[CSE] Noel Vermillion Critique And Self-Improvement Thread

[LunaKage]

After dash canceling silencer C, I like to dash 6C instead. It allows you to do an extra 22B, and makes the 6C easier to connect on Rachel and Hakumen.

[Kuukuu Omoi]

i still feel like im struggling to get out these dashing cancels. i was gunna try to get the muscle memory down but it's still messing me up lol

[blackhybrid]

I'm trying to do challenge 14 for Noel but the dash into 6C after doing AT has put me at a bit of a stand still. I'm not sure how to explain what's going on with it, it's like my spacing when I do the dash is too far off from the opponent causing my J.D to not connect. I made a video showing my attempts at this, and at the end around 46 second mark is the demonstration for the challenge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzjoCw_cD10

It's kind of frustrating me. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[abadlime]

I usually super jump to get this one down. It'll allow you to close the space after the cross under.

[Litherain-XIII]

Ok the 2 problems you are having is the fact that bangs hitbox makes it funny for you to do 4D > AST so usually you kinda wanna try to delay the timing of 4D to allow bang to fall just a little more lower to the ground before you do 4D > AST otherwise if you do it regularly it tends to whiff more often meaning the timing is too fast on him so just delay it a bit on him.

the Second regarding the crossunder 6C you already know the reason. you got the main concept down for that part you just have to cut the dash shorter to do it right. Its like trying to do the 446C input faster overall before bangs starts to fall back down after AST. You can practice this situation specifically in the corner by doing 6A > 6C(2) (both hits connect and wallbounds) > 6C > 4D > AST > 44 (this notation is more like tapping 44 instead of doing 4 > 4 Holding on the last 4 longer than necessary just to make sure you run under them) > 6C. Or you can say its like tapping 4 > 4 > 6 relatively faster than the way youre trying to execute it. It takes some practice but thats they way its done to make her do the dash at a faster and shorter distance under bang or any character shorter.

Also another way to practice this is by doing 6A > 6C (first hit) > 4D > AST > 446C in the corner. This is just a quicker way to get to the specific part you're having problems at with the cross under 6c.

Another Alternative to do this (although it is somewhat tricky to do and can be hard depending on execution) you can delay the 214D (AST) input when doing 4D > AST or 4D > d.6C > AST. Make sure that the 4D hits with the opponent relatively close to the ground before doing the delay 214D input IF you are doing 4D > AST. If you are doing 4D > d.6C > AST then only delay th AST (214D) input in this scenario. If you do this right she should do AST with a slight delay and hit the opponent with it but they will still be in the corner when it hits without noel crossing under them in the process. this would allow you to do combos without the need to do 446 inputs to cross back under them to continue the combo as usual but this is more execution based imo but you welcome to try it out of you like if you wanna try a different method.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Litherain-XIII

[LunaKage]

I highly advize agains delaying Assault Through, but delaying 4D is definitely what you want to do.

[Litherain-XIII]

True delaying AST isnt the best idea in a realistic match unless you can do that consistently otherwise stick to cross under method. I only used the delay method a few times before but some were unintentional in the past. But i picked up on it and sometimes i would do it on purpose when im lazy dont feel like doing 446C and end up 4D > d.6C > delayed AST for the hell of it since i can get away with it lol

[blackhybrid]

Thanks for the help guys. It's going to take more practice but I'm kind of getting the hang of it.

[7r17r1]

edit : ah, nothing, I was looking at the wrong page x)

Edited March 2, 2013 by 7r17r1

[blackhybrid]

Hmm, was wondering if I could get some critique on a few fights from you guys.

This was in February

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCkAtKh3R4

These were like yesterday, I got bodied lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03pI7lpzTOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMQargb4MB8

[Litherain-XIII]

Hmm, was wondering if I could get some critique on a few fights from you guys.

This was in February

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCkAtKh3R4

These were like yesterday, I got bodied lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03pI7lpzTOA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMQargb4MB8

Ok a few things I noticed in the matches is that you have a hard time trying to transition your hit confirms into combos. Gotta practice on learning to turn your hit confirms into combos faster especially when you get a 3C because you keep dropping it. when you get cornered to start blocking you keep hitting drives instead when you should just block for a few seconds. drives cant save you forever especially if your opponent keeps baiting it otherwise you'll keep giving them free hit confirms and you'll lose faster than necessary. throwing out air distortions is ok every once in a while but don't do it too often as you will end up wasting meter on a DD that's whiffing or being blocked easily and get punished for it (luckily your opponents were not adamant on punishing it so you got away with it several times). Also in the last video you hit an air distortion on the first round and you had another 50 heat you should have won that round by doing Fenrir (ground distortion) after you landed on the ground from doing Thor it would have killed him. try practicing that as well in training mode. do Thor and when you land from doing Thor do Fenrir. this is a basic double distortion combination for noel but is very useful if it would help seal a round for you if its going to kill them otherwise save the heat. another thing is running up trying to do j.4D its not really a great idea you can get hit out of it fairly easily as well. try to limit the idea of doing that unless your opponent is in the corner then it serves as a decent cross up. running up and doing 2D in the last video wasn't a good idea either try not to do that anymore too its pretty free to virtually all characters and you'll get either dp out of it afterwards or punished in general. practices your combos and learning how to turn random hit confirms into combos because that's pretty important.

