[CP] Rachel Alucard Gameplay Discussion

[Stoneroth]

I've found that 5B 5CDC wallstick 5B j.C whiffs on Kokonoe.

You can make it work 5B 5C(9)DC though.

[gamester]

I can't seem to do Challenge 29. I'm just wondering. Do I have to super jump cancel near the start because I can get to the Overdrive part with normal jump cancelling but can't keep AZ in frog shock long enough to do OverDrive > 5CC. I feel like I might be timing stuff wrong keeping Azrael in the air and catching him with various attacks? Trying to 100% challenge mode with Rachel isn't easy for me I'm finding.

Btw I'm not sure if I mentioned this before. But as a pad/PS3 controller player it seems when I go into OD, I loose a wind stock. Does this happen to those who play on fightstick? I'm Curious.

[Celerity]

Btw I'm not sure if I mentioned this before. But as a pad/PS3 controller player it seems when I go into OD, I loose a wind stock. Does this happen to those who play on fightstick? I'm Curious.

This doesn't happen to me on PS2 pad, but the way I have it set up is a macro button for A+B+C and I press D at the same time to burst. Makes it easy enough to hit both buttons simultaneously.

[TheArm05]

I can't seem to do Challenge 29. I'm just wondering. Do I have to super jump cancel near the start because I can get to the Overdrive part with normal jump cancelling but can't keep AZ in frog shock long enough to do OverDrive > 5CC. I feel like I might be timing stuff wrong keeping Azrael in the air and catching him with various attacks? Trying to 100% challenge mode with Rachel isn't easy for me I'm finding.

Btw I'm not sure if I mentioned this before. But as a pad/PS3 controller player it seems when I go into OD, I loose a wind stock. Does this happen to those who play on fightstick? I'm Curious.

You don't have to super jump. I did it with a normal jump. You have to dash 5B when you land though which has pretty strict timing.

If you mistime your button presses by even the tiniest amount trying to activate OD wind will come out. I play on stick and it occasionally happens. It isn't a problem in this game usually though (unlike trying to do gold burst combos in extend) since normally OD is only used for buffing super damage and her OD usually gives more wind then you will need. Also it seems like the OD screen freeze just eats the wind.

[gamester]

Yeah. Tried inputting OD with A+B+C mapped to one button then D, it seemed more accurate. I have OD mapped to a button and tried messing around in training mode, it sometimes uses wind or it doesn't.

I don't know why but I think I was doing better using Super Jump? However I ended up getting to 5C and then 5CC wouldn't connect. I think it's that OD timing buggering me up and I couldn't use it while frog was still shocking. However I end up getting flustered and screw up my next attempts and hurt my fingers xD

Anyway, thanks for the feedback regarding OD and wind stock being used up.

Played Kokonoe today. Crazy stuff. I barely won though it was my first time playing against her. I don't know how a top Koko will play but I think it's too early to say what I managed to punish as it could turn out to be she can just find an answer to it or something else. Her scooter dash whatever comes in fast though and her back and air dashes seemed good to me (mind you I'm not the best for being able to tell these things) to get her away from trouble I tried to cause. Anyway, I won't make a match up thread about her as my match up talk is bad and it was only 3 matches. So I'm just dumping my thoughts here for now, she seems... Interesting to play against I must say. I look forward to seeing N-O Vs Rin-Hime matches one day.

[Tari]

Yeah. Tried inputting OD with A+B+C mapped to one button then D, it seemed more accurate. I have OD mapped to a button and tried messing around in training mode, it sometimes uses wind or it doesn't.

I don't know why but I think I was doing better using Super Jump? However I ended up getting to 5C and then 5CC wouldn't connect. I think it's that OD timing buggering me up and I couldn't use it while frog was still shocking. However I end up getting flustered and screw up my next attempts and hurt my fingers xD

Anyway, thanks for the feedback regarding OD and wind stock being used up.

Played Kokonoe today. Crazy stuff. I barely won though it was my first time playing against her. I don't know how a top Koko will play but I think it's too early to say what I managed to punish as it could turn out to be she can just find an answer to it or something else. Her scooter dash whatever comes in fast though and her back and air dashes seemed good to me (mind you I'm not the best for being able to tell these things) to get her away from trouble I tried to cause. Anyway, I won't make a match up thread about her as my match up talk is bad and it was only 3 matches. So I'm just dumping my thoughts here for now, she seems... Interesting to play against I must say. I look forward to seeing N-O Vs Rin-Hime matches one day.

