[CS1] Iron Tager Complete Guide

[Henaki]

Makoto doesn't get a meaty either. You're right, there are differences, but my point was that every option where you get to hit them from the advantageous mixup can lead back into the same advantageous mixup. Very few characters have this, anywhere.

Also IIRC something at one point said Gadget is +3.

VOOOOOOORTEEEEEEEEEEEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXes

sf4

[ShinsoBEAM]

For the people worried about Gadget mixup, compare it to 3s Makoto. A command grab leads to a 33/33/33 attack/block/jump situation, with:

Attack - Makoto must block or parry. Tager can 360a or collider most stuff! DPs must be blocked for both.

Block - command grab back into mixup, just like Makoto.

Jump - collider back into mixup, even better than Makoto.

And she wins whole rounds just off of that.

Thats cause like tager she hit you 1-2 times and that was p. much match.

[A.X.I.S.]

For the people worried about Gadget mixup, compare it to 3s Makoto. A command grab leads to a 33/33/33 attack/block/jump situation, with:

Attack - Makoto must block or parry. Tager can 360a or collider most stuff! DPs must be blocked for both.

Block - command grab back into mixup, just like Makoto.

Jump - collider back into mixup, even better than Makoto.

And she wins whole rounds just off of that.

so tager just went into makoto mode?

anyways it seems dispite the changes tager has he will still have a very difficult time with the cast.

this is my impression on the stuff in match up vids, and anything else is just me worrying.

vs , this match is in haku's favor, jumping in is no longer a option, haku's j.c and 2C will keep us out of range, and 4C is safe even on IB, best we can do is back him into a wall or punish him for trying to get in, which by the time he does will have some meter and will begin to have haku-sex with us. feels like we can win but the work is much harder now.

to the point:

4C and J.C is the new stay away pedo moves.

can stall us for meter and punish us easily.

still hurts like fuck.

good points :

we can just outright ruin his life up close with gadget mix-ups.

he's still victim to 360's.

vs , said it once i'll say it again, she can't 5D>44 on us anymore but she can still keep us back, looks like in a vid nu tried to use 2C but got hit anyways, did they slow it down that much or nu did it too late? getting in will still be a hassle but when we get her then we are sure to tilt things in our favor, with our improved speed and new combo opportunitees, mix up is good now plus if she barrier blocks then its like saying 720C for her, sadly she can keep us out with her new moves, i'm praying that if she doesn't have meter then its punishable on block or at least IB, thank god for that damage nerf too, makes it less one sided. to the point:

zone zone zone!

ways to push us back if we are too comfortable.

good points :

faster movement+deadly oki game makes it easy to pile on damage easily.

stronger magnetism prevents escape from pressure.

vs , this is a bad situation for us, you can't punish berial edge easily so it becomes a mad useful pressure tool IMO, his 5C is faster meaning poke advantage and his damage can do 3k+ easily, gonna be a tough one for us, i'm assuming IB>360A will punish his blockstrings if he's not going into 6D, but to go straight to the point:

faster long reaching pokes.

good damage off of said pokes.

new move=pain in the ass surprise attack.

vs , same J.C as haku so getting close is a problem, it looks like we can give jin a bit of trouble now but then again that jin didn't look to good in the vids. i need more info before i can go on with this.

i wanna talk about this, i would link threads related here if its ok with Bj too.

[Henaki]

so what arcade do you go to that you suddenly know all these matchups?

[DoomieJ]

theory fighting love.<3 UP needs BBCS.

[Henaki]

theory fighting love.<3

UP needs BBCS.

if up never reopens, yall should carpool up to ny and play bb/gg for a weekend over new years break.

[HZMN]

theory fighting love.<3

UP needs BBCS.

Most of it is just Theory Fighting for those of us that don't have arcades. Just as long as the videos keep coming in, we should be able to keep up.

But yea, most of us are still relying heavily on just videos though, including me. So I'll keep my mouth shut for awhile on CS till I get solid frame data or throw out a theory to only have it shot down by someone who actually has an arcade lol

[ShinsoBEAM]

Theory fighter only works until your opponent goes ohh lol but I could just do X then you go Q_Q and run back to your blackboard.

[Brother Mojo]

Theory fighter only works until your opponent goes ohh lol but I could just do X then you go Q_Q and run back to your blackboard.

actually, I go "of course, but I'd actually expect you to do X and correspondingly I'd Y. Yomi layer two, baby." and put on my shades.

[Darlos9D]

"oh but I could just do X" is always great in theory but tends to ignore the fact that such things typically require some foresight which you might not always have. Now if this were some kind of RPG where you could pause everything and input commands, that'd be a different story. That'd be a funny game...

[ShinsoBEAM]

"oh but I could just do X" is always great in theory but tends to ignore the fact that such things typically require some foresight which you might not always have.

Now if this were some kind of RPG where you could pause everything and input commands, that'd be a different story. That'd be a funny game...

Ohh I know the point was that for every theory their is a counter theory, that doesn't invalidate the first theory just makes it no longer as good as it seemed to be.

"Only a great fool could reach for what he was given...I am not a great fool so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must of known I was not a great fool you would of counted on it so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me" :dizzy:

Sorry this just reminded me of an awesome scene from the princess bride http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU this one in case you don't know what im talking about.

