[UNIEL] Hyde Matchups Discussion

[mAceOfHearts]

Your B DP reaches Merk at the top of his flight. You can also DP him when he goes for a Dive, which is a luxury many characters don't have.

His reversal, assuming you mean 236C, is not plus on block, to my knowledge, just incredibly safe.

Definitely in his favour, but if you make good use of your DP and stay close, you should be able to handle it.

 

Oh, and 214B is pretty good at catching him trying to jump out of pressure.

[Zouf]

His 236C is -3 on block, -6 if you shield the last hit.

 

You can then punish with 2A (6f), 214C (5f) or 623C (5f) (if you're in range).

 

It's hard to do, but still doable.

 

You can react to his Dive fly with DP, as said above. Also, in corner, except with 236C, he can't really do anything against hyde's pressure. If he flies away, you failed somewhere. But even then, if he jumps out, just DP.

 

The best way to punish his 236C is :

 

okizeme j.236B, 236C will at worst trade, at best be punished.

 

DP after the flash. Yes it's also hard to do, but if you don't meaty and you are prepared for it, you should be able to handle it.

 

Merkava is strong, but Hyde has the tools to deal with him. Just don't try to 3C his flight mode, most of the time it won't work. DP DP and DP

[Tong]

Vortex can also be pretty useful against his flight.

[Hyde]

How are you all dealing with the Yuzu match up? I'be tried to watch matches to take notes and so far the only thing I see it's Yuzu running all over Hyde. How do I get in on Yuzu and stay in.

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked

[Tenryuga]

In the Yuzu MU you are only allowed to throw fireballs at full screen. If you are not fullscreen you have to be patient and  inch your way forward. This could result in the Yuzu coming in for free and running blockstrings but let it happen. Always remember you never lose anything for blocking in this game and being patient. As long as you are moving forward you are gaining GRD. I don't really know in depth stuff about the MU so I'll leave that to someone else.. 

[Hyde]

Thanks for all you guys help, I'm still trying to figure out what to do about Linne and Eltnum. Those two characters are better versions of Hyde. I Linne's case Trying to to space her out is hard due to the fact that her 2C is AMAZING, like seriously its dumb! In Eltnums case I just get caught by her and die. Frame trap after frame trap and I have no Idea when or where in her pressure I can get out. And its like everything she does is + on block.

[Zouf]

Assault above Linne 2C works fine. 

 

Linne was annoying me at first, but I don't think it's a bad matchup for Hyde.

 

41236C is key in this matchup. It both catches air and neutral kuuga. And we have many tools to make her DP whiff

[Hyde]

What about neutral. I feel like I can't stop her from jumping and the roll gets around and even punishes orbiter at certain ranges.

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked

[Zouf]

Her neutral is better.

 

Unfortunatly, nothing beats 2C unless you guess it and assault. But Linne players tend to stay at mid range to abuse it, so it's fairly easy to guess when she's doing it. Be careful to kuugas though. You can't assault above them.

 

Rolls are annoying. Dont do black orbiter at mid range, she can punish it. Faint OB with some 2A and try to punish her if she falls for it. But you need to be quick on your feat, her roll is really fast.

 

She has no great mixup game, just block until you get 100% and use 41236C to punish a Kuuga. Once you get the knockdown, don't let her go. 66C midscreen is a good okizeme as it will punish her DP. j.236B can also bait it. 3B at max range is also key. The DP will only 1 hit you and you'll be able to punish. It also wins against her 2B I believe (need to be tested), but loses against 2C.

 

And obviously, 6B and frametraps. Watch out for her counter, you should throw often too. And that's great, because our throw is pretty good.

 

Don't jump on her mindlessly. Air Kuuga will always win. 

 

This matchup is pretty straight forward, there is no great technique here. Play patient when she has initiative, block until chainshift and punish any obvious move with it. 