Threw up a match-up thread for future discussion, anyway. Does our instant overhead work on her? I haven't played against Kokonoe as Rachel yet, so I can't comment on that matchup in particular, but it's definitely a pretty irritating matchup for other characters. Got to play against some of the folks who obtained her early, and geez, her blockstrings are pretty nasty, her normals have long range, and her unblockable reset setups are really quite, well, unavoidable.

[Diveman]

hmmm looking at the Rin-hime vs Dogura match, I don't think george oki is gonna be that good vs him since he can give 0 fucks with Growler field

[TheArm05]

Instant overhead j.A does work on Koko. She is really low though so you have to do it faster than you do for most characters when you do it from neutral. When I made her block 5B it seemed easier. Maybe her blocking hitbox is a tiny bit bigger or I could be just better at instant overheads off of 5B idk.

For her corner combo 5B > 5CC > 5B > j.C does whiff at normal heights (annoying) however you can do 5B > 5CC > 2B > 5B > 6A > 236B2D > 5B > stuff just fine which has always done comparable damage.

When you 5CC her into the wall off air an hit (frog hits,lightning etc) where she is a little higher you can do the normal 5B > j.C > 236A2D combo just fine.

Other than that I seem to be able to do all my midscreen combos and stuff just fine on her. If you are going for air hit 5B > j.C2D > 5B you have to make sure you hit her a little higher than normal otherwise j.C will whiff. Other than that didn't see anything specific. She actually seems to float low on air combos which makes some parts easier for me at least than on other characters.

[Tari]

hmmm looking at the Rin-hime vs Dogura match, I don't think george oki is gonna be that good vs him since he can give 0 fucks with Growler field

Normal George oki is terrible in this matchup. However, George + Cat Chair oki is hilarious.

It's an oki combo that's normally been reserved for calling out gold bursts (and occasionally DPs) in older games, but it happens to also just counterhit Azrael out of his Growler and give you a free corner combo.

Instant overhead j.A does work on Koko. She is really low though so you have to do it faster than you do for most characters when you do it from neutral. When I made her block 5B it seemed easier. Maybe her blocking hitbox is a tiny bit bigger or I could be just better at instant overheads off of 5B idk.

For her corner combo 5B > 5CC > 5B > j.C does whiff at normal heights (annoying) however you can do 5B > 5CC > 2B > 5B > 6A > 236B2D > 5B > stuff just fine which has always done comparable damage.

When you 5CC her into the wall off air an hit (frog hits,lightning etc) where she is a little higher you can do the normal 5B > j.C > 236A2D combo just fine.

Other than that I seem to be able to do all my midscreen combos and stuff just fine on her. If you are going for air hit 5B > j.C2D > 5B you have to make sure you hit her a little higher than normal otherwise j.C will whiff. Other than that didn't see anything specific. She actually seems to float low on air combos which makes some parts easier for me at least than on other characters.

I think her crouching block hitbox is indeed slightly larger. Can't say 100% since it didn't make a difference to Izayoi's moves, but I was checking stuff against her neutral crouch and blocking crouch, and her blocking crouch definitely felt taller. Could've been my imagination, though, who knows.

I did notice her aerial hitbox is fairly tiny compared to the rest of the cast, so air combos need to be more precise against her. Again, tested with Izayoi, but it matches your descriptions.

Good to know most of the stuff works on her without adjusting too much, though. She's scary enough at the moment without being uncombo-able, haha.

[TheYukianesa-01]

So I've been playing against the CPU for a little and it's seriously starting to bug me: What do her bat Lotus wathever things DO?

[Celerity]

So I've been playing against the CPU for a little and it's seriously starting to bug me: What do her bat Lotus wathever things DO?

Basically, after the bats scatter and attach themselves, 22B (the version most commonly seen) will cause 5D wind to be diverted in the direction of the opponent, while 22A increases the effect of all wind on the opponent but does not change its direction.

[TheYukianesa-01]

Basically, after the bats scatter and attach themselves, 22B (the version most commonly seen) will cause 5D wind to be diverted in the direction of the opponent, while 22A increases the effect of all wind on the opponent but does not change its direction.

