[CS1] Hakumen Information Thread

[BladeOfJustice7]

In ct jd/3c=shit more or less, not COMPLETELY useless but one has to question state of mind by the creators when thinking of hakumens attacks =\... Off a CH 3c you can go into 2c>j2c>etc. but other than that its not cancelable with ANYTHING >_<. Hopefully cs's 3c improves in some aspect =/

[qwerty]

in ct you can 6B guren 6C off of ch 3C

[BladeOfJustice7]

in ct you can 6B guren 6C off of ch 3C

Brain=

[Sophisticat]

I prefer 3c CH -> 2c -> j.2c -> j.2c because it pushes into the corner for no meter.

[MisoSowee]

Me likes 3c CH - 3c for the oki :3

[BladeOfJustice7]

Me likes 3c CH - 3c for the oki :3

As much as I love discussing our preferences, we need to keep this cs as much as possible, JackG how do you have access to cs? Just curious is all

[ryokoalways]

Considering 3C has much more favorable recovery as compared to before, with (supposedly) increased range, it's a pretty safe maximum range poke for 1.6k(?) dmg. At the very least everytime you land 3C you can 3C again, other options are also available if you feel like burning meter. I think most of hakumen's C moves are no longer punishable unless done point blank (in which case, you are doing it wrong) or IB but within a certain range (character pending). That just means you can be more liberal with C moves, that doesn't mean spam that shit.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I'm pretty sure you can use the gimmick of blocked 6c>yukikaze still. IMO only works once in a life time and you have to be ABSOLUTELY sure they will attack you, you can also use mugen but that's also risky I've rarely done either and I'm sure they can still be used in cs.

[ryokoalways]

Something to keep in mind when doing combos: The recovery of 5C is low enough where if a high tip 5C hits and is within decent range, follow-up 2C/5C (due to the faster startup) will link. This is the basis for most combos where you have control of target's height, which will probably be off jD/hotaru/enma>contolled j2C mainly, or perhaps a well adjusted jC>gurren.

[rtl42]

what do you mean by "if a high tip 5C hits"? if you hit an aerial opponent with the top of 5C's hitbox?

[ryokoalways]

That's correct. With Hotaru, if you land the hit, and just land instead of jump cancel, you have time to position yourself closer and try to land 5C with the top tip of the hitbox. Then you are supposedly able to 5C/2C after the first 5C recovery and it should link. With jD, same idea, position yourself after jD launch them into the air. With enma>j2C it's more tricky because distance control is more difficult. You should know if it's possible by the time you land enma. If it's either not near point blank, or if there are too many preceding hits (I think over 4 hits?), then they can probably tech during the combo. This one is more difficult (on paper at least) because you are not trying to do j2C at the latest moment, but rather at a time where you can land 5C at either near highest point or the latest possible time (which will net you the highest possible point).

[TyrantShark]

Any news on whether you can jump cancel after cutting a projectile?

[ryokoalways]

rtl42 has been doing testing for questions I had regarding Hakumen. Someone can take the info and put it in the first post. Please thank rtl42 for taking the time to figure these things out in Match-play. -Hakumen does indeed have hop-jump cancel. However, it was a little different from what I imagined. Instead of being a defensive/bait tool, it's more of an approach/combo tool. You are only able to cancel into jump at the start of your hop, but it provides additional momentum, which is probably what makes the double j2A>jC combos work. -rtl42 believes 6A does not have invincibility of any sort. -6B(1) cannot cancel link into anything. This will purely be a frametrap/conditioning/guard crush tool. Considering it's good start-up (I think), it's turned out to be a fairly decent move. The timing should work well with slightly delayed renka. -4C is slightly shorter than the hitbox of the sword. There is a minor section of the tip that does not hit the enemy. -I was correct that 2A>6A is a gatling, but rtl42 also said 5A>6A is a gatling. These should be decent frame traps. I'll post other stuff once they are available. Since rtl42 is mainly doing match-play, it's best not to ask to test combos. I think finding those on forums and then just have people in US that have the arcade try it out would be best.

[MadRhetoric]

When you say 6A has no invincibility at all does that mean no throw invuln as well?

