[CT] Hakumen Thread

[frcflyingjohnny]

That's almost as good as, Pick up the controller and play. Heh. But this would probably be for the people who SUCK at picking up the controller, or even standing for that matter. I don't want to see a sucky Haku everytime someone picks him.

[zer0kage]

Yo Haku-men's 2A is VERY quick, use it to stop pressure and for good links. Also after a CH 3C, do 2B, qcf+A, 6C. It doesn't work on every character, but most of them... probably. I haven't tested it in training mode vs. all the characters but in my matches it worked everytime, though sometimes the combo was grayed out... it doesn't work on every char.

Indeed Hakumen's 2A is very good. It also leaves him in +3 on block if my memory serves right.

After a CH3C, 6B 623AA falling jC land 2C sjc j2C ad j2C is possible.

[dj asakura]

Gotta start somewhere though...

[ryokoalways]

Hakumen's offense is horrid. No cross-up, one mix up with no follow-through (zantetsu doesn't count, that thing is too easy to block). Essentially while Hakumen can dish out decent to good dmg, he can't create it. All he has is frame traps, and even those are limited because he only has so many magatamas. Basically Hakumen's pressure isn't scary, and the more you waste on pressuring equal less you can use for dmg. If anything, I'd say unless you can IB consistently, it would be a tall order to play an effective hakumen. The amount of meter gain via IB is a huge difference.

[dejeuner]

Hakumen's offense is horrid. No cross-up, one mix up with no follow-through (zantetsu doesn't count, that thing is too easy to block). Essentially while Hakumen can dish out decent to good dmg, he can't create it.

All he has is frame traps, and even those are limited because he only has so many magatamas. Basically Hakumen's pressure isn't scary, and the more you waste on pressuring equal less you can use for dmg.

If anything, I'd say unless you can IB consistently, it would be a tall order to play an effective hakumen. The amount of meter gain via IB is a huge difference.

Hey, replace "magatama" with "coins" and we've got Johnny!

[4r5]

Hakumen's pressure is more of the spacing variety, rather then the rushdown. It's like Street Fighter 2. You just want to stand at that awkward space where you can easily attack them and they could attack you if they just take that one little tiny step forward. But when they take that step is when you hit C as hard as you can, then hurt them good.

And then there's that set of characters who don't give a fuck about Street FIghter 2, this is MAHVEL BAYBEE!

[frcflyingjohnny]

You can rush with a 623+A and this is because... you have many options.

-you can grab when you rush towards your enemy, orrr

-you can add more 2A or 2B to crush a person's reversal input, after this you could add a quick 214+B when you confirm a hit, orrr (REPEAT)

-you can rapidly press A again to do Johnny's running 6P and gain super air juggle(combo). This move beats a LOT of moves and that's all I know. I think the only thing it doesn't beat is Jin/Ragna uppercuts, and supers.

[zer0kage]

5C blocked to 623A is really tight. However the mixup you suggested is still quite a guessing game but it is in Hakumen's favour. You can do one more 623A to cover the gap further especially if they op to backdash against 623A->throw or 2A. I might be doing a Hakumen video project to cover some tactics but I do want to see what has been covered already in the special DVD guide.

[dj asakura]

Hakumen > I don't really have a strong understanding how best to use him (combo and approach wise) but he's amazing and it seems like not a lot of people online know how to fight him. It's great.

[4r5]

Canceling into 623A is hardly a rushdown. In fact, C>623A is still punishable, even if they barrier. Yeah, you can counter their punish by canceling into the Upper, but that's just a risky gimmick, not a stable tool. And I'd rather focus on solid play, not risky gimmicks.

We're not playing AC Johnny anymore. We don't have to rely on gimmicks, while pretending we're psychic.

Now what 623A is, is a good spacing tool. Like when you want to maintain your positioning if they barrier your C. Or advance under a fireball. And of course, counter attacking underneath laggy moves. About the only time 623A becomes a rushdown tool worth the stars is when they are about to be guardcrushed.

I don't really have a strong understanding how best to use him

Spacing is paramount. Worry about that first. The rest will come about on their own. (Especially combos. You can just rub a few out on your own, in training mode) Hakumen is a real basic character, nothing fancy. Just the fundamentals: spacing, reactions, and anticipation.