Also, all her special moves are negative on block except 214C (her multiple knife thingie) which is +3 (0 on shield block) and TK air kuuga / Kuuga EX which are +50 (don't mash). If she ends her string with 214A/B or any 63214 move, don't let her reset pressure, mash something (preferably 6B or 2A)

 

Last thing, unless she's above your head, don't DP. She has multiple ways to bait it (double jump and air kuuga which stops her momentum in the air). 3C can work here if she double jumps because you will have time to recover before she lands, but it will lose to air kuuga.

[Hyde]

Ok @ Zouf there was something I posted in the hyde general thread that I wanted your opinion on. Also what about Eltnum, how do we deal with her.

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked

[Tenryuga]

I'd like to know about the Carmine MU. What should Hyde do during the neutral against him? I feel like there isn't much I can do to stop his zoning or approaches.

[Hyde]

I'd like to know about the Carmine MU. What should Hyde do during the neutral against him? I feel like there isn't much I can do to stop his zoning or approaches.

You need to respect the range of his 2c cause it's fast and dumb, in neutral you wanna space a lot, be aware of his jump range cause every carmine and their mother love to jump in with j.c. When blocking you need to shield him to force to change up his set ups. Also be aware that carmine has NO reversals so decimate him on knock down. Now if he get you blocking you need to shield him and counter assault out ESPECIALLY in the corner. If carmine runs his corner game on you, you are dead. Also his over head. Which I'm not sure the command for, is only a true over head when fully charged. If he has full meter he will try at some point to do blood crystal to catch you so don't get tunnel vision when he had meter or you'll die. Don't try to zone cause you will lose that battle miserably. You can throw some well placed orbiters but don't go crazy with it.

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked

[Dusk Thanatos]

Carmine's EX command grab functions as a reversal, and can grab extended hitboxes. The Blood Rain move is also an important ghetto reversal to be aware of, since it'll get him out of situations fast as hell and is +6 on block, even though it has no actual invul.

Veil Off is his most reliable reversal option, yes, but the others exist. CS EX grab can be really brutal.

[Hyde]

Carmine's EX command grab functions as a reversal, and can grab extended hitboxes. The Blood Rain move is also an important ghetto reversal to be aware of, since it'll get him out of situations fast as hell and is +6 on block, even though it has no actual invul.

Veil Off is his most reliable reversal option, yes, but the others exist. CS EX grab can be really brutal.

This is true however on knock done I have found that 66C blows up with the exception of veil off most if not all his getto reversal options. Didnt know about blood rain being +6 since most Carmine's I fight don't use it.

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked

[Hyde]

So any of you guys got any of us for the Eltnum match up it's really starting to annoying me I can't seem to escape her pressure and her 5C has dumb range like linnes 2C and when she gets in on you it feels like her pressure never ends.

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked

[Dusk Thanatos]

Don't mash Eltnums that can stagger without a strong read. I'm probably not the biggest help in this department, since I'm not loaded with MU specifics even for my own chara, but against Elt, I typically just play the player, guess when they're gonna reset, and try to get out.

Also, you can always try to get your level 0 get out of jail card: get vorpal, then GRD thrust.

[Hyde]

How are other Hyde players dealing with the waldstein match up? I can't seem to keep him away since it one well timing assault or body splash and hes in, I have no normal that can challenge his range and one he get Hyde to the corner and plays right outside of 6B range Hyde just dies.

[Tenryuga]

For Eltnum you have to respect her stagger pressure. Shield to push her out but not too often because you really don't want to get caught by grab or shield broken by her assault J.C. 5C she will almost always whiff cancel with a 2A because 5CC can be hopped or assaulted over unless 5C is charged. Then it becomes a true block string I believe. Keep in mind that once her 2C is used in a block string she has no real big damage conversions that can be hit confirmed easily; All she really has left after 2C is used is 3C. Most Eltnum's after 2C is used will try to find a spot to reset pressure or place 22A /22B at spots they reset it to frame trap. In the neutral you really don't have to respect anything she has until she is in 2C or 5C range. Even then 2C loses to assault. She can't really answer Hyde zoning without meter for her 236C or when she is in range for gunshot or C normals. Midscreen her oki is not that impressive. You can backstep or jump out of it. She has to commit to 5A or other things to stop you from doing this. In the corner though 5A is beating all but reversals and her 66B > J.214A becomes more consistent. 

