[P4AU] Margaret Gameplay Discussion

[OmnixTSC]

So apparently, I was wrong about the guardpoint on 5D and 2D. It seems like it actually has full guarpoint until either move's first active frame. Can anyone else test this to confirm it?

[Buttface]

They can eat a full j.C from Marie, so they definitely have full guardpoint until first active frame

[Speakeasy]

So has it been decided that Margaret is low-tier?

Also, Liz can react to 236C (spear) with IK, so be careful about that if she's up a round and has it stocked.

[gamewizard108]

would say shes mid at best, alot of her normals have such a longggggggggggg recovery on whiff(5A,5C,2C,2B,etc). i thought her 5A would be as good as mitsurus when i first saw pics of it, because of its range, but its actually very risky to throw out and not worth it most times. it really sucks that you can only cancel the 5A on the first and fifth hit only.

[uberdeluxe]

I think she's at the very least above average. C javelin is an insanely good projectile, j.C, j.2C, j.D, and 5C are all really solid moves that are quite fast for how much space they cover. I think those moves on their own give her a strong neutral game. Her 2B is reasonable, not super good but still quite strong. Since they have to respect so many of your options, you can go in with surprise 5Bs and get pressure when they don't expect it. On top of all that, she has good mixups tools. 2A, Gods hand, sweep and 5D are all pretty fast moves that let you mix people up off even a max range blocked 5C.

 

Her defense isn't as strong as some characters since she has no fast poke and her DP is a grab, but it's not like her defense is super atrocious or anything. But it's still first week so who knows.

[Zouf]

(Back to corner) CH B+D > j2C > dj.C > j.214AB > 214A > 214214A [3694 damage, 75 meter]

 

Midscreen, you need to RC the first hit of j.214AB, then dash 214A. Could be useful to end a match, otherwise it's not worth it :3

[Buttface]

sweep destroys all of Naoto's "discovered" ground traps

[Lord Knight]

So has it been decided that Margaret is low-tier?

Also, Liz can react to 236C (spear) with IK, so be careful about that if she's up a round and has it stocked.

 

no

[Mikros]

Haven't seen anyone mentioning it yet, but you can alter j.22C reach if you backturn, same thing Liz had in P4A1 with j.D. Yoshitsune will fly out in an arc roughly one char length further.

[Koichi>All]

lol there are people who really think this character is low tier?
talk about being clueless.

[So-Called-Chaos]

So I was playing a friend of mine and he made a safe-ish way for mediarahan, he did jump back dash into phanta rhei into mediarahan, don't know if it's totally safe but still nice to know, if you can combo into C phanta rhei, you have enough time to do C mediarahan, Thanks Rawkid360!

[So-Called-Chaos]

FINALLY found a Phanta Rhei into God's Hand combo

 

5B>5A>2A>5B>(236236C)>(214214C)>2B>J.C>J.2C>jump cancel>J.C>J.2C>214A.

 

does 3390, which is ok I think, could be optimized more.

[Zouf]

214B > 214214CD is safe afaik

[Vvvv]

people probably figured this out by now but i don't see it in the thread sooo

margaret can safejump j.A or j.C from 214B midscreen. so almost any combination of 5A, 5B, 5C > 214B will work.

5A > 5B > 5C > 214B
5B > 2B > 5C > 214B
5B > 5A > 5C > 214B
5C > 5B > 5A > 5B > 214B

it'll pretty much never work with a 2A starter though since they airtech anything other than like crouching 2A > 214B and jumpin starters you need to just scratch off some of your combo

[ThatHiroGuy]

j.A seems like a poor option, and wouldn't it be hard to actually do the proper input for safe-jumping j.C? I'm just saying, because the way I was taught to safe-jump makes me think you'd just get j.2C instead of j.C.