[ryokoalways]

Throw invulnerability was not tested. I would assume no. Someone can try though. And my friend gave me a hakumen corner combo off hotaru. I believe this should be considered the default combo (potentially, I will explain): Hotaru(Fatal)>5C>5C>renka(1)>enma>J2C>5C>2C>J2A>J2C>2C>J2A>J2A>JC for 6.8k dmg, and a little over 2 magatama recovery I believe. This looks to me like it should work anywhere within 1/5 distance away from the corner. While the combo requires a counter hit, it's not really a problem because if you are using hotaru, it's assumed you are either baiting/beating something outright, so you should get a counter anyways. The combo requires 6 magatamas, but I believe that the renka can be removed from the combo for magatama conservation. Considering its place in the combo, I don't believe renka would add more than 4-600 dmg tops. With that in mind, the combo becomes much more likely to happen. I'm not sure of this though, because the only reason I can think of for renka being there is that the float property may provide the needed height for the 5C>2C to work. This needs to be tested. Also to note, it may be possible to use gurren at the end of the combo for knockdown, or perhaps another jump jC for setting up positioning/a little more damage, but those are yet to be confirmed. Edit: Tyrantshark, for all C moves outside of 2C, you cannot jump cancel simply because you can't jump cancel to begin with. Even in the air, jC/j2C/j2A are all not jump cancellable, so whether you cut something or not has no baring as you will have to wait till recovery of the move is over anyways. However, 2C can be tested to see whether you can jump cancel after cutting a projectile. I can't think of an application for it, but an addition can't hurt.

[MisoSowee]

Oh crap haku is a beast now. Those combos all look really odd though since I haven't seen any double 5c in videos. Is it possible it'd be character specific? (since it requries being hit by the "tip" of 5c?) but 6.8k.... daaang. And would it work off of tsubaki non-CH? I would hope so, maybe you just have to take out one of those first 5c's? CS can't come any sooner Dx

[Brotrr]

The yellow Hakumen in the latest CS vids (his name starts with G IIRC) always tries to land the second 5C but usually fails, so this combo might be a bit hard to pull off consistently. Could you get rid of the second 5C or do you absolutely need it for renka/enma to hit?

[ryokoalways]

I don't think he is trying to land that combo. I think he is using 5C as a meaty, which I don't agree with. He definitely wasn't trying to land 5C at/near the highest point.

[MadRhetoric]

how much more hit-stun does fatal add? Isn't it 2 frames on every attack? I'm just wondering how much damage you could pull off if you did not get the fatal.

[BladeOfJustice7]

How is 5c as an AA? I know I've read that it doesn't suck anymore as one but how effective is it? In my eyes litchi, who has always been fairly hard to AA since she can fire her staff diagonally now if you time our extremely fast 5c it SHOULD stop her staff AND create a void to protect you from damage.

[SimpleKiss]

Wow Ryo, good shit. That's insane stuff, especially considering just about everyone else had their damage nerfed. Those combos sound like the require some timing though.

[Spark]

When you say 6A has no invincibility at all does that mean no throw invuln as well?

I've been thrown out of 6A before, so if it does have throw invincibility it doesn't cover the first active frame.

Also anyone know how to combo off the new back throw? You can't seem to special cancel it anymore and it seems to have a lot more recovery, so even if I have my back to the corner I can't 5B after it.

I'm also having trouble with comboing after CH 3C. In CT it just dropped them in front of you, so you can easily do 6B or 2C, but now it sends them back further so I can't get any attacks to reach.

My shipment of CS just came in, so if anyone has questions or stuff they want me to try out just ask.

Oh 6B is punishable with Hazama's 2A on IB, so it's at least -5 on IB maybe? 41236C is punishable with Hazama's kick super on IB, so it now has longer recovery or Hazama's kick super has less than 7 frames start up.

[ryokoalways]

3C can be comboed from regardless of whether it was counter or not. Distance pending another 3C or 2B will both work. I don't know if 5C/2C will. I have yet to see a combo off back throw. 6B is slightly negative on block, but people don't punish it because you can D cancel. If they mash after blocking just stick out 5D or something (or 2D if they are sticking out a low). kick super has very quick start-up, and you shouldn't have shippu blocked under any circumstance anyways. madthetoric, I think the j2C>5C>2C wouldn't work without Fatal, so damage may fall to 4.8kish? bladeofjustice, 5C won't work as AA just because of its decreased hitbox. I'm sure you can use it as an AA, but it won't be a good one.

[Spark]

41236C is Zantetsu. j2C > 5C > 2C does work without Fatal counter. At least off hotaru.

[ryokoalways]

apologies, I read the inputs incorrectly. Also, it's not whether j2C>5C>2C work off hotaru, it's does it work as the second set of relaunch in that specific combo. Edit: actually, regarding that combo, it's not only the above section that's in question. Once you get that down, you still have a third relaunch that you have to work in. I don't think 3 relaunches are possible without fatal, but you can certainly try. If 3 relaunches doesn't work off regular hit, you can always remove the third relaunch and go straight into j2A/jC spam.