[Honnou]

i feel like GGXX#R just came out and no one has swap magic.

[bjholmes2]

I feel like this thread is off-topic, no thanks to Mr. Sicilian over there.

[alpha_helix]

Anyway, played BBCS recently. Arakune is pretty much fightable now. Blocking one of ara's dive is as good as blocking an ice car. when i tried, after blocking one dive, i could command A grab all the time. it may be that my opponent didnt know hwo to get out of it, or that it will definitely hit cause of the recovery time. clouds in the air do not hit anymore so its much safer to jump in especially for tager since i used to have problems avoiding clouds after i jump. which also means it is more possible to grab ara in the air. for now, i feel nu is still pretty much un approachable and the worse matchup in my opinion is ragna. His bnb averages out to a whooping 3.3k dmg and is able to start from many moves. as long as its an air combo, belial edge is possible.

[bjholmes2]

OK, I should have the rough guide up some time tomorrow.

[Tofu Warrior]

Here's an early match up chart posted by ryokoalways. It's interesting to see that Tager now has a favourable match up against Nu :lol::lol: If you're putting it in the guide, be sure to date it so we can compare the evolution of match ups in the future: Tager Match-up diagram: In this order- Ragna(darkness), Jin(ice), Noel(gun), Tager(magnetism), Taokaka(cat), Rachel(umbrella), Arakune(Bug), Litchi(staff), Carl(neesan), Bang(ninja), Hakumen(face), Nu(nu), Tsubaki(wtf does that kanji have to do with anything), Hazama(snake) ＼ |闇|||氷|||銃|||磁|||猫|||傘|||蟲|||棒|||姉|||忍|||面|||Λ|||溜 |||蛇| 磁|4.0||4.5||5.5||-.-||4.0||6.5||5.0||4.0||3.5||3.5||4.5||6.0||6.0||4.5 | vs ragna- Nerf on backstep, Ragna's staying firepower and same defensive problems. Disadvantage vs jin- Problems remain from CT. Damage reduction turns this into slight disadvantage. vs noel- Noel's good moves got nerfed, but still has trouble facing off against Noel's air moves. But better AA and D moves along with sledge makes this slight advantage. vs Taokaka- If you can catch tao, there is no problem, big if. Disadvantage. Rachel- nerfed to hell. Can reversal on reaction to many of rachel's zone moves. Big advantage. Arakune- Depends on who gets magnetism/curse out. Arakune has firepower advantage, but magnetism limits arakune's already limited movement options. Even Litchi- still hard match-up, Litchi also got better at close combat. Disadvantage. Carl- Stuck inbetween carl and nirvana still suck ass, so no major change here. Big disadvantage. Bang- better pressure off neutral, new super, furinkazan, nail pressure. Probably worst match-up thus far. Big disadvantage/ Hakumen- Hard to get in range, but spark's faster charge helps greatly. AA got better too. Slight disadvantage. Nu- If tager gets in he can win in one go. Nu's firepwoer decrease also helps. Advantage. Tsubaki- easy to lock down, reversal is projectile property, low firepower, low reach. currently advantage Hazama- can't keep up on wake-up (in defensive position), hard to track down. But low firewpower. Currently slight disadvantage.

[Tofu Warrior]

Still hate us?

I never hated Arakune, Rachel, Carl or Nu players, no one's forcing me to play Tager .

The match up is a lot more even now though; you actually have to work and I don't have to work so hard.

[Skye]

I expected the match up to be like this, it'll be interesting at the least.

[ShinsoBEAM]

Not what we were hoping for but still its way way better than CT.

[Tofu Warrior]

Spirit Juice posted an easier to read version of the match up chart, but it stretches the screen.

[Waks]

Looks like it will be mostly an uphill battle again :/ Hopefully things will get better when the game progresses. At least, its not that bad compared to CT.

[Henaki]

tager is always going to lose to carl unless carl is nerfed to oblivion and becomes unplayable. 2 characters > grappler. shit slash eddie was a slightly bad matchup for pot and pot was one of the betterish characters in slash (high mid or low top) and slash eddie was pretty garbage. regardless, i just hope the carl/bang matchup get a little bit better. i dont mind working in uphill matchups. i played urien for like 3 years and hes like 4-6 across the board vs top tier in 3s. my arcade should have the game in a couple of weeks... sigh...

[Brother Mojo]

Saw a nice combo in the third match of this vid. Apparently, if you land Atomic Collider as a starter, you can:

623C, j.C (whiff), lowest j.2C, 2B 2C xx 623C, j.C (whiff), lowest j.2C xx 22D

3.2k meterless damage into Gadget mixups. Looks like it'd work on basically the whole cast, too, but it'd require some testing. In the match it's against Taokaka.

EDIT: Wow, even more hilarious... in the vid it was escapable after the first hit, but could probably work off of a lowest j.2C:

With magnetism, (lowest?) j.2C, 2B 2C xx 623C, 623C whiff, 6B 2C xx 623C, j.C (whiff), j.2C xx 22D

Comedy goldmine. 3.9k of comedy gold, also meterless.

[Henaki]

also 5c 6a collider, collider (whiff) 6B 2C collider, jC (whiff) latest j2c works. 3.4k for anti backdash. nice.

[ryokoalways]

According to the announcer, collider's head invincibility wears off once the hit comes out. Just an FYI.