Except when you're fighting the big zoners, then you gotta be hella clutch.

[dj asakura]

Spacing is paramount. Worry about that first. The rest will come about on their own. (Especially combos. You can just rub a few out on your own, in training mode) Hakumen is a real basic character, nothing fancy. Just the fundamentals: spacing, reactions, and anticipation.

Except when you're fighting the big zoners, then you gotta be hella clutch.

I've actually really begun to notice how important and useful spacing is, it's amazing how at easy it is to space in the lower levels.

But I really like how he plays, he may be pretty basic he's fun and I feel like in the right hands, he's amazing.

And yea, I fought a V-13 who sort of knew what they were doing and I had to do some stupid shit to get close enough.

Btw, the rub one out in training part me lol

[reaVer]

Canceling into 623A is hardly a rushdown. In fact, C>623A is still punishable, even if they barrier. Yeah, you can counter their punish by canceling into the Upper, but that's just a risky gimmick, not a stable tool. And I'd rather focus on solid play, not risky gimmicks.

You know that the point behind 623A is that it's a counter mixup to 236A right? So it's just a straight out 50:50 mixup you get with those moves, I can't really tell what more you'd want:P

[JackG]

I moved 2 posts from the vid discussion thread here since they didn't really pertain to videos. I'm gonna work on a beginner and more indepth guide tomorrow. Lots of work to do with the game just coming out. About the whole 623AA business... You can use it as a pressure/counterhit bait, but unless they-re in the air it's not really a great idea. It only has upper body invuln, so most characters good midrage attacks (like Nu's 5d, Rachel's 6b, etc) will still beat it out of the startup. Not only that, but you're spending 2 stars on a guess that really isn't very safe to begin with. I mostly just use it during combos and rarely to get in if I have an excess of stars and the opportunity looks right.

[Kumlekar]

I've actually really begun to notice how important and useful spacing is, it's amazing how at easy it is to space in the lower levels.

But I really like how he plays, he may be pretty basic he's fun and I feel like in the right hands, he's amazing.

And yea, I fought a V-13 who sort of knew what they were doing and I had to do some stupid shit to get close enough.

Btw, the rub one out in training part me lol

I haven't seen a single v-13 player online yet (well other than the two times I used her). I love haku because of how simple his inputs are, so I can concentrate of screwing the opponent over and not fighting with my controller. (god i need to get a stick...)

I'm wondering if we can get some more matchup specific threads? I'd like to see some stuff of haku vs. jin because of how common jin players are. I need a better way of punishing his 236D. Currently I'm just blocking and following with 3C. I can never seem to time my counters right to hit it for some reason.

[ryokoalways]

Using two magatamas to zone is ridiculous. If that's your strategy, you basically have to stand there and take it for the first 5-10 seconds of the match. Having basically no offensive capability until you have actually been attacked is really lame. My fix for hakumen? Give him 16 magatamas (and an equal meter gain buff of course) while costs remain the same. Hells yes :O (No I don't really think this will fix hakumen because the real problems remain, but this would keep him unique and give him a significant buff.)

[ryokoalways]

err if he uses 236d just either block you (like you are), or catch it. And if he does it from anywhere that's not point blank, it's just a waste of 25% meter. Just keep in mind 6d and 2d are 1 frame start up, while 5d is longer (5? I can't remember).

[dj asakura]

I think my only losses online at this point are to Jin's and it's really annoying. They all use the same tactic so far. 41236C -> mash B (or something like that, I only used Jin once) And they just do it the whole match. Ugh. I feel like this isn't a very viable combo, but it does a lot of damage. 236A -> 314B -> 41236C (uses 6 megatama) I feel like at higher levels, it won't be useful at all without some sort of entry attack

[ryokoalways]

I think my only losses online at this point are to Jin's and it's really annoying. They all use the same tactic so far.

41236C -> mash B (or something like that, I only used Jin once)

And they just do it the whole match. Ugh.

I feel like this isn't a very viable combo, but it does a lot of damage.