[blackhybrid]

Thanks for the tips man, really appreciate it. And yeah when I hit that air distortion I slapped myself for not going for Fenrir, and ended up wasting a burst, very stupid mistake, but I will learn from it. I get into a panicked state when I'm being pressured, I need to learn to stay calm.

[Litherain-XIII]

its happens man. just practice more and you'll get better over time

[FightersLegend]

Hello guys! I'm new here and I was just looking for some critique on my Noel gameplay. I've been fighting this same Rachel player for nearly 200 + matches and probably only won about 10 times. I have no idea what to do against her. Rachel just throws out so much things and seems safe all of the time it's hard to know when I can actually start to mount an offense.

[Raptor]

Welcome.

To start off, you did very well blocking the projectiles and approaching slowly. When it comes to longer ranges, try using Optic Barrel to prevent her from lobbing lobelias and summoning stuff, if it knocks down then go hog wild. One thing about Rachel is that outside of Cat chair and proper use of wind, she has below average defensive options, so what you want to do is to stay within offensive range. I noticed you like to do 6B after a few pokes from 2A. Try not to do that too often because if read, you will lose your offensive advantage. Remember you have other normals you can use and they are arguably better than Rachel's. 2A alone gives her nightmares.

[FightersLegend]

Here's another match from the same day. I think I was a little drive happy and I normally don't use it that much in a match, I don't know what I was thinking. Do you think I can get tips on this video as well please?

Thanks for your earlier input as well Raptor. I played against the same Rachel pretty recently and I did improve a little but it still wasn't enough to actually beat him.

[The K1 Effect]

So....Im new to these forums and relatively new to Dustloop in general, but I was curious if someone could notate Noels most important combos. Im pretty new to BB in general. Also, if someone could help me out with her some good blockstrings, and why theyre good, I would appreciate it

Also, what are good approaches with Noel.....Idk what the hell to use to approach with. I feel like I get out prioritized by everything in the air

Edited June 9, 2013 by The K1 Effect

[FightersLegend]

So....Im new to these forums and relatively new to Dustloop in general, but I was curious if someone could notate Noels most important combos. Im pretty new to BB in general. Also, if someone could help me out with her some good blockstrings, and why theyre good, I would appreciate it

Also, what are good approaches with Noel.....Idk what the hell to use to approach with. I feel like I get out prioritized by everything in the air

No worries. Most of those questions were already taken care of months ago. In the future, take a look at the archive before you post a question, because chances are, it's already been answered

[The K1 Effect]

So are the combos in the OP of the combo compilation thread current? and is the Haida loop something I should learn? Also, what is the best place to go to for blockstrings (I guess yall call them gatlings?) and im assuming the approaches thing is matchup dependent so Ill justcheck out the matchup threads for that. Thanks

[Litherain-XIII]

Learning the haida loop is not necessary in EX but as a self proclaim ambassador for the EX haida loop id say its definitely a useful skill to learn as it helps in areas that are a bit grey for noel imo. But tbh, the haida loop looks like its finally dead for real in CP so learning it currently isn't much of a priority so learn under your own leisure I suppose. As for blockstrings I think there is a post Luna did a while ago regarding the subject but most likely its in the archives. blockstrings are based on gatlings and frame data to help you score hit confirms. heres a link to noels frame data in case you don't know about it yet.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Noel_Vermillion_(BBCSE)

Edited June 9, 2013 by Litherain-XIII

[The K1 Effect]

thanks guys, much appreciated. Ill start studying up now lol

[LunaKage]

Noel's blockstrings are focused on frame traps and staggers.

There are a few moves I use to end blockstrings, allowing us to follow up with more pressure:

5A -1

2A +1

2B -+0

2C +1

Using each one is important. The first three moves are all used the same way, let them recover, and either microdash 5A to get back in, hit 5A or 2B without moving to bait people who are trying to poke out, or bait a reversal.

2C on the surface can be used the same way, however, most people know that this is normally the end of the blockstring, so they will be more likely to try and escape afterwards, so it's a better idea to bait escapes after a 2C by either blocking reversals, or using 3C as a frame trap or jump trap. Beware though, since 3C is punishable.

[Errol]

Something to remember.

Add 2? I think it was to those numbers if the opponent is using barrier. You can easily reset if they are using barrier.

Also, against most characters you can add 1 just because all your pokes are at least 1 frame faster. If playing against tsubaki, her 5a is 6 frames and her 2a is 7 frames. no matter what she chooses she's down 1 frame if you reset after 2b. Hazama has a 5 frame 5a and a 6 frame 2a, but his 5a doesn't hit crouchers. so if you come back in with 5a, you're up against his 2a, but if he mashes out with 5a, that's not the case. But it's a gamble for him too. etc. but against most characters you can reset with impunity, outside of reversals. You can totally go to town on Valk or Lambda.

[blackhybrid]

I'm having trouble attempting 6C after doing Spring Raid, I've seen it done before not sure how they do it. Each attempt I do I whiff the 6C. Also are there any possibilities after connecting that 6C if its possible? Thanks. :P

[Litherain-XIII]

here is a tutorial on spring raid combos made by luna. virtually most combos of it isn't worth doing unless you hit the opponent with a fatal counter then you could do something decent with it. but to your convience heres a video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLwcGbVoiIA&feature=player_detailpage