 

For Wald fight him at full screen to 3/4ths screen. From that range his options to approach you are limited and he will resort to his assault which will get stuffed by 22A, and orbiter A. When you toss orbiter A sometimes you can detonate it before it reaches him and it will hit him out of assault and allow you to convert if you are close enough. Orbiter A in general is good for this MU IMO. because when you toss it and run behind it there is not much he can do to challenge you. It's a nice way to approach him. 

[o Nereus o]

Explanation time! Sorry I took so long, I rarely on an actual computer, and doing this stuff on the phone is dreary.

 

 

Vs Seth 5/5 - even

I can't stand Seth's design, here is a game that advertises ground neutral and combat and here's Seth practically flying without risk. His set play and neutral is pretty powerful, but he is paper.

 

 

Do you still feel that it's 5/5? Seth's neutral may not be as good as you think and he can't "fly without risk". The Seth player has to calculate where and when he can throw his orbs out unless he wants to eat a fireball. Hyde controls the neutral against him, the player just has to be patient in what he does and Seth will get shut down. Seth also gets screwed when pressured because he has no meterless DP. Hyde can literally keep him in a corner and Seth can't do anything about it. Seth's pressure in terms of teleports are free because Hyde can DP him on reaction, and Seth's pressure isn't that threatening. If anything this is 5.5/4.5 Hyde's favor IMO. 

[Skye]

I stand by my statement. Seth has less risks by mere virtue of being able to air dash backwards, he rarely has to commit.

My point being is that Seth has enough air options to stall his eventual descent, making what would be a simple AA attempt turn into guessing when he decides to come down.

This includes 3c, 623x, orbiter, etc.

I've never counted out Hyde's great Oki game, but he has to catch him first, and if you're catching Seth easily, then it's more the Seth player doing something vastly wrong than you doing something right.

I still think it's even, because Seth controls neutral imo.

His Oki is also better than Hyde's.

[Hyde]

I stand by my statement. Seth has less risks by mere virtue of being able to air dash backwards, he rarely has to commit.

My point being is that Seth has enough air options to stall his eventual descent, making what would be a simple AA attempt turn into guessing when he decides to come down.

This includes 3c, 623x, orbiter, etc.

I've never counted out Hyde's great Oki game, but he has to catch him first, and if you're catching Seth easily, then it's more the Seth player doing something vastly wrong than you doing something right.

I still think it's even, because Seth controls neutral imo.

His Oki is also better than Hyde's.

I also agree with most of that statement, though I personally have not fought a Seth who uses his oki, but Seth does indeed control neutral. It's very hard for hyde to slow him down, and Seth does not have to respect the plus 1 off of rekka because his 5A is faster that anything Hyde has.

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked

[Tenryuga]

I'm with ^Hyde on this one. I would say Seth's oki is safer than Hyde's but what makes you say it is better Skye? We have safe jumps and Dark Lotus.

[Dusk Thanatos]

better mixup

[D.R.F.]

better mixup

Yep seth is 50/50 for days. However it is hard for Seth players to start their game and have to make a bunch of reads - here in neutral or midrange (although it is hard to keep a good Seth out) is where Hyde has advantage

[o Nereus o]

Yep seth is 50/50 for days. However it is hard for Seth players to start their game and have to make a bunch of reads - here in neutral or midrange (although it is hard to keep a good Seth out) is where Hyde has advantage

What 50/50? The only 50/50 i can think of on oki is a 50/50 between either his command grab or just attacking. And his command grab is too unreliable because half the time it doesn't even want to come out.