236A -> 314B -> 41236C (uses 6 megatama)

I feel like at higher levels, it won't be useful at all without some sort of entry attack

I have no idea what that first one is. That's not a move for anyone. If it's the c spam, just 6c and chop his head off.

Try to learn how to push Jin into a corner (Hakumen REALLY needs corners), and learn the j2c loop.

That combo you listed, I believe it's 214B, and that would cost 7 magatamas for very little damage I think. The variation you are looking for would probably be:

hit confirm anything > 214b > slightly delayed 236a > 6c > super (7 magatamas)

Only use the super if you are going for the kill, otherwise save magatams for more constructive purposes (like pursuing your opponent and follow up with another combo).

[dj asakura]

I have no idea what that first one is. That's not a move for anyone. If it's the c spam, just 6c and chop his head off.

Try to learn how to push Jin into a corner (Hakumen REALLY needs corners), and learn the j2c loop.

That combo you listed, I believe it's 214B, and that would cost 7 magatamas for very little damage I think. The variation you are looking for would probably be:

hit confirm anything > 214b > slightly delayed 236a > 6c > super (7 magatamas)

Only use the super if you are going for the kill, otherwise save magatams for more constructive purposes (like pursuing your opponent and follow up with another combo).

Yea, I think it's the C spam, sorry, I'm still working on notation stuff :/

And yea, I'm seeing how important walls are, and yea, I'll learn the j2c loop.

Thanks for the help on this stuff, sorry being pretty...well, unaware of what everything is, this is the first fighting game I'm taking really seriously

[ryokoalways]

Sure thing, I haven't been here for nearly a year myself. I stopped playing GG when BB was announced. If things haven't changed, most of the people on the board are fairly helpful. Also as a side note, I do not main Hakumen, so do take a grain of salt with my posts (I will try to note the parts that I am not 100% sure). Ask one of the main Hakumens if necessary, they are definitely better versed in how he plays than I am. Enjoy.

[Hades777]

Well I maining Haku at the moment. I like his style of laying in wait then slashing off 50% of someone's life in one combo. But goddamn is it hard to beat good rushdown with this guy, any tips?

[ryokoalways]

I don't really think Hakumen has trouble with rush down because you can catch (even the best players has several specific block strings that can be noted) and you do have a dp, tk j214b. Your 2a isn't a bad poke either because it has range. Usually 2a into 214b, and that regular combo is a good way to get the dude off you and begin your offensive (or whatever there is of it). Obviously never use c moves in close range or even mid range (you have to pre-empted them so you need distance). I don't know too much about b moves though. I don't see much use for 5b other than one specific combo, not sure abotu 2b, and 6b I only see in one knockdown situation. Basically, I think the only things you should use are 2a, j214b, and catch moves.

[qwerty]

I think my only losses online at this point are to Jin's and it's really annoying. They all use the same tactic so far.

41236C -> mash B (or something like that, I only used Jin once)

And they just do it the whole match. Ugh.

I feel like this isn't a very viable combo, but it does a lot of damage.

236A -> 314B -> 41236C (uses 6 megatama)

I feel like at higher levels, it won't be useful at all without some sort of entry attack

a few things to help against jin:

- hit up training mode and learn the timing for 5D'ing his icecars, since you can counter all of them on reaction. once you land the 5D, if you're not near the corner just do 6C (into super if you have meter) and if you're near the corner even a basic air combo will do (j.C j.214B dj.C) if you don't have j.2C loop down yet.

- jin players (especially online, lol) love to do wakeup throws, so keep B+C ready anytime you wake up or your opponent wakes up near you.

- a better combo than what you posted (that works on everyone!) is 5C -> zantetsu -> 5C (replace with 6B for carl, noel and nu) -> guren -> 6C. only four stars and it does anywhere from ~50-80% depending on whether your first 5C was a ch, if your opponent already bursted, etc.

[ryokoalways]

I'd suggest baiting the throw rather than breaking it. Why give away your advantage if you know a throw is coming, jump up and jc him then 5c into 623aa or renka.

[qwerty]

it's all about how much risk you're willing to take for how much reward. in an actual match in a tournament? i'd contemplate baiting the throw. but on xbox live, i'd rather just be safe and break the throws on reaction (since i'm gonna win most of the time anyways ).