[Vvvv]

only listed j.A because it worked, wouldn't necessarily use it over j.C and no it wouldn't. you can j.C then hold 1 and you'll block DP/wakeup supers, but if you can blow it up you should try! it's possible my wakeup buttons timings are just decent at best.

[Loli Bacon]

j.C [1] is a safe jump after 214B and j.214B enders. You can do j.C safe jump or you can do j.C > j.D to safe jump a second DP attempt. If you do j.C > j.D, you get hit. Anyone found ways to make people not roll/jump her strings?

[ThatHiroGuy]

Blockstring> 5B>5A>5B>5C>2C>Hop cancel (not sure the input xD)>j.2C. Hold down-back while doing 2C.

 

What I found is, your opponent can only hit Yoshitsune. No punish for Marg. Dp or otherwise, it's just flat out not smart for them to do. If they dash through your 2C, Margaret will not hop cancel, because she failed to hit you with Yoshitsune. You'll block whatever they throw at you, and matter of fact, you should be able to counterhit them for dashing through 2C. At the very least, you should be able to grab them. 

 

Should they choose to block 2C, but they think you're going for the command grab next, the hop cancel into j.2C will hit them, regardless of the direction they jump. 

[AchedSphinx]

j.C [1] is a safe jump after 214B and j.214B enders. You can do j.C safe jump or you can do j.C > j.D to safe jump a second DP attempt. If you do j.C > j.D, you get hit. Anyone found ways to make people not roll/jump her strings?

236D seems effective. Always catches me when I try to jump. Not sure about roll though.

[Makura]

Backdash. What I've been doing is stuff 2c 236D. Pretty sure Backdash gets out of that. Also gets out of sweep. Does hop j.2c beat backdash? 236C? Does 5c 2c throw beat rolls with a CH?

[ThatHiroGuy]

Backdash. What I've been doing is stuff 2c 236D. Pretty sure Backdash gets out of that. Also gets out of sweep. Does hop j.2c beat backdash? 236C? Does 5c 2c throw beat rolls with a CH?

  

j.C [1] is a safe jump after 214B and j.214B enders. You can do j.C safe jump or you can do j.C > j.D to safe jump a second DP attempt. If you do j.C > j.D, you get hit. Anyone found ways to make people not roll/jump her strings?

Basically the post I already made. Check it out. You can make them respect, hop is your best option.

[AchedSphinx]

Backdash. What I've been doing is stuff 2c 236D. Pretty sure Backdash gets out of that. Also gets out of sweep. Does hop j.2c beat backdash? 236C? Does 5c 2c throw beat rolls with a CH?

2C will whiff rolls. Margaret is going to need some tech options for rolls. They seem pretty effective considering her 5D can be rolled through. Backdash beats nearly everything. If the backdash escapes the sphere part of 236D, then you'll get out free. Backdash probably doesn't beat j.2C because it makes you airborne and you can't block for a certain amount of frames.

 

236C might beat a backdash, though I suppose it depends on the character since they all have different recovery. Though using 236C to punish backdash is risky. 5C I'm not sure about. It probably will whiff, but Margaret will recover in time to block.

[ThatHiroGuy]

2C will whiff rolls. Margaret is going to need some tech options for rolls. They seem pretty effective considering her 5D can be rolled through. Backdash beats nearly everything. If the backdash escapes the sphere part of 236D, then you'll get out free. Backdash probably doesn't beat j.2C because it makes you airborne and you can't block for a certain amount of frames.

 

236C might beat a backdash, though I suppose it depends on the character since they all have different recovery. Though using 236C to punish backdash is risky. 5C I'm not sure about. It probably will whiff, but Margaret will recover in time to block.

 

Why does nobody listen to me ;A;...

[Makura]

2c 236c will probably lose to rolls. Don't know how punishable it is though. Seems Margaret has 1 chance at mixup and if she guesses wrong she's back at neutral or worse.

[Makura]

Why does nobody listen to me ;A;...

Because hop j.2c loses to rolls hard, most likely.