being told, yes there is hitstun decay in GG based on a timer and it has always been the case since GGXX but it has always been completely minor compared to pushback and gravity and only ever concerned one character in a specific stance due to his huge untechable time and long combos: Zappa with Raoh.

For the counter hit extending hitstun, it actually came from a silly rumor before Xrd was out that MORTAL counters extended combos and were like Fatals in BB or P4A. Obviously, that's not the case at all.

Either way, it's good that you apologized for bringing misinformations in this thread concerning red beat combos but you're supposed to check your sources BEFORE posting The only thing you're doing right now is confusing newbies and starting useless arguements.

Like it is mentionned in the RULES:

• Being a giant whiny crybaby or otherwise being insufferable about something stupid will get you banned because frankly, nobody wants to listen to you complain. Likewise goes for being thickheaded or making massive jumps to conclusions about shit.
• Don't try to make informed posts about something you are not informed about. That means, if you are a scrub, don't try and suggest strategies unless you've got someone/something serious to back them up. If you haven't even played a game, don't try to comment on it about anything. Questions are fine, spreading bad information or other stupidity is not.

And finally in the For Moderators section:

• Misinformation is a big problem lately. Stupid posts by stupid players should be corrected at minimum. Players who are repeatedly stupid can have their posts deleted or put up for a ban.

Second,

 

Thanks community.

 

Just what ? You start posting about a combo "sucking" and says that it cannot be done consistently on Sol and you expect people to treat you nicely ?
They aren't "shitting on you", they are explaining to everyone reading this forum that you're spreading misinformations and starting a useless arguement.

True, you admitted that it was your fault but then you ask people to directly tell you how consistent they are with an irrelevant starter and spread MORE misinformations ? And what are you gonna do by learning how consistent someone is with a combo ? Will it magically improve your execution ? And even if it did, what does your execution or his consistency have to do with THIS combo thread ? I don't think I need to explain why personal requests like that should be done in PM for obvious reasons.

Either way, this arguement is closed. If anyone ever bother bitching, spreading more misinformations or even joke about anything related to that, I'll simply delete your post and infract you right away.

[CT_Warrior]

I said the 2S 214K wallstick combo in the video sucks because I don't think it's possible to be consistent with it at least on Sol. Is it misinformation that the 2S 214K RC route on Sol is not consistent? That's what I've been asking people to test because it's obviously not something I can do myself. For me, SG-S rarely wallsticks. I want people to confirm that they can be consistent with it because I'm not convinced. No one has explicitly stated something like "yes I tried the 2S starter into yrc unblockable setup on Sol and got it 7/10 times and you just suck", which I'd be perfectly happy with.

Anyway it doesn't matter anymore. I'm done with Dustloop. I'm sorry for some of the misconceptions I had and I thank you guys for clearing them up. No hard feelings.


 

[Linear04]

if it works once it works all the time with the same conditions. just need to practice

[OPrettyLadyO]

As for doing the optimized combo on millia, I'm having a hard time getting her low enough after j.h; out of curiosity, what sort of changes in timing should I be doing on lighter characters like mills or may?

[Magaki]

Try to do everything as fast as possible to make sure it's not floatier than it should be. Try also to hit with 2H with the character as close to the ground as possible. Delaying slightly your dash or the 2H should do the trick.

[Charleon]

Hey guys, new on the forums! I can't seem to find the combo I came up with here in the lab yesterday, but if it is i appologize!

 

CH 6H (grounded) > 236p > early 2H so it only hits once > 5S > delayed j.k (should hit pretty late in ascendance, but jump should be done instantly) > j.s > j.h > 4p(toss, should hit opponent)

 

if your j.H whiffs you didn't delay the j.k enough

From here there are a couple of things you could do as the opponent will be pretty low in the actual boom:

 

* The regular 5S > j.SPS > dj.SPSHD > 236p gives corner oki

* Cornercarry 6H > 214k (opponent should be over you in the corner) > 5S (champagne) > 5HHHHH for a bit more damage, worse corner oki

* Cornercarry 6H > 214k (opponent should be over you in the corner) > 5S (champagne) > 236H (if opponent neutraltechs or backwardtechs you can hopefully continue shotgunpressure with charged SG-S for potential shotgunloop)

* Cornercarry 6H > 214k (opponent should be over you in the corner) > 5S (champagne) > 236p (haven't tested this one, really dangerous if opponent forwardtechs, otherwise cornerpressure)

 

Can update with actual damage when I have the time, but all comboes gives a low or high 17x damage.

 

Tested on Sol

[Killey]

Trying to learn Elphet on the side and I don't quite understand the powered shot gun loops. I thought you only get powered SG-HS if you wait until she starts aiming her shotgun but in the vids I see they're almost rapid firing it. I'm not really familiar with the properties of her SG-HS so that's where the confusion is.