And now I know

Thanks

[TheArm05]

Basically, after the bats scatter and attach themselves, 22B (the version most commonly seen) will cause 5D wind to be diverted in the direction of the opponent, while 22A increases the effect of all wind on the opponent but does not change its direction.

This isn't entirely correct

22A increases the strength of vertical (up and down) wind. So it makes for really easy j2C lvl2/3 combos and allows for things like 3C8D > 214A > 5C.

22B increases the strength of horizontal wind and also makes 5D track toward the opponent. It is mainly used for zoning since it pushes them away so hard and also pushes george/pumpkin/lobelias much farther.

[Celerity]

This isn't entirely correct

22A increases the strength of vertical (up and down) wind. So it makes for really easy j2C lvl2/3 combos and allows for things like 3C8D > 214A > 5C.

22B increases the strength of horizontal wind and also makes 5D track toward the opponent. It is mainly used for zoning since it pushes them away so hard and also pushes george/pumpkin/lobelias much farther.

No, 22A affects horizontal wind as well. It's especially notable against opponents who are airdashing, or Tao's drive attacks, but it's obvious if you just go into training mode and watch how much your wind pushes them around. It affects only the strength of the wind on the opponent, not on Rachel.

22B has no effect on horizontal wind per se, it only makes the wind move more strongly in the direction of the opponent, and only on 5D.

[Zoular]

Has Kokonoe have a hurt box similar to Litchi and Hakumen when doing air combos? Like having to add j.B?

[gamester]

If I had Kokonoe as a training dummy. I would test, but sadly I don't and I've only played against her 4 times and barely won xD

Having a bad day on BBCP atm. Just can't seem to do anything right and I'm a mess (why on my day off ;_; )

Improving is going to be very, very slow but I'll keep try.

[Tari]

Updated the wiki with a few more move descriptions, since we were lacking on them. Probably need to go through and clean it up a bit more later, since the game's actually out now. Forgot about updating everything what with all the excitement of release. Whoops.

[Rhapsody]

For a moment, I thought doing 5DB > 6A combo off of 2B > 5B > j3D > j.B > j.C starter on Kokonoe didn't work. I had issues connecting the 5CC on her until I changed my timing a bit. Fighting this character is going to take time getting used to...

[tofurr]

What am I exactly suppose to do for Challenge 25?

[sparkaura]

What am I exactly suppose to do for Challenge 25?

Do 4k damage after you break opponents guard with crush trigger.

[tofurr]

ah, ok. Thanks!

[Diveman]

Anyone here can help me out with post combo oki setups? I'm concerned about reversal stuff like Tager doing reversal backdash, 360, 720 etc thanks

[Tari]

Anyone here can help me out with post combo oki setups? I'm concerned about reversal stuff like Tager doing reversal backdash, 360, 720 etc thanks

Almost all of Rachel's good oki setups involve ending combos in 3C or BBL and putting down a frog, summoning a pumpkin, or doing both.

For example, looking at a generic corner combo, you can see how it ends with 3C: '...5CC > dash 5B > 6A > 236A > 6A > 4B > 3C(1) > 214A'

Similarly, the majority of her corner combos end with 3C > 214A/B for a knockdown into either frog or pumpkin oki. A few will end with 5CC into frog or pumpkin, but that typically happens mid-combo, rather than as an ender (ie: ...5CC > 214B > 5B > 6A...). BBL is a somewhat more common ender than 5CC, due to its hard knockdown and the amount of time it gives you to summon whatever you want, but it only occurs when a player has 50 meter and uses it towards the end of a combo. If BBL occurs early in a combo, it's often followed up with a short combo that ends in 3C knockdown instead.

It's actually quite hard for Tager to backdash Rachel's oki. George will just activate, and she can simply jump backwards to wait out any wakeup 720/Atomic Collider efforts the Tager might try. If he somehow does backdash (if George isn't around or something), the pumpkin can catch the tail end of his backdash and punish it, or Rachel can just jump in and start pressuring herself.

[Diveman]

Thanks man, I'm still getting used to Rachel's mechanics and setups but she's a lot of fun.

I was checking some vids and there was 1 option that was 3C(1) into frog, then backdash A Lobelia which covers most of Tager's options and 720 doesnt reach and gets hit after the inv ends.

[Tari]

Yeah, after putting George down, it's pretty common to use lobelias to pressure from a little distance if you aren't trying to immediately go into another round of mixup. Rachel's corner oki is pretty insane, so have